If you are amongst those on SI who concider yourself a part of the "remnant" seperated from any organized congregational/denomonational church ... Can i ask in clarification? ...- What does our Lord have you doing differently? ...- Are you in intercession for those you've left behind? ...- Or have they become out of sight out of mind, if so why, and do you think it justifiable in Christ to forget them?
RahmanI don't consider myself apart of the so called remnant. I believe that to be in the past as only a tenth of Israel was saved when the city was destroyed in 70A.D., thus out of 2 to 3 million jews only a tenth was saved (according to Josephus 90k)I truly believe that the ones God is "calling out" are no better than the rest, only that He has taken them aside to be trained for a greater work, for serving the body of Christ. In this hour, there is a great need for all the Apostolic ministries to be manifested. There are too few Apostles, few Prophets, some Evangelists and a mega dose of Pastors and teachers. Pastors and Teachers have taken the load while the other ministries have been neglected. I don't mean the hollywood Evangelists or Prophets, the land is filled with all kinds of them. But is there a prophet in the land that actually listens to God? I believe there is but they are the nobodies that God has hidden away for a time yet appointed.The five fold ministry MUST be activated once again for the perfection of the Church, so that the holy Spirit will bring it together in the unity of the faith."And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ"This is the Spirit's goal, UNTO A PERFECT MAN, UNTO THE MEASURE OF THE STATURE OF THE FULNESS OF CHRIST".I believe in the manifestation of the sons of God, manifesting on the earth in His body when He appears that is to say that He appears in His body, being grown up unto a perfect man. This is what it means when it says, "Christ in you the hope of Glory".So to get back to your question. There is no remnant tho my other brothers will contest this, which is ok.Why can't this be done in the local assembly is because this message will clash with the pastors agenda. Pastors today do not want their congregation to be any more then what they are now, serving the clergy with the tithes and offerings. They will knock down anyone who tries to disrupt their services. This is EXACTLY the picture when Jesus came on the scene in His day. The people were paying thier tithes and offerings, but they were not being taught the righteousness of the law. They were being taught something else, like the Purpose Driven Life, or name it and claim it- blab it and grab it. The Pharisees had a doctrine that was formed when that order came into existance which added to the Torah, that is why Jesus said to them, "You make void the scriptures because of your traditions". It is because God so loves His body that He is preparing those who will minister to those who have been longing for a true word to come forth that will seperate the sheep from the goats. When they will hear that word, they will cleave to it. They will know it is God speaking to them, they know His voice and none other they will follow. But this move of God will also take alot of religious minded people off guard, they will not want to be apart of this move, because it means to be completely sold out. Those whom we thought would receive this will reject it. Homosexuals, harlots and all manner of those of ill repute will embrace this. Karl
- What does our Lord have you doing differently? ...Right now, the only thing different for me, is that my focus is on my personal relationship with God, my Bible reading, meditations, and prayer. I have pulled out of all but one involvement in programs. I go to Sunday service, but no other midweek service, for lack of time. The thing is, I've realized that I can never really fulfill God's purpose for my life until I know him. Until I'm a friend of God, and until all my self interests have been put to death. I'm finding that this is a process. Meanwhile, the small, faint trickle has begun to flow out of my belly. Perhaps it will someday be a river.I've recently begun to realize how the organized church is actually a deterrant to people entering into to fellowship. They do that, instead of actually becoming involved in each other's lives. I long for true fellowship and I do have it with just a few.- Are you in intercession for those you've left behind? ...I do intercede for friends left behind. I think of them all the time, and I try to keep in touch with many of them by phone. - Or have they become out of sight out of mind, if so why, and do you think it justifiable in Christ to forget them?I don't forget them. I'm not like that. But, I don't "worry" about them either, not anymore. I used to, but I've realized that some of the separation I'm experiencing is simply that I have had to 'come out from among them', and some of it, God has shown me, is just plain persecution, and sometimes, I've had to repent. It's not all cut and dried. I'm glad I have lots of time to think and pray, because it takes time to examine one's own heart before God. God is in there like a professional investigator, going over my heart with a fine tooth comb, because one impurity can spoil what he's doing in the lives of others. I've been amazed and appalled at his findings. So, in answer to your question, I'm in a time of purifying and when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used.
Thank you Spitfire for answering for me and probably alot more. Your words brought comfort knowing that I am not the only one who is going thru this.Karl
Hi Rahman,Not sure what this will add, would agree with Dian and Karl here. I am glad that you did put the word remnant in quotes and think I get your drift here, but don't think a great majority are in favor of another title characterization.Read a brief article this morning, http://www.christianitytoday.com/history/newsletter/2005/apr15.html here is a bit;UPI religion columnist decries the shallow Christianity of those who neglect the past.Interview by Collin HansenUwe Siemon-Netto is religious-affairs editor and senior writer for United Press International. His distinguished journalism career began with covering the construction of the Berlin Wall in 1950 and included war reporting in Vietnam. He will soon leave his UPI position to pursue other journalistic opportunities or a teaching position. His columns on religion routinely indicate a strong appreciation for history—an admirable characteristic absent from many religion news writers.Without making too much of it, at one point he stated "Being a Lutheran..." and there was a sigh, I know we have been around this in various topics and could wish that denominations were only in emphasis of aspects of the whole of Christianity. Can't remember where but an author (Guiness?) awhile back had gone to the length of stating that he would prefer not even to be called a Christian any longer but "A follower of Jesus" just because of all that can be conjured up by the unbelieving world under that heading and really can you blame them? Just disciples ought to suffice...What I have been gleaning much from many and certainly from someone like Oswald Chambers is in this idea that we are sent out before we are even ready. It is a creeping of the world right into our own backyard that to have any patience whatsoever, to wait, to be prepared is something that is absurd. Surely it differs in each and everyone of us and that seems to be the problem. There is a platform and a program for everything under the sun, "One size fit's all" is a contradiction in terms from t-shirts to saints."Ushering souls into the Kingdom" how many times have we heard that, the 'body counts' that get trumpeted? How remarkably true is this parable:And he spake many things unto them in parables, saying, Behold, a sower went forth to sow; And when he sowed, some seeds fell by the way side, and the fowls came and devoured them up: Some fell upon stony places, where they had not much earth: and forthwith they sprung up, because they had no deepness of earth: And when the sun was up, they were scorched; and because they had no root, they withered away. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprung up, and choked them: But other fell into good ground, and brought forth fruit, some an hundredfold, some sixtyfold, some thirtyfold. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. Mat 13:3-9- What does our Lord have you doing differently? ...It is a good question brother and my hope is that it is just this ultimately; Being more than 'doing'.Not something you 'put on' like a jacket, but something you just are. That one might be able to look right past 'me' and see Him and to get to that point...So, in answer to your question, I'm in a time of purifying and when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used. ...is a pretty good summarization and yet perhaps maybe someone is getting helped by watching how something gets cleaned.Faith without works is dead and so is work without faith, work without life in it, work for merit and 'pay', work for all the wrong reasons. Something edgewise here if I can sneak it in... One of the reasons I have a problem with the idea of a 'tithe' as it is construed these days is that I think it enables a cop-out mindset, a sense of having done your 'duty' not to mention the idea that a reward is attached. The question that never seems to get asked is, would you do it for nothing, just out of sheer gratitude and then forget all about it? Really at the heart of it, it seems that a large part of Christianity has become just a tithe of life, 10% is enough. It seems we have become so results orientated that we cannot let go of everything and let the Lord do as He wishes in and through us... It is a great boon to know there are deep things to know. The curse of the majority of spiritual Christians is that they are too cocksure and certain there is nothing more to know than they know. That is spiritual insanity. The more we go on with God the more amazed we are at what there is to find out, until we begin to use the power God gives us to forget earthly things, to be carefully careless about them, but never careless about our relationship to God.Chambers, O- Are you in intercession for those you've left behind? ...Yes and no. In one sense it would be impossible to undertake every incident that comes across the gray matter between the ears, think the other Mike summed this up well in the thread on persecuted believers, it can become overwhelming if one is given to intercession in that mode of "praying without ceasing" (again, back to the thought of 'being'). Certainly we ought to be led by the Holy Spirit in all things, it would be remarkable if for those of us that have 'pulled out' (or is it led out?) to find some reality to all that we believe or had been led to believe now becomes a 'we/they' construct. If that is so then we would be missing the point altogether. Sorry, not trying to be evasive but have been finding that much of what men, even good men with good intentions think 'we' ought to be doing can still get stonewalled by what the Lord would have us do individually. Yes of course I pray for them when it comes to mind, but that's the point, they are not 'them', they are us... just as the persecuted, just as the neighbor, the lady at the grocery store, the poor man that breaks your heart after you give him what you have and still feel that you have done nothing."Until you have stopped trying to be good and being pleased with the evidences of holiness in yourself, you will never open the wicket gate that leads to the more excellent way. The life “hid with Christ in God”—that is the more excellent way. You can never talk of Jesus Christ in the light of any one virtue, if you do, you feel you have not described Him; you can only talk of Him as the Bible does—God-Man. When we describe men we have to mention some particular virtue. People who deal with Bible characters are inclined to fix on some virtue which becomes rotten before the end of the life. When the Spirit of God has His way with us we go on till there is only one thing left—“they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.” In evangelical work it is not preaching holiness, or sanctification, or bodily healing, it is preaching Christ Jesus, “I, if I be lifted up, . . . will draw all men unto Me.”Watch the corruption of the natural virtues in yourself. We have to learn that most insufferably difficult lesson that God never patches up our natural virtues, because our natural virtues can never come anywhere near what Jesus Christ wants. Over and over again men and women are so troubled at finding their natural virtues break down that they dare not say a word about it to themselves, let alone to anyone else. The reason for it is that God wants to get us out of the love of virtue and in love with the God of virtue—stripped of all possessions but our knowledge of Him.Oswald Chambers
Brother Karl ...i thank you for your insights and especially this comment which i addressed on another thred ..."I truly believe that the ones God is "calling out" are no better than the rest, only that He has taken them aside to be trained for a greater work, for serving the body of Christ"It sums up what i hope anyone who might concider themselves a part of the "remnant" dare not think, that somehow they're just a little bit better ... Amen that if God calls you out He's recruiting you for His special ops to send you back in to do major damage to the wolves perpetrating in sheeps clothing ... Here are a few other things that stuck out to me in your post and tells me that you've already got your spiritual night vision goggles ...Quote;"Pastors and Teachers have taken the load while the other ministries have been neglected. I don't mean the hollywood Evangelists or Prophets, the land is filled with all kinds of them. But is there a prophet in the land that actually listens to God? I believe there is but they are the nobodies that God has hidden away for a time yet appointed.The five fold ministry MUST be activated once again for the perfection of the Church, so that the holy Spirit will bring it together in the unity of the faith" ...God has revealed this to you for a reason ...Quote:"Why can't this be done in the local assembly is because this message will clash with the pastors agenda. Pastors today do not want their congregation to be any more then what they are now, serving the clergy with the tithes and offerings. They will knock down anyone who tries to disrupt their services"Amen ... i know this first hand ... Not all, but far to many Balaams, Nicolaitans and Jezebels lording over the spiritually poor, dumb, blind and silly women laden with sin, and because you see them right away they see you ... Then it's war ...Quote:"This is EXACTLY the picture when Jesus came on the scene in His day"Exactly! ... i was watching a clip on The Passion where this guy said, "If you clearly look at the message of The Passion Jesus was not anti-semitic but anti-clerical" ... That hit me like a ton of bricks because that's exactly the stance of a true prophet, one sent with His "thus saith the Lord" against all leadership steeprd in what has become useless ritual and of benefit to vainglory ... Quote:"It is because God so loves His body that He is preparing those who will minister to those who have been longing for a true word to come forth that will seperate the sheep from the goats. When they will hear that word, they will cleave to it. They will know it is God speaking to them, they know His voice and none other they will follow. But this move of God will also take alot of religious minded people off guard, they will not want to be apart of this move, because it means to be completely sold out. Those whom we thought would receive this will reject it. Homosexuals, harlots and all manner of those of ill repute will embrace this" ...Well Christ did say He came for the sick for the well need not a physician ... For 20 years i've heard in my spirit that such a move is coming and i anticipate it greatly! ... :knockedout:
Sister Dian! ...How is one of my favorite SI'ers? ... :-DYou wrote,Quote:"Right now, the only thing different for me, is that my focus is on my personal relationship with God, my Bible reading, meditations, and prayer. The thing is, I've realized that I can never really fulfill God's purpose for my life until I know him. Until I'm a friend of God, and until all my self interests have been put to death. I'm finding that this is a process. Meanwhile, the small, faint trickle has begun to flow out of my belly. Perhaps it will someday be a river" ...As the old saints i know often times say when someone is going thru what you're experiencing, "Daughter God has His hand on you" ... And i'm sent to tell you, as brother Karl already knows, He's got a special service, a ministry that He's preparing you to ... Many are "called" but few are chosen to "special" or "particular" service ... Think about ALL of the saints of both the OT and NT that lived during the writing of scripture and the comparative few that we know by name because of God's chosing them to His special purpose, then it widens out from there ... i'm not saying that you, i, or anyone else will be used in that scope of capacity but wherever it is that God has His specific purpose for us that's where it is to be carried out ... So praise God in your continued submission and surrender in answering His call ... i know it's tuff but like i heard on a program coming to work this morning, "The pain associated with being refined into God's purpose of your life disappears once His goal(s) in you are reached" ... How God got my total undivided attention was when i heard Him say to me one day, "Rahman if you don't stop fighting me you'll never experience my ultimate purpose for you" ... That stopped me dead in my tracks because i know that i will never reach my realist contentment in this life without realizing why He's placed me here ... Surrender and submission gets us closer and closer until one day KABOOM! ... It's His KABOOM that we're striving for, in spite of our "self" ...Quote:"I've recently begun to realize how the organized church is actually a deterrant to people entering into to fellowship. I long for true fellowship and I do have it with just a few" ...i hear you ... Things are not as they should be in so much of "organized" religion, that due to the replacement of Holy Spirit's decency and order with mans ... Praise God that you have it with even a few, that means you're not alone, and that's a blessing in itself ...Quote:"I don't forget them. I'm not like that. But, I don't "worry" about them either, not anymore. I used to, but I've realized that some of the separation I'm experiencing is simply that I have had to 'come out from among them ...I'm glad I have lots of time to think and pray, because it takes time to examine one's own heart before God. God is in there like a professional investigator, going over my heart with a fine tooth comb, because one impurity can spoil what he's doing in the lives of others. I've been amazed and appalled at his findings. So, in answer to your question, I'm in a time of purifying and when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used.Stepping out of something does give one a whole different perspective, that from being a "participant" to a "spectator", or a "doer" to a "seer" ... What God will point out to you as whats right and wrong with you is pretty much the same that's right and wrong with all of us, but there are not many open to such pointing out ... But when He finds one, such as yourself, He instantly will snatch you out to His teaching so that He can not only send you back with His message to the others, but you will in fact by His purging of you be His message of what He wants from us all ... total surrender ... total submission to Himself, via the elimination of our "self" ...i like what you said here, "when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used", and it's interesting that brother MIke said the same thing ... You're right, and i didn't see this when whats happening to you now was happening to me ... i called it my "wilderness period" ... But bless God you can rest assured that if He's cleaning you up the way that He is you're in store of being used a lot! ... It's toward that "prize" that i pray you keep your eyes of faith when it really hurts, for the dawn of His ultimate purpose for you will erase all the darkness at first light ... i have no doubt that your river will become a torrent! ... God has faith in you! ... Just think about that when you or others don't ... Amen
Brother Mike here a few things that jumped out at me from your post ...Quote:"Just disciples ought to suffice" ...i don't get hung up on what i'm called ... "Christian" is fine with me, what others want to hang onto it as any preconcieved notion for me is between God and them ...Quote:"There is a platform and a program for everything under the sun, "One size fit's all" is a contradiction in terms from t-shirts to saints" ...i'd agree that the method of "salvation" itself is one size fits all, but our Christian walk definitely isn't because we've all got something unique to ourselves that God has intended for our lives, which is evidenced by the five fold ministry and the fact that Holy Spirit has a multitude of gifts that He gives out as it pleases Him to equipt us to do His work of lifting up the Lamb ... Case in point, we all have faith, but others of us have the gift of faith that stretches us toward what in the natural would seem impossible ,,,Quote:"Being more than 'doing'. I'm in a time of purifying and when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used ... is a pretty good summarization and yet perhaps maybe someone is getting helped by watching how something gets cleaned" ...i found this most interesting that you used the same phrase "when something is being cleaned, it isn't being used" that sister Dian used, which i spoke to in my post to her ... But what really hit me was your very astute observation following "maybe someone is getting helped by watching how something gets cleaned" ... As soon as i read that Holy Spirit told me to tell you, "Yes, the one that's closest to you" ... Amen ...Quote:"It is a great boon to know there are deep things to know. The curse of the majority of spiritual Christians is that they are too cocksure and certain there is nothing more to know than they know. That is spiritual insanity. The more we go on with God the more amazed we are at what there is to find out, until we begin to use the power God gives us to forget earthly things, to be carefully careless about them, but never careless about our relationship to God" ...Brother Mike i percieve something very "deep" going on in you spiritually ... Holy Spirit is pointing out some things to you that He's pointed out to me, as well as somethings that as soon as i read them i know exactly what you're saying (like the above) ... Man you're really close to another "breakthrough" and when it happens you may have to put a veil on your mug! ... 8-) ... Are folk telling you that you're weirding out yet? ... :-P ...Cocksure is right! ... When our Lord had me go before my pastor in 1999 He told me to tell him that our church was (then) like unto the church at Philadelphia, that we had a little strength and an open door before us, but that he/we were to be very diligent in not resting on our laurels, for if we did we would begin to slip into a Laodicean mindset, and the door would close" ... Well here it is 2005 and my pastor/church has slipped into that Laodicean mindset because we're just so sure of ourselves that we're rich and in need of nothing while Christ (bless Him) is still knocking ... Cocksure Christianity is more than spiritual insanity, it's spiritual suicide! ... That's the message to 5 out of the 7 churches in the Revelation ... Amen, "The more we go on with God the more amazed we are at what there is to find out" and thats exactly right because that quest soon blocks out all else as ones required stimuli ... This is when you really become "peculiar" ... In the vein of this type of peculiarity i believe the more weird one gets for God the happier it makes Him in us to His use ...Phil.3[13] Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,[14] I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.Quote:"Yes of course I pray for them when it comes to mind, but that's the point, they are not 'them', they are us" ... Hallelujah! ... That says it all! ... One Lord, one faith one baptism! ...
This may be of "topical" interest ...The Wilderness is a Preperation Place - not a Permanent Residence ...https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5409&forum=35"The Terrain has Changed: A Word to you Lonely Elijahs" & "The Urn in the Wilderness" ...https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=5157&forum=35 :beard:
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