Jesus Culture and other Music

Okay,

I was discussing the band Jesus Culture in another thread and I decided to make this one because it was a little off-center in regards to what the original post was about.

Should we listen to music from a place we know is slap-full of heresy? What if that music starts showing up at my church? If I hear it on the Christian radio, should I call and say, "Hey! These guys are heretics!"

The radio station probably doesn't care. Most stations are not managed with any real careful biblical thought. Much less so the music of our day, although there are exceptions for sure. I am with you on Jesus Culture. Yet, then, Hillsong Church is not exactly historically orthodox evangelical either....it has a history with prosperity preaching. Joel Osteen was a big hit over there last year. But, Hillsong music is in nearly every church in America. For good or bad.

Listen to each song. Pray. Decide. Warn, if necessary. I can tell you that I do not sing some sings that our church uses because they are flatly incorrect biblically. They are harmlessly wrong, but they are also silly in my opinion.

Yeah,

I understand that, too.

I have been thinking about it for a while now, but it seems to me that "worship" or "song services" in churches are almost occultish--we sing lots of emotional songs and then say, "I can really feel the presence of God here."

I always wondered if I just start reading the book of Psalms on the days that I am asked to lead music, if it would have the same "effect."

I don't want to be experimenting with God, you know, but at the same time I want everything I do to be pleasing to Him.

But even David played music with his psalms.

Something about music does resonate with our spirit. I think music is important for that reason. It does play on our emotion but sometimes that is needed. I am not generally a crying man but when tears do fall it is due to the presence of the Holy Spirit during worship.

I really can't criticize Hillsong because so many of their worship songs are so good.

However I cannot sing "Healer" by them because the guy who wrote it did so under false pretenses and I can't get past that. But songs like "from the inside out" and "oceans" and "sovereign hands" are so good.

Don't get me wrong...lol. I am a musician. I play guitar, banjo, piano, uke, (etc). And I love to play and sing to the Lord. No doubt.

But sometimes I think we get so bogged down with the music and how emotional it is that we forget that there are words we are singing and that even if we sing a song, that if our lives don't match, then we are doing nothing more than singing.

Never heard of the band 'Jesus Culture'. What do they do or teach that is heresy?

I know of Jesus People USA in Chicago. Any relation?

No. Jesus Culture is a band out of Bethel Church in Redding, California. Here is the link to the post Brother Greg just posted:

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=52447&forum=35

Hi havok20x,

This is the same exact question that I have been struggling with for the past several years. I have actually witnessed how Bethel's teachings begin to trojan horse their way into churches and peoples theology through their music. In So Cal, it is EXTREMELY prevalent, and their influence has silently been taking over the hearts and minds of the young people. I am also concerned to see that brother Francis Chan is getting more and more involved with them. He recently spoke at an event here in Los Angeles with Banning Liebscher (head of Jesus Culture) which has been adding further "legitimacy" to the movement. It really feels like an impossible battle and has been a tremendous source of discouragement in my own life at the moment as I have unfortunately received a lot of persecution for trying to point people to scripture (graciously and lovingly) and also have lost many friends along the way. Any thoughts/exhortations on how one should go about standing firm in the midst of these things?

Brother Greg,

Will Do. Thank you.

Tbsounde2: Hanging out here from time to time helps.

Infuse your own spirit and soul with God's Word, obediently, in love and prayer, and stand your ground.

I hate hearing that Chan may be more closely linking with them and will watch that closely as I can. He shies away from much online presence. Unless someone complains about him, and most of their complaints to date have been shallow and hollow, it seems you only hear from him when he is in a conference. I am slow to read too much into who he appears at a conference with unless he does it repeatedly, i.e., Passion. I think sometimes he shows up to challenge people he might not otherwise have opportunity to address. But, it bears watching anyway.

tbsounde2,

John 15. It is a wonderful reminder.

Apart from Him, we can do nothing.

Hi tbsounde2,
I used to 'lead worship' but have since stepped away from that stuff. Blessed be God for that...

There is a host of 'applesauce' songs that have one or two scriptural sounding lines surrounded by inedible hay.

These days, I just stick with the old music and hymns.

Music is a powerful force and exerts a tremendous influence in soulish believers that I would not attempt to point anyone to scripture about music unless I am specifically led of the Lord. But then, Its easy for me now because I no longer lead worship and am not part of a music group. For someone who is part of a group, I truly empathize.

The best thing might be to leave until the Lord leads you back in that direction to be a light to those seeking the light. Otherwise, I see nothing but hurt and grief in it.

May the Lord grant you wisdom. Amen.

its not just frances chan but brother yun ,,david pawson i noticed seem to be in some sort of partnership ,,it makes it hard to understand how are these men deserning that church

This issue with music in the church has be around for many years. It is a big problem how the whole 'music ministry' has become so dominant in churches. Don't get me wrong I love worshiping the LORD and some Godly music really helps that. However, there is no such thing in the NT outline for the church about 'music ministry' or 'worship leaders'.

Much of today's worship exerts far too a powerful a doctrinal influence on Christians through the words and many people get their theology from worship songs rather than the bible. Not to mention the soul stirring and control of the actual music. This exalts these so called 'worship leaders' to the place of teachers and manipulators. Worship should ideally arise from each member of the body and the musicians (if there are any) can just accompany and enhance the worship from a non prominent position.

You have to go back to the OT if you want to see worship leaders and musicians as a ministry. But we are not in the OT dispensation of temple worship, but in the body of Christ where each member has direct access to worship the LORD in Spirit and Truth and also minister one to another.

DEADn, here is a popular song by Jesus Culture (sung by Kim Walker). Seek them out on youtube and listen for YOURSELF.

Still Believe by Jesus Culture
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nydtcpOE6fQ

Your blood makes the deaf to hear right now
Your blood takes away the curse right now
Your blood heals every disease right now
Your blood sets the addict free right now

And I still believe You're the same yesterday, today and forever
And I still believe Your blood is sufficient for me

Your blood mends the broken heart right now
Your blood compels me to forgive right now
Your blood transforms my mind right now
Your blood brings the dead to life right now

And I still believe You're the same yesterday, today and forever
And I still believe Your blood is sufficient for me
[x2]

You're the higher power
Darkness cannot stand
No longer bound to sin, I am free
[x4]

And I still believe You're the same yesterday, today and forever
And I still believe Your blood is sufficient for me

Oh, all that I need
You are all that I need, Jesus
Your blood is enough for me
Oh, I believe, I believe, I believe, I believe, yeah

And I still believe You're the same yesterday, today and forever
And I still believe Your blood is sufficient for me
And I still believe You're the same yesterday, today and forever
And I still believe Your blood is sufficient for me

All I need
Come cover us right now
Come cover us Jesus
The blood, it opens deaf ears
The blood, breaks down disease
In Your presence, God, it has no place,
Pain has no place, disease has no place, sickness has no place
Weariness has no place, depression has no place
In Your presence, God, In Your presence, Jesus
We find all we need, we find all we need, we find all we need
In Your presence, Jesus
Oh, Jesus, all we need, is in You, Jesus
We believe, we believe, we believe
Tell Him tonight, tell Him tonight
Say I believe, I believe
Sing out in your words tonight
Let faith rise, let faith rise
Tell Him tonight
I believe, I believe You are who You say You are
You are the one who sees me, You're the one who's for me
You're the one who knows me, every hair on my head
You created me, how You love me
You're the one who has abundant help, abundant light for me
You're the one who has joy for me, Jesus
I believe, I believe, I believe
You are all I need
I believe, I believe, I believe
Oh, with all my heart, with all I am, even when I cannot see
I will stand with faith and I will believe
Oh, I believe, I believe, yeah

I believe, I believe
I will never stop believing
I believe, You are more than enough for me, God
I will not fear, I will not fear
Cause I believe
I believe

This is a tough issue because I think there is some really good worship music coming out of the bethel stream just like there is some really good coming out of IHOP and Hillsong although there may be some issues in these movements some more so than others.

I am at the point in my walk where I can separate the music from the background. If the lyrics are sound biblically that is good enough for me.

A lot of stuff played on mainstream "top 40" Christian radio is tripe, at least to me. The stuff coming from Jesus culture and bethel music and Hillsong seems to be deeper. Then mainstream artists like David crowder or Philips Craig and dean cover them and get all the credit. The commercialism of Christian radio is disgusting at least to me.

As far as Chan goes, he spoke at IHOPKC in late December 2013. (If you are old enough, you'll hear the Four Seasons in your head when you read that sentence. If not, you won't get this parenthesis. ;) ).

He carefully but explicitly corrected them. I know people will not always agree, some always will say "that isn't enough". Everyone must judge. I am always for truth. I am also for mercy in judgment where it is possible. Was it possible for Chan at IHOPKC? I won't say no. I believe that if he was wrong, God will show him. For now, I have seen nor heard anything to cause me to say of Chan, "he's left the fold". In fact, I quite think he is well inside it. I also think his house church ministry is very close to the kind of thing we see encouraged in the Gospel Fellowships.

"I am at the point in my walk where I can separate the music from the background. If the lyrics are sound biblically that is good enough for me."

TMK, this is not directed at you. I hear stuff like this all the time:

"I am a mature enough Christian that I can watch movies with explicit content and come away unscathed."

"I am a mature enough Christian that I can listen to worldly music and it not hurt me spiritually."

"I am a mature enough Christian that I can strain out the bad and keep the good."

Where in scriptures are we exhorted to live like this?

We are told to abhor what is evil and cling to what is good, but the context does not suggest a filter.

Honestly, I think that we (I am definitely including myself in this) walk a dangerous line when we think that we have the wisdom or the maturity to be able to apply a filter to our minds and hearts that would successfully stream out everything that is from the enemy. I am sorry. I am just not able. I can't walk into a porn store and say, "I'll just filter out the bad and keep the good." I can't listen to music that is worldly and say, "I'll just filter out the bad and keep the good." I can't listen to music that was written by those who, theologically, are way off base and reapply what I am hearing to what I already think. I am sorry, but if that is what we are doing then we are toying with some dangerous stuff here. Word-witchcraft is all it is.