Praying for persecution

sermonindex May 4, 2014

Since it is generally known that the church thrives amid persecution, we could pray for it so the American church could thrive, but the percentage that would is likely to be low unless that persecution brings with it an economic collapse times worse than the Great Depression and an EMP event. That would silence the machines and limit the distractions. Then, maybe, we could hear God well enough that He could stoke a hunger for His Word and for communion with Him in prayer that is stronger than we’ve ever known.

While it is unlikely most of us would pray sincerely for persecution, God is leading the persecuted church to see our need and pray on our behalf.

The following, from China, was posted in October 2005:

How should American Christians pray for the church in China? So asked the reporter from the Baptist mission board, ending his interview with a leader of the Chinese house-church movement.

His subject answered, "Stop praying for persecution in China to end." He added, "It is through persecution that the church has grown."

The leader of the underground church then added something else: "We, in fact, are praying that the American church might taste the same persecution so revival would come to the American church like we have seen in China."

And more recently, in November 2012, from North Korea:

In a media release, Reverend Eric Foley, CEO of Seoul USA, says he was surprised when he first asked members of the North Korean underground church how Americans could pray for them.

"They answered, 'You pray for us? We pray for you!' When I asked why, they responded, 'Because Western Christians often put so much faith in their prosperity and political freedoms that they don't know what it's like to have to depend completely on God. And because of that, they often do not get to know him in all the ways he invites us to.'"

Of course, we still should pray for the persecuted church.We can also join in the prayers offered up by the persecuted church for the church in America ”“ if we dare.

from: http://www.dothnet.net/content/persprosp.php

sermonindex May 4, 2014

G D
There are Christians in Russia, they meet underground.
C G
In China, they're killed when they're found.
G D
And in Cuba the Christians live up in the hills
C G
Because it's not safe in the town.

C G
And to think it might happen right here in America,
D G
I know you think it's not true.
C G
But it's happening to Christians right here in America,
D G
Wait till it happens to you.

from: http://www.onlyvisiting.com/gallery/guitar/america.html

P

proudpapa May 4, 2014

John 15 :
18 If the world hate you, ye know that it hated me before it hated you.
19 If ye were of the world, the world would love his own: but because ye are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.
20 Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also.
21 But all these things will they do unto you for my name's sake, because they know not him that sent me.

I am not so sure that the Bible teaches us to pray for persecution but I must admitt that the Bible seems to clearly teach that persecution is part of the normal Christian life.

Thankyou for preparing us for the normal Christial life.

N

narrowpath May 4, 2014

I understand the dynamics of persecution producing more godliness in the saints, but nowhere in the bible are we asked to pray the Lord to have us persecuted. On the contrary:

1 Timothy 2

2 Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men, 2 for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, 4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

We must learn to take the opportunities we have while we are still relatively free in our religious expression. It is our obligation to contribute to the common good of all people. Asking for persecution is as if a son asks his father to discipline him. No-no, it is much better to do what we are supposed to do than to misbehave and accept discipline.

1 Peter 2:20
For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God.

Saints in countries that persecuted Christians are under push forces. We here in the West are under pull forces.
The same satanic force, just a different application. Perhaps it takes more resolve to prosper spiritually under freedom than under persecution.

We must learn to grasp the opportunities given to us know, regardless if we are persecuted or in liberty.

N

narrowpath May 4, 2014

deleted double submission

Y

yuehan May 5, 2014

Echoing narrowpath's comments, KingJimmy had discussed why praying for persecution is unbiblical in an earlier thread:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?mode=viewtopic&topic_id=51595&forum=35&start=0&viewmode=flat&order=0

When discussing persecution, I believe it is dangerous to focus on persecution in itself without focusing on Christ. It would only breed fear, without offering any notion of divine strength or hope.

The truth is that unless one fixes their mind on Christ, it would be very difficult to overcome adversity (be it nationwide persecution or other forms of individual suffering). Indeed, in John 16:33 - Christ reminds us that in spite of our troubles, He has overcome the world. He's telling us to look up, to look to Him!

The best way to prepare someone for the prospect of future persecution is thus to encourage them to focus not on their circumstances, but on Christ Himself - who is the source of all joy, hope and strength.

The wonderful thing is that we can learn to trust Christ and His love for us whatever situation we find ourselves in. It doesn't take persecution to bring that about, and is in fact the normal Christian life.

K

KPYee May 5, 2014

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

K

KPYee May 5, 2014

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

K

KPYee May 5, 2014

The Bible asked us to rejoice in trials and tribulations for the reason that it will purge and refine us to be a more suitable vessel for his cause . Persecution is certainly a form of trial and tribulation . So praying for it isnt unfounded on the Bible . Paul said "My strength is made perfect in weakness" Anything that will bond us more closely to Christ should be welcomed by the Christians. Especially so when we consider it will have the effect of rousing nonchalant saints to become passionate for Him . Persecution if it happens will save many currently lackadaisical souls from hell . So is it wrong to pray for it..?

Nevertheless I think its not necessary to pray for it . Persecution will arise on its own when enough Christians are lukewarm. If we dont overcome sin, sin and its agents will overpower us. Persecution then becomes inevitable

Y

yuehan May 5, 2014

Why not just leave it to God to decide the means by which He chooses to purify His vessels?

When religious persecution is spoken of as *needed* for the purifying of the believer and the church at large, I cannot help but wonder if these ideas for spiritual growth belong to man rather than to God (I'm not aware of any biblical backing for such views). If one truly believes that, he is certainly invited to board the next flight to North Korea or Saudi Arabia.

Praying for persecution is similar to praying specifically for personal trials, poverty, and cancer so that we could draw nearer to Christ. I have prayed that I would know Christ more and that He become my only desire, but I don't pray for Him to use specific means to accomplish those ends.

God's ways and not our ways, His thoughts are not our thoughts (Isaiah 55). We do not need to instruct Him as to how He should exercise His sovereignty. God knows best and is in full control of our circumstances, and I am content in that.

L

Lordoitagain May 5, 2014

An interesting thing to inject in this discussion is the fact that Jesus prayed: "Father if it be possible let this cup pass from me, nevertheless not my will but thine be done." when he was about to face the worst for us.

If we sincerely pray: "Thy will be done" ... we are praying most appropriately. If in His omniscience He deems persecution as the most glorifying to Him ... may His perfect will be done. If He determines otherwise ... His will be done.

D

dolfan May 5, 2014

I could be wrong but when I read the initial post I sensed a tongue in cheek to the suggestion of praying for persecution. But, it caused me to keep reading, and the point is well taken.

Persecuted people sometimes view us as lacking and pray for us instead of asking for our prayers. Some of them see what we are too blinded by pride, affluence and cares of this life to see. And, because of this blindness, we are the real darkness and not they in the lands of their persecutors.

I think the opening paragraph is an honest effort to be ironic and not an actual urging to pray for persecution. At least that is how I understood it.

K

KingJimmy May 5, 2014

While I gladly accept persecution when it comes, and believe God can do great things through a persecuted church, persecution is not something we should actively pray for and seek. Indeed, Jesus said that though we would be persecuted, when we are, we are to flee to the next city. In other words , don't seek to stay around and be persecuted some more.

We pray thy kingdom come, thy will be done.

K

KingJimmy May 5, 2014

As it is, honestly, how do we in fact know that persecuted Christians in China are walking close with the Lord? Such notions smack of misty-eyed romanticism instead of reality. It might make for a good Ravenhill sermon, but it is frankly just bad theology.

Case in point, look at some such as Witness Lee and his movement. If anything they prove that some in China are damnable heretics, and persecution has done little to redeem them. In China you find every problem the church in America has... except maybe bad PowerPoint slides.

They are no better off than us. They are just as blessed as us.

I dare say Christians in China are no more blessed or better off than us in the West. My level of blessing doesn't have much to do with my geography or whether or not somebody has a knife to my throat. I am blessed to the degree I have been made to sit in heavenly places with Christ, and have been blessed with every spiritual blessing. I have been granted by his grace, everything pertaining to life and godliness.

*edited*

A

AbideinHim May 5, 2014

I agree with Narrow Path and Savanna. We
pray for those in authority so that we would
live quite and peaceable lives.

We don't need to pray for persecution
because it comes with the territory. "All
those that live godly in Christ Jesus shall
suffer persecution." (2Timothy 3:12).

"If they have persecuted me, they will
persecute you also." ( John 15:20)

We pray that the Church would be purified
and The Lord will send the refining fire
that will get the job done. Judgement
begins first in the house of God.

Mike

sermonindex May 5, 2014

And Jimmy how do you know that those in persecuted lands are NOT walking close to the Lord? It has been said that one hour spent in the presence of someone who has suffered for Christ in a persecuted nation will expose shallowness of our Western faith.

I think your assessment of the persecuted church is a bit simplistic I might add brother a little unrealistic.

Blaine

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TMK May 5, 2014

Hi Bear---

I think part of the problem at least for me is the perception that if we are not being persecuted or threatened on a daily basis that we should feel guilty about it. I am sorry about the persecution in Iraq and China but praise God I am not living there. If what you all are saying about persecution is correct then we will be experiencing it here soon enough.

In other words it is not my fault that we in the states are not persecuted like those elsewhere. That is Gods call, not mine. Yes we should be praying for them of course and we need to be ready. But we don't need to feel condemned because we are fortunate enough to be relatively free from persecution here.

D

dolfan May 5, 2014

We can make persecution an idol in a weird way.

The saints of the NT church exalted Jesus, not persecution. In fact, Paul gives a lot of "buts" in 2 Cor. 4 to describe how persecuted but not forsaken/abandoned they were. Of course, the persecuted church, real as it is, is not to blame for any romanticizing of it we Americans may do. But, we do glam it up in our minds.

Lord help us to endure our own self inflicted illusions and to see Your light. We dishonor You and Yours when we imagine vainly that the persecuted are somehow immune to temptation, reach super-spiritual status, or are closer to You because of persecution. At the same time, I thank You Lord that You have given them gold purified by fire, that they have in some measure we don't know overcome sin due to suffering in their bodies, that they do not reject You, and that You are glorified by them. I pray that they will endure to the end in faithfulness and truth. I pray that you will wake us from our slumber and revive us still. Cleanse and purify us, O Lord.

T

TMK May 5, 2014

Amen!!

Z

ZekeO May 5, 2014

Persecution for born again believers come because of the testimony of Jesus Christ.