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Theology

Mark of the Beast

T
TMK May 8, 2014

In Rev 13 John tells HIS READERS that if they have wisdom they can figure out who the Beast is by calculating the number of his name.

If the Beast was some future person wasn't John deceiving HIS READERS? After all his letter was addressed to actual churches in his day.

How in the world do we get from the apostle warning HIS READERS about things going on during that time, to the idea that that passage is talking about some future person over 2000 years removed from the time of that writing? Who made that leap? One would never reach that conclusion by simply reading the text without importing all kinds of presuppositions into it.

(P.S. "Caesar Nero" calculated out= 666)

M
MrBillPro May 8, 2014

Maybe he was prophesying.

R
rainydaygirl May 8, 2014

by MrBillPro on 2014/5/8 12:41:24

Maybe he was prophesying.

----


i so love this reply!! great response, one i can give an amen too.

rdg

T
TMK May 8, 2014

Well gee, Bill I suppose he could have been. But the tenor of the book is urgency, with words like "soon" and "quickly" used with some regularity. At least some of the churches he was writing to were in real persecution and real dire straits. Soon they would all be. Then.

What about the text, read alone, makes you, or anyone, think that it is talking about something thousands of years in the future? There must be something.

Here is the text: "Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666."

Why would John be telling his readers, who he was trying to tip off or warn, about figuring out the name of some diabolical ruler 1000s of years after they were dead? In other words, he is inviting and even encouraging his contemporary readers to try to determine who the Beast is. Isn't he?

And, like I indicated, he did tip them off. "Caesar Nero" has the numerical equivalent of 666.

D
drifter May 8, 2014

On the pope's hat it says in Latin "Vicarius Filii Dei" which means the Vicar of Christ. This adds up to 666. The pope takes the title of "Holy Father", and when he speaks "ex-cathedra", he is supposedly speaking for the Holy Spirit. So he is, in effect, taking all the titles of the Godhead. Even in official catholic doctrine, the priest, when performing the mass, or "transubstantiation", is becoming Christ for that moment. "And here is the mind which hath wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth." Revelation 17:9 The Vatican is the only city on earth which sits on seven hills. "And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour" Revelation 17:4 These are the official colours of the catholic church. "And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH." Revelation 17:5 Roman catholicism incorporates pagan deities from ancient Babylon, which are given new names, i.e. Venus is the Virgin Mary, etc. The catholic church is the only religious organization which officially calls itself "mother". "And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth." Revelation 17:18 The catholic church has untold power and wealth, and historically has controlled kings and countries. "And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus." Revelation 17:6 The catholic church has murdered true christians by inquisition for 1700+ years, from 1200 to 1800 A.D. they slaughtered over 68 million christians all over the world. Is there any need to go on?

H
havok20x May 8, 2014

TMK,

I do believe you are correct--partially.

As with many, many, many prophecies in the OT (and why should it be different now?) there are dual fulfillments. The first is immediate and confirms what is being said. The second is future.

Here are some examples:

1) In Isaiah 7 the virgin birth and coming of immanuel was prophesied in Isaiah. It was immediatelty fulfilled by a the birth of Isaiah's son. But it was totally fulfilled by the birth of Jesus.

2) Hosea 11 says, "I called my son out of egypt." The immediate reference was to Israel coming out of egypt, but the total fulfillment of it was when Jesus and his family left Egypt.

3) David says in the Psalms, "My God! My God! Why have you forsaken me?" But the real fulfillment was when Jesus died on the cross.

Again and again this happens. All Scripture is for all believers. Revelation would have no significance for believers if it was only about Nero. He was most certainly a foreshadowing of the Anti-Christ, but the real fulfillment of that prophecy is yet to come.

L
Lysa May 8, 2014


TMK,

Are you a preterist? I only ask because I was investigating Steve Gregg and while reading his biography came across his interest in preterism and I looked it up. And on wikipedia, I found almost the same thing that you posted, here it is:

Notes:
Whose name, written in Aramaic, can be valued at 666, using the Hebrew numerology of gematria), a manner of speaking against the emperor without the Roman authorities knowing. Also "Nero Caesar" in the Hebrew alphabet is נרון קסר NRWN QSR, which when used as numbers represent 50 200 6 50 100 60 200, which add to 666. The Greek term χάραγμα (charagma, "mark" in Revelation 13:16) was most commonly used for imprints on documents or coins.

I'm not trying to start trouble, I'm just trying to understand where you are coming from in some of your posts!

God bless,
Lisa

P
proudpapa May 8, 2014

very well said, havok20x


from a secular source : "The Christians saw in Nero the Antichrist, and also believed that as such he would come again."

http://armstrongeconomics.com/research/monetary-history-of-the-world/roman-empire/chronology_-by_-emperor/imperial-rome-julio-claudian-age/nero-54-68-ad/

M
MrBillPro May 8, 2014

Lysa, with folks Like Pat Robinson not just picking on Pat, also many others, I could see why some folks might be preterist's. I don't know of any new day prophecies that have been fulfilled, unless it's the one prophecy were Israel will be restored as a nation in the last generation, this happened in 1948. Problem with all this is, the end is not here yet, so there could still be many true prophets arise and prophesize things to come, that actually happen.

T
TMK May 8, 2014

Hi Lysa--

I am not sure what I am to be honest- other than I am no longer a dispensationalist.

Steve Gregg is a partial preterist; he believes the second coming of Christ is still future but believes that many of the prophecies in Rev and the Olivet discourse have been fulfilled. Hank Hanegraaf of the Bible Answer Man show is also a partial preterist- he wrote a book called "The Apocalypse Code" that explains his views; I believe that RC Sproul is partial preterist as well. It seems the mainstream evenagelical leaders that came out of Moody and Dallas are pre-tribbers.

At best I am a partial preterist. I don't believe in the "left behind" scenario- although when those books came out I did. However, I am not totally against the idea that things might get really bad before Jesus returns. I don't believe in literal locusts with long hair and stuff like that but it might get nasty. I don't believe the mark of the beast is a literal mark because it is a parody of the Mark of God described in Exodus, etc that also was not a literal mark. I remember the old cheesy movie "A Distant Thunder" that they used to show in church in the 70s to scare people to death. It was kind of creepy- but definitely cheesy.

When I found Steve Gregg's website and started listening to his lectures, I was shocked because I never heard of any other end times explanations than what I grew up with. Of course he does not only teach on end times, he does verse by verse lectures of all the books of the Bible and has a lot of topical lectures. I really like listening to him and have learned a lot.

sermonindex May 8, 2014

The book of Revelation begins with the words "That which was, which is and which is to come" so I suppose from that we have past, present and future with John writing in approximately 96 AD being the axis. Thus that which "was" has already past, that which "is" speaks of the time of John and that which "is to come" speaks of all that which proceeds John. As John was the last of the twelve apostles it seems reasonable that he would have been the one chosen of the Lord Himself to make these things available to the church in that authority as one who was with the Lord, beginning at the baptism of John and being witnesses of His death and resurrection etc.

As far as who the beast is John says that he is, was, is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss. So again we can easily see that the beast (who is a man) was no longer alive though he had lived before John writing in 96 AD, that he was not alive in 96 AD and that he will come up out of the abyss at some unspecified date after 96 AD.

Again as for the more biographical information we have of this man (the beast) we read that he is one of seven kings, and will be an eight king as well. So he was a king, being one of seven kings, and he will become an eight king. There are seven kings but one of these kings reigns twice. Finally we are told biographically that the number of his name is 666. Given that John clearly expected the reader at that time to comprehend who he was speaking about and that the term king is derived from the latin "Caesar" it isn't too difficult to accept that John was writing about one of seven men who were Caesars (kings). Nor is it difficult to know which one of these Caesars he was writing about.


Augustus (Imp. Caesar Augustus)\t 27 BC-AD 14
Tiberius (Ti. Caesar Augustus)\t AD 14-37
Gaius / Caligula (C. Caesar Augustus Germanicus)\t 37-41
Claudius (Ti. Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus)\t 41-54
Nero (Imp. Nero Claudius Caesar Augustus Germanicus)\t 54-68
Galba (Ser. Sulpicius Galba Imp. Caesar Augustus)\t 68-69
Otho (Imp. M. Otho Caesar Augustus)\t 69
Vitellius (A. Vitellius Augustus Germanicus Imp.)\t 69
Vespasian (Imp. Caesar Vespasianus Augustus)\t 69-79
Titus (Imp. Titus Caesar Vespasianus Augustus)\t 79-81
Domitian (Imp. Caesar Domitianus Augustus)\t 81-96


Of the twelve Caesars who reigned up to and including 96 AD, Julius Caesar was the first, and in 44 BC, the year he was assassinated, he declared himself god. His adopted son Octavian didn't become Caesar until he had fought a number of civil wars and so there was a gap of 17 years between the death of Julius Caesar and the declaration of Augustus Caesar (Octavian). Thereafter the Caesars reigned until the end of the first century, technically ending with Domitian as the last (Prophetic) Caesar and the one who sentenced John to the labour mine on Patmos where he wrote the book of Revelation in his last year of imprisonment. Of the twelve (Prophetic) line of Caesars seven spoke as god and five did not speak as god. The sixth (measured from Julius) or the fifth (measured from Augustus) was Nero and he is the last of the Julio-Claudian line. After Nero there were four men who became Caesar in a single 12 month period, the last of which was Vespasian. who was Caesar for ten years and was replaced by Domitian was the last of the (prophetic) caesars.

Therefore when John was writing from his imprisonment on the Island of Patmos he was writing in the reign of Domitian who had banished him there. Thus when it is written:

""The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to come up out of the abyss and go to destruction. And those who dwell on the earth, whose name has not been written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, will wonder when they see the beast, that he was and is not and will come. "Here is the mind which has wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits, and they are seven kings; five have fallen, one is, the other has not yet come; and when he comes, he must remain a little while. "The beast which was and is not, is himself also an eighth and is one of the seven, and he goes to destruction. "The ten horns which you saw are ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they receive authority as kings with the beast for one hour. "These have one purpose, and they give their power and authority to the beast.” (Revelation 17:8”“13, NASB95)


.....we are told plainly (at the time John was writing) that of these seven kings, five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. I will leave you to work out who he is then from this information. The key is that he is a prophetic king because he speaks as god. It is clear and cannot be shaken. The key to understanding who the beast of Revelation 17:8 is as a future event from the time of John (after the destruction of Jerusalem of course) is that not only is he one of the seven, the seventh of which had not yet come, but he was the fifth of these seven and also an eighth.


Just to add a curious fact, this prophecy which John says attends to wisdom also mentions ten kings. At the moment there are nine reigning Monarchs in Europe in the dominion of the old Roman Empire. The tenth and the oldest Monarch in Europe is of course The Pope.

From The Vatican State Official Website:

Vatican City State is governed as an absolute monarchy. The Head of State is the Pope who holds full legislative, executive and judicial powers.

On the basis of this the Pope cannot be the beast of revelations 17:8. Still he is a curious fella!

T
TMK May 8, 2014

Havok-

I get the dual fulfillment thing- but how do you know which will have a dual fulfillment and which won't? I guess one way is to wait and see what happens- then one can say that something had a dual fulfillment. We can do that with the messianic prophecies because looking back we can see that Jesus fulfilled them. Not sure how we can do that with the "prophecies" in Rev.

Does anything in the texts in revelation require that we take them as dual prophecies? It is not necessarily fair to say it is because some of the crazy things mentioned in Rev haven't happened yet-- because the language in Rev is so symbolic and apocalyptic in nature that we can not expect literal fulfillments.

For example, in the Olivet Discourse, Jesus says "they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" so people conclude that He could not have been talking-- at least at this point in the discourse- about the destruction of the temple and the sacking of Jerusalem in 70 AD. However, in the OT the Lord is often said to be "coming" in judgment- In Is. 19 he is even coming on a cloud. So there is no reason to think that Jesus- in the Olivet discourse- was talking about anything other than the coming judgment and destruction of Jerusalem.

T
TMK May 8, 2014

Hello Andrew-

Obviously preterists (partial or otherwise) disagree with that late date of the writing of Rev. The late date is by no means conclusive; if it was a slam dunk, any preterist argument would crumble. At least that is my understanding.

sermonindex May 8, 2014

Oh I know that John. It is an easy thing to dismiss most things if we intellectualise them too much. On the other hand we have The Spirit of God by which to comprehend these things if we have a need to comprehend them.

They key is not in the date of 96 AD or as early as the reign of Nero. However the understanding lays in the man and not in the date. Think about it!

H
havok20x May 8, 2014

Here is the OP
*****************************
"In Rev 13 John tells HIS READERS that if they have wisdom they can figure out who the Beast is by calculating the number of his name.

If the Beast was some future person wasn't John deceiving HIS READERS? After all his letter was addressed to actual churches in his day.

How in the world do we get from the apostle warning HIS READERS about things going on during that time, to the idea that that passage is talking about some future person over 2000 years removed from the time of that writing? Who made that leap? One would never reach that conclusion by simply reading the text without importing all kinds of presuppositions into it.

(P.S. "Caesar Nero" calculated out= 666)"
*****************************

Here is the actual set of Scriptures we are looking at:

"Then I saw another beast coming up out of the earth, and he had two horns like a lamb and spoke like a dragon. And he exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence, and causes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. He performs great signs, so that he even makes fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth by those signs which he was granted to do in the sight of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who was wounded by the sword and lived. He was granted power to give breath to the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak and cause as many as would not worship the image of the beast to be killed. He causes all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and slave, to receive a mark on their right hand or on their foreheads, and that no one may buy or sell except one who has the mark or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Here is wisdom. Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for it is the number of a man: His number is 666"


********************************

Okay, so let's talk about the charge of deception that has been laid on John the Apostle.

First and foremost by nature prophecy is a future event, not a current event. The book of Revelation calls itself prophetic 5 times (1 time in chapter 1 and 4 times in chapter 22). Not only that, but was Isaiah deceptive when he prophesied something that would not be fulfilled in his life. What about Daniel? What about when Moses told about the coming prophet, like him?

Also, but your paraphrase of what John was saying is wrong. John wasn't saying, "Hey guys, this stuff is really obvious. You should be able to figure it out if you're smart enough." All wisdom is given by God.

Also, this wasn't John's book to the churches. This was a revelation from God to the churches. Again, this isn't John's personal account to us. That isn't how Scripture is. Scripture is given by God for His children. There is nothing written anywhere in the Bible that was for that specific time only. Absolutely nothing.

Not only that, but no one has fulfilled the context of the scriptures. No one up to this point at least.

"One would never reach that conclusion by simply reading the text without importing all kinds of presuppositions into it."

I disagree. Revelation says itself it is future.

T
twayneb May 8, 2014

TMK

I think part of the problem, especially with eschatology, is that we make up our mind and adopt a viewpoint and from that moment on we dogmatically attempt to defend the viewpoint we have adopted. "I am a preterist." "I am a pretribber." Should we not rather say, "I am a student of the word of God who will continue to seek for understanding." Remember, the Magi sought to understand the word of God and were led by their study and by the Holy Spirit to the conclusion that Jesus was born in Bethlehem. This study led them to make connections between the prophetic evidence and the signs that God placed in the heavens through the heavenly bodies that He had created for that purpose.

As I read this thread I was prompted to quickly read through most of the book of Joel. Remember that Peter, at the day of Pentecost, claimed the outpouring of the Holy Spirit to be a fulfillment of the latter portion of Joel 2. And yet there are prophecies in the book of Joel that have yet to be fulfilled. One prophet foretelling coming events that would span over 2000 years of our own history. Andrew makes a good point. There are times that prophecy is date specific, and there are times when it is event specific. When we speak of the anti-Christ, we are dealing with the emergence of a man and a system.

God is not limited to time; He created time for us to live in. Peter tells us in 2 Peter, in the context of the timing of the events of the end, that God's timetable does not look like we might think it should, but His promises are absolutely sure.

We know the times and seasons in which we live. We can tell from world events that we are living in the last of the last days. But we cannot know the day nor the hour of the coming of the Son of Man. We need to diligently search the word of God, but we need to hold our eschatological opinions somewhat loosely. All will become more and more clear as the hour approaches.

sermonindex May 8, 2014

Just to make my point a little further.

Clearly I believe in the late date for the book of Revelation. This is primarily because of Justin Martyr (c. 100”“165 AD), Irenaeus (c. 115”“202) Theophilus (died c. 183), and Tertullian (c. 160”“220).

I have come to see that the understanding does not lay in the date however. It lays in the character of the man himself. Apart from this there are two beasts of Revelation and we need to differentiate between them. The job of the second beast is essentially to provide a prophetic office for the acceptance and worship of the beast who comes into visibility as the anti-christ during the latter part of the tribulation.

This does not change however that the first beast who is the anti-christ has a definite pedigree and character. His biographical pedigree is that he is one who comes up out of the abyss. As such he is in effect in death. The only two men who qualify in history generally at this time of the first century for a part in this blasphemy are Judas and Nero. Both committed suicide and therefore cut their lives short by their own hand. Judas as the prophetic voice and Nero as the blasphemous man. It is the blasphemous man who is the one that matters. The false prophet doesn't requires anyone to worship him. He simply displays supernatural power as though heaven itself were answering him, in order to deceive the nations into receiving the blasphemous man himself.

It is that man who is a king. Not only a king, but a king who lived in the first century, and died in the first century, as a king. Regardless as to the date of Revelation this man is the fifth of seven kings who lived and died in the first century, and he is also an eighth king. That of being an eighth points to coming up out of the abyss.

Speaking of the second beast we read:

"He exercises all the authority of the first beast in his presence. And he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast, whose fatal wound was healed.” (Revelation 13:12, NASB95)

The term in his presence cannot be figurative it can only mean that they exist at some point in time together. It is the personal character of the first beast which identifies him and that character is essentially blasphemous. The character of the false prophet on the other hand is to blaspheme. These are two very different things. Not only this we cannot change the scripture. If the scripture tells us that the beast is a man, then we cannot change that to mean something figurative. Remember that it is a man and the number of his name simply speaks of his name. Who he is in reality is unimportant. What matters is that he is a man. Likewise if the false prophet (the second beast) is a blasphemer because he incites others to worship the first beast, then it is the first beast who is blasphemous by receiving the worship of god to himself.

Taking that distinction and applying it to the Caesars makes the name of the man less important than the fact that he is a man and one who has lived, died and comes up out of the abyss. If we remove the symbolism where it needs to be removed then the name of the man is unimportant to us today. Its importance was relevant to the day in which it was written. In this sense Nero qualifies on both counts. Whether he was the 6th Caesar from Julius or the fifth from Augustus (Octavius) he qualifies. You have to realise that even if the book of Revelation was written just one year after the death of Nero, then Nero qualifies. Not only this but there has been just one historical early source which has informed the earlier date and this attends to the Old Syriac Texts from the second century.

For me at least the one certainty is that the beast is a man. He is not a picture of something or a symbol of something. The scriptures state explicitly that he is a man. As Revelation has these two beasts acting in concert, the one inciting worship and the other receiving worship then it seem just as likely that the second beast is also a man. Whether the first beast is Nero and the second is Judas rests not on a date, but on that which was known about him in his lifetime. He is the only Caesar who was worshipped as a god, and was also called in his own day the beast. Judas in the books of Acts is said to have gone unto his own place when he killed himself. How many men have their own place reserved for them in death? No doubt the really difficult thing in all of this is to comprehend how either Nero or Judas could be found on the earth at the end of the age as living breathing men.

M
MrBillPro May 8, 2014

I wonder if God really expected us to all be able to interpret and figure out his word completely. If he did, his expectations of us sure fell short, my guess is he made his word so difficult for us to understand, that he knew it would be a way for him to keep us in his word. So if it's possible that he made portions of his word so difficult that we would never understand, isn't it possible, that some his word we will just not ever understand? My guess is there is not one person on the face of this earth, that can interpret every scripture in the word of God perfectly, to what God was saying, but I am guessing there are millions upon millions of opinions on scripture meanings.

D
davidc May 9, 2014

Thank you Andrew for your insight into these matters; why has no-one ever explained these things before so clearly regarding the seven prophetic kings? Have we all been blinkered?

I understand what you say regarding Judas; As you have before posted, Jesus calls him " the son of perdition" John 17 v12.

Paul however, in 2 Thess 2v3 speaks of "the man of sin being revealed, the son of perdition",

Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

This seems to point to the eighth king who is to come, as you said, the blasphemous one.

Is Paul here speaking of there being just one beast? I understand that when Paul wrote 2 Thess., Nero had not come on the scene; Paul had not yet had the pleasure of meeting him. That was to come later!!!!!

Much love

david

sermonindex May 9, 2014

Thank you Andrew for your insight into these matters; why has no-one ever explained these things before so clearly regarding the seven prophetic kings? Have we all been blinkered?

When I was writing the comment, (which incidentally is the first time I have used that term), my thought was simply a common sense idea. There were seven Caesars who were blasphemous men in the sense that they gave themselves titles and declared themselves to be a god. To be more specific it was the adopted son of Julius Caesar (Octavian) who became Augustus Caesar who claimed that Julius Caesar had entered heaven as god as evidenced by a star which shone over Rome for seven days in 44 BC. Halley later on during the time of Isaac Newton did the astronomical calculations which gave this star (comet) it present day name. In this context of being the son of a god, Augustus declared himself Pontifex Maximus or High Priest of all Rome. It also conferred on him the status of "son of a god". It has to be remembered that this is the man who ordered the census which led the infant Christ out of Egypt into the land of Israel. So Augustus Caesar just prior to the time Christ was born, had declared himself, in effect, to be the son of a god. On his death Augustus was declared to be a god.

This blasphemy and development of a man being a living god eventually culminated in Nero in his own life time demanding worship as god. In this sense he was exceptional because he had done nothing to warrant the claim, it was simply a conference of benefit passes down from his Julian ancestors. Yet he carried it off through oratory skills and musical abilities, in a prophetic gift. That is where my understanding comes from. Nero was said to have been a gifted musician, but his utter vanity meant that his gift became oppressive rather than genuinely entertaining. He was the last direct descendant of Julius Caesar to rule in Rome and he was depraved beyond words both in his private life and in the streets of Rome. In short he was a physical prophet led by Satan. Julius was assassinated because of his declaration to the title and privilege of Caesar for life in 44 BC. This is the beginning of the foundation of hereditary kingship in Rome. The heredity whilst it was in the blood line, never meant father to son, it always means blood relative to adopted son. Nero was the personification of all that effort and its eventual meaning. Satan simply needed the blood line through which he found a man willing to pursue that blasphemy of a man declaring himself god. This was Nero who heard the gospel by the hand of the apostle Paul directly and yet rejected the truth.

Again we need to remember that Jesus is of the blood line of David, and therefore a true king. So when Augustus was laying the foundation for the future Nero, leading up to the time that Christ was born, it was a foundation written in blood, which is the only true basis for earthly kingship. In the Lord of course this means a righteous reign. In the case of the Julio-Claudian line it meant unrighteousness. In Nero that blood line came to an end. Because Christ is raised from the dead His reign will have no end. The Julio-Claudian blood line runs from Julius through to Nero. But it was not a bloodline of father to son it began with Julius and passed to the great nephew Octavian (Augustus). To accomplish this in legal terms Octavian became the adopted son of Julius. As did Nero become the adopted son of Claudius through marriage.

It has to be said though that the really important meaning is none of these things. The important thing is to make the proper separation, between the ambitions of Satan and the heredity of men. The sixth king who followed the fifth king, and the seventh king who was to follow the sixth king were not of the Julio-Claudian blood line. Nero killed his only child in the womb when he kicked his second wife in the stomach whilst she was pregnant with his child. His first child either died in childbirth or shortly thereafter. This means that it is the "spiritual" relationship between these kings, in their specific characteristic and ambitions, especially their desire to be worshiped and to be called god, as well as their claim to being the son of a god, which sets them apart. In Christ the true King, the complete opposite attitude is presented. The Lord did not seek to be as God, but humbled Himself even unto death. Yet the Lord of course could claim equality with God.

That man-god which Satan was establishing as a basis for the anti-christ was Julius Caesar, as declared by his great nephew, the first Emperor of Rome, Augustus Caesar. In July of 44 BC a star was seen to shine brightly over Rome for seven days and this became associated through Octavian (Augustus) with the persona of Julius Caesar. Eventually he erected a temple in which he set up a blasphemous statue of Julius Caesar with a dish shaped canopy over his head, showing the "Julian Star" of 44 BC. Therefore the thing which connects the fifth king to the eight king is not the bloodline, it is the character of the fifth king specifically fulfilling in his person and life, the ambition of Augustus to worship a man as god. Nero became in his own day that man. It is a man who claims to be the son of a god and therefore a god himself.

According to Scripture the fifth king is also an eight king, therefore although the physical line was destroyed, the personality and experience which characterises the end time anti-christ is fully manifest in Nero Caesar himself. That is why I emphasise the prophetic character of the seven kings rather than concerning myself with the name of a man by means of a number. If I spent my time seeking to ratify prophecy and end time events based on anything other than a simple understanding I would regard that to be wrong. Best to keep it simple.

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