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Title: A Vision of Coming Judgment To America In the Last Days
Speaker: Dean Odle
a very sobering message ,i believe is from the lord ,,,what can i say about it other then i feel the lord is afirming this same message through other speakers as well ,,,we should be looking forawrd to the times of refreshings that are comeing by the presesnce of the lord ,,and not despise his chastisment when it comes ,,,lifting up our head for our redemption is drawing nigh
It is hard for me to really comment on the message because I disagree with him on some theological points that I understand others may have no problem with. My issues are as follows:
1) His statement that the Olivet Discourse in Mt. 24 pertains to the "end times.” I believe that it clearly refers to the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 AD- all of it.
2) If I told you about a dream I had and that I thought it was from the Lord, how much stock would you put in that? A lot of his preaching seemed to be based on dreams he had. The problem with this is that many Christians might be dreaming dreams with different content that THEY think is from the Lord. And what about the dreams of non-Christians. Now, I have had 2 dreams in my life that I personally know (or at least strongly believe) were from the Lord. Both were exceedingly pleasant. While I might share the dream with friends I wouldn’t presume to expect that they have to agree that the dreams were from the Lord. That is personal to me.
3) His statement that the American economy must collapse to make way for chips being implanted into our hands. But this has to do more with his interpretation of Rev. and I know that many people believe in literal marks or chips etc and long-haired locusts etc. So again more of a personal thing.
I definitely agreed with him on a couple of points, one being that the "purpose-drivens” and the seeker ”“friendlies have done nothing to bring revival to America. Whether it will take nuclear destruction of the east and west coasts is open for discussion.
It is difficult for me to comment. I will need to wait and see if what he says will come to pass.
Theologically, I did have some issues with what he said, but primarily I'll just have to see if what he says comes to pass. It has to be during the presidency of Obama, though.
Great point havok.
I love it how pastors who talk about a horrible prophetic event they think will happen always preface it with " now I don't want to scare you, but..."
Nuclear annihilation is pretty scary. For those who aren't directly killed it's still "panic in the year zero. "
Why would God ever judge America?
John Little has a few hints:
".... I am upset that my taxes have helped pay for the active and coercive promotion of homosexuality around the world. America has become the single biggest advocate of homosexuality that the world has EVER known. In the entire history of mankind, no one has ever done more to increase homosexuality than America. No one."
America, Lord of the Homosexual World
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/04/america-lord-of-the-homosexual-world/
one up on Sodom & Gom.? and if that would be not enough:
America, Lord of the Pornography Trade
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/03/america-lord-of-the-pornography-trade/
well, somone has to "be the best", and this one is an eye-opener for some:
America, Lord of the Heroin Trade
http://www.omegashock.com/2014/06/02/america-lord-of-the-heroin-trade/
myself, I dont find anything truly new in both the audio or in the above articles, its known to the average researcher of christian writings, i'm more concerned with the time AFTER the judgment of America that will come with certainty, because it's in the prophets. What will remain of all that American culture and American way of thinking in religious matters? What will be clearly identified to be wrong teaching then?. And if it's wrong THEN because it came crushing down, why tolerate it now, when you still can do somthing about it and minds and hearts still can be changed to be accessible to the truth?
I mean for example in Matt 24 the disciples asked Jesus: and what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the world? And He answers accordingly. If thats not clear now, what else do you not understand or admit to be true? It's about: the sign of His second coming, and of the end of the world. Not the denial of it what makes prophecy irrelevant to you - so no prophetc warning can in fact reach you. Including the readers that are also scriptural illiterate but love a message of peace and safety for the flesh.
America will not reshape in any other form, it will simply end, thats scripture, even if not even 1% of American believers want to understand that, it's still there for everyone else to see. Americans wished they would rather have a great revival instead - what seems like a very good idea - however like all major empires that made a multitude of sins their daily business the nation as such will end suddenly, nonetheless. Deal with it before you are made to leave or the airports are closed because of the lack of electricity [EMP], pray if its the Father's will to leave. Now would be a good time to ask, and receive an actual answer concerning that question. Jesus answers prayer and will direct the steps of the righteous.
a-servant-
Not clear who you are addressing your comments to-- but where in the Bible does it say that America is going to be smoked by a nuclear conflagration? You say its obvious to see? Where?
I am not saying that it might not be- anything can happen- just wondering where you think it actually says that explicitly.
In Mt. 24 Jesus was telling his disciples about things that would happen to THAT generation. Plain as day. Again, that does not mean something very bad might not happen in OUR generation, but Mt. 24 is not about that.
I looked at the "omegashock" website-- what is John little's point other than being scintillating? Does he offer any helpful insight into the alarm bells he is ringing or is he simply ringing alarm bells that we have all heard 100s of times? (Jack Van impe, Tim Lahaye, etc?)
I listened. Two things he said:
1. "I can't tell you about that right now."
2. I believe Jeremiah 5 is about the United States if you'll just substitute "United States" where it says Judah and Jerusalem.
Mmmmm. Yeah.
Let me say this. The guy seems so nice, and I'd suppose he's a good fellow to get to know. I won't question his character or anything based on a 21 minute testimony.
But, I felt like I was "watching" a Mario Bros. game where Mario just snatched the coins without jumping on any squares and getting the goodies. Now, I know if you are unfamiliar with Nintendo games that doesn't make any sense, and I sure don't want to be trivial here. Yet, I thought this talk trivialized things. How?
See #1 above. If this brother has had so much revelation from God, and if it was so important for him to speak at this place and time and occasion that was recorded here, then he should have just been out with it. Or, he should've not mentioned it at all, which would be better. I wonder if he had books or booklets or CDs for sale in the lobby, because he kept teasing about what he "knew" from these visions and dreams, etc. It was extremely off-putting and made me not take him seriously. And, I'm inclined to take such things seriously.
He didn't say anything particularly helpful or enlightening. The weight of his remarks were not the authority of Scripture but rather "trust me, I know what I'm talking about. Remember, God showed me." I was chalking this current of his talk up to the brevity of the time he had to speak (he was obviously limited) and not so much a lack of appeal to Scripture .... until he said #2 above.
Then, honestly, he lost me.
Let's do what he encouraged. Let's read through Jeremiah 5 and drop in "USA" wherever Jerusalem or Judah are written. Let's not call it Jeremiah 5; let's call it Dean 5, so we're not "adding to" or substituting the actual word of God, out of sheer respect.
Run to and fro through the streets of the USA,
look and take note!
Search her squares to see
if you can find a man,
one who does justice
and seeks truth,
that I may pardon her.
2
Though they say, "As the Lord lives,”
yet they swear falsely.
3
O Lord, do not your eyes look for truth?
You have struck them down,
but they felt no anguish;
you have consumed them,
but they refused to take correction.
They have made their faces harder than rock;
they have refused to repent.
4
Then I said, "These are only the poor;
they have no sense;
for they do not know the way of the Lord,
the justice of their God.
5
I will go to the great
and will speak to them,
for they know the way of the Lord,
the justice of their God.”
But they all alike had broken the yoke;
they had burst the bonds.
6
Therefore a lion from the forest shall strike them down;
a wolf from the desert shall devastate them.
A leopard is watching their cities;
everyone who goes out of them shall be torn in pieces,
because their transgressions are many,
their apostasies are great.
7
"How can I pardon you?
Your children have forsaken me
and have sworn by those who are no gods.
When I fed them to the full,
they committed adultery
and trooped to the houses of whores.
8
They were well-fed, lusty stallions,
each neighing for his neighbor's wife.
9
Shall I not punish them for these things?
declares the Lord;
and shall I not avenge myself
on a nation such as this?
10
"Go up through her vine rows and destroy,
but make not a full end;
strip away her branches,
for they are not the Lord's.
11
For the house of the USA and the house of America
have been utterly treacherous to me,
declares the Lord.
12
They have spoken falsely of the Lord
and have said, ‘He will do nothing;
no disaster will come upon us,
nor shall we see sword or famine.
13
The prophets will become wind;
the word is not in them.
Thus shall it be done to them!’”
The Lord Proclaims Judgment
14
Therefore thus says the Lord, the God of hosts:
"Because you have spoken this word,
behold, I am making my words in your mouth a fire,
and this people wood, and the fire shall consume them.
15
Behold, I am bringing against you
a nation from afar, O house of USA,
declares the Lord.
It is an enduring nation;
it is an ancient nation,
a nation whose language you do not know,
nor can you understand what they say.
16
Their quiver is like an open tomb;
they are all mighty warriors.
17
They shall eat up your harvest and your food;
they shall eat up your sons and your daughters;
they shall eat up your flocks and your herds;
they shall eat up your vines and your fig trees;
your fortified cities in which you trust
they shall beat down with the sword.”
18 "But even in those days, declares the Lord, I will not make a full end of you. 19 And when your people say, ‘Why has the Lord our God done all these things to us?’ you shall say to them, ‘As you have forsaken me and served foreign gods in your land, so you shall serve foreigners in a land that is not yours.’”
20
Declare this in the house of America;
proclaim it in the United States:
21
"Hear this, O foolish and senseless people,
who have eyes, but see not,
who have ears, but hear not.
22
Do you not fear me? declares the Lord.
Do you not tremble before me?
I placed the sand as the boundary for the sea,
a perpetual barrier that it cannot pass;
though the waves toss, they cannot prevail;
though they roar, they cannot pass over it.
23
But this people has a stubborn and rebellious heart;
they have turned aside and gone away.
24
They do not say in their hearts,
‘Let us fear the Lord our God,
who gives the rain in its season,
the autumn rain and the spring rain,
and keeps for us
the weeks appointed for the harvest.’
25
Your iniquities have turned these away,
and your sins have kept good from you.
26
For wicked men are found among my people;
they lurk like fowlers lying in wait.[a]
They set a trap;
they catch men.
27
Like a cage full of birds,
their houses are full of deceit;
therefore they have become great and rich;
28
they have grown fat and sleek.
They know no bounds in deeds of evil;
they judge not with justice
the cause of the fatherless, to make it prosper,
and they do not defend the rights of the needy.
29
Shall I not punish them for these things?
declares the Lord,
and shall I not avenge myself
on a nation such as this?”
30
An appalling and horrible thing
has happened in the land:
31
the prophets prophesy falsely,
and the priests rule at their direction;
my people love to have it so,
but what will you do when the end comes?
Now, it is easy to draw parallels between sinful Israel and Judah and America. Not saying there are no parallels. Sure there are. But, it is fast and loose with "thus saith the Lord" to do as Dean O. suggested we do with Jeremiah 5. You read through this and you see that the destruction God wrought was tied to His covenant with Abraham and with Moses and Israel. America has no covenant with God. I know it is popular, Winthrop's "city on a hill" and all that. But, it just isn't biblical.
So, to make a short work of it, Odie's testimony (it wasn't a sermon, to be honest) only repeated what we mostly already know, that God is going to pour out wrath on the earth and -- as we believe -- soon. He actually undermines urgency by his teasing at private revelations or understandings that were just too much to share, and by his cavalier treatment of Scripture.
That's my opinion.
I was at the SI conference when brother Dean shared his testimony and he was only given a few minutes to share which is why he kept saying he couldn't say too much.
Whether or not brother Dean had a dream from God or ate too much pizza, is difficult for any of us to say. But if you have been following world events, I would say his dream about the nuclear event off the coast of Japan has some legitimacy.
Dean Odle from what I can tell is a man of God with integrity and character, or I don't think he would have been invited to speak at a SI conference. Brother Greg could share more I am sure, but I was the moderator at the conference and have kept in touch with brother Dean and have no issues with him...he preaches the Word of God without compromise which is very rare these days. Perhaps God has granted that he receives last days visions and dreams, isn't that what the prophet Joel said would happen? Are we to call into question everyone who claims they had a vision or dream from the Lord? We may as well throw away a lot of what David Wilkenson said then, especially his book "The Vision"...which btw echos the nuclear judgement coming to America.
I don't think it is outside of the realms of possibility at all that America could be hit with nukes from within or from without. God has allowed weapons of all descriptions to inflict judgment on wicked people and nations.
In fact, I can not give any detail but I have it on good authority from "a friend of a friend" that there is intelligence that certain American cities are current targets for small nukes in the event that an enemy would want to bring America to her knees again...or rather finish what they started in 2001.
Does anyone remember what happened in the aftermath of 9/11? The stock market? Businesses coming to a grinding halt for weeks? Imagine this but on a 100 fold level and that is what the enemys of America could do to her if they could get their hands on nuclear material.
Could it happen? Absolutely! Will it happen as brother Dean declares he saw in a dream? Who knows, but it is food for thought that's for sure.
From the sounds of things most people are Americans first and Christians second.
Zeke, please elaborate a little to make your point clearer because your statement doesn't seem to bear any relation to this topic or the sermon any of the comments on this thread, thank you brother.
Awakened,
Please note that I went out of my way to limit criticism of Dean Odle in any personal way. I assumed that he was in a time constraint. I believe God speaks in dreams and visions. I believe we are in the last of the last days before Jesus returns. I agree with Dean that there is no pretrib rapture, although I admit I am less than certain on the matter.
We are invited to critique and comment and parse truth in these sermons. I stand by what I said. If it was one of those "well you just had to be there" deals, I wish our random choice of sermon for the week had landed elsewhere. Becsuse this one has some issues that may reflect less than fairly on our brother.
Brothers,
I don't know Dean Odle and other than being clearly charasmatic (went to his website), there is nothing on the website that suggests he is a man of ill character. I don't think that listening to these random sermons should venture that route, anyhow. Let us do what the Scriptures encourage us to do in these situations:
1) Look at the Word of God and see if what He is saying is true.
2) If he prophesies, then we need to wait to see if it comes to pass. If it does not, then we know that he was speaking, just as the scriptures admonish us: "when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is the thing which the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him." (Deut 18:22).
awakened,
You will have to look very hard anywhere on the earth to find the church as introspective about its nations spiritual status than America as if they are connected at the hip. Quite possibly that may be its inherent problem.
awakened--
I understand what you are saying. The only problem is that EVERYONE seems to be saying that America will be subject of nuclear holocaust. How many Hollywood movies have been made about this? I can name 3 real quick... Planet of the Apes, Terminator and Panic in the Year Zero.
Should we give those films prophetic weight? Or should we just chalk them up to speculative fiction? And if a Christian makes such prophecies how long of we give them to come true and when do they have to apologize? 50 years? 10 years? 1000 years?
Bad things are always happening all over the world. And have always happened. So such general predictions are hard to take seriously and you certainly dont have to be a Christian to make them.
I do believe that God will judge the nations, but I do not believer that America has a special judgment planned out for it.
Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God. There is only 1 problem:
It takes 2 parties in agreement to make a covenant valid. Even if people did found this country and dedicate it to the Lord, that doesn't make us a covenant people. Especially since the Lord Himself did not ratify the covenant.
Not only that, but I believe America is living proof that there is no other covenant with God will EVER pan out except that which is founded through the blood of Jesus Christ.
If I make a covenant with God that everyone at my work will follow Him, it makes no difference because 1) God has to also agree to it, and 2) Apart from a marvelous work of the Holy Spirit, no one else is going to agree.
Dolfan, I agree, poor random choice for brother Dean...maybe next time:)
TMK, like I said, its food for thought that's all. What if brother Dean and David Wilkerson are right? What if God is going to judge America?
This nation is made up of PEOPLE...people that the Lord loves and died for but they are still people who either live to please him or who become a people who's sins are so egregious that the Lord allows her to be destroyed. Maybe we are not there yet but look at the filth that has permeated the world because of America. As someone else stated somewhere, there has never been a people in the history of the world who have done more to propagate and promote the homosexual cause than America. I pondered that remark and wondered what it was that brought the tipping point to Sodom and Gomorrah? What sent them down into the abyss from which there was no turning back? I heard someone recently say they felt to leave this country because it had become so much like Sodom and Gomorrah over the homosexual issue that they sensed in their spirit that God was going to judge the nation because of it...so they packed up and left!!!
Again, lots of food for thought. Maybe nothing but paranoia but it may be the Lord is warning us before hand to get ready because things are going to get very messed up around here.
Many Americans think that this country, like the people of Israel, are in covenant with God.
Obviously God doesn't have to explain Himself if He allows America to be attacked by terrorists or come to economic ruin. He doesn't even explain when bad things happen to good people, so who am I to figure this stuff out? The bottom line is that certain people believe that America as a nation is about to land in a mess of hurt. I think there is a lot of writing on the wall to suggest that it will get much, much worse and if I know anything about Gods character He will allow anyone or any nation to reap what they have sown, imho the reaping has begun!
I was thinking about this on the way home from work today.
Back before WW2 or when WWII started, were any Christian leaders saying that America was coming under judgment? Or that the whole world was? I mean- 50-80 million people died in WW2.
The US had over 407,000 killed. That is very hard to imagine. Other countries had far more. By comparison, since 2001 the war in Afghanistan has claimed only around 3400 American lives and Americans are up in arms about that.
In WW1 the Germans had up to 2 million killed. Incredible! Then in WW2 they had up to 4.4 million dead and AMAZINGLY the USSR had up to 13.85 million killed.
I guess what I am saying is back then it seemed a whole lot worse "war and rumors of wars" wise than it does now. Was anybody saying that this was due to God's judgment? Were Christians saying "get ready for the rapture?" If not, why not? I have very little knowledge about this and I am curious about it.
I do know that Art Katz believed that the Holocaust was God's judgment on the Jewish people and that essentially it didn't work to turn them to repentance. I know this view is pretty unpopular but that is what he believed and taught. He also believes that the Holocaust was "child's play" compared to what is soon to come upon the Jewish people worldwide, even in the United States. I find that so hard to comprehend but like I said earlier anything is possible.
This discussion is locked.
