Greek Help in James

Ok can the word pis'-tis which is translated faith 239/244 in the KJV be understood as "conviction of a moral or Godly truth"? I belive it can..(I seen something similar in Thayers and Strongs) but i have no greek knowledge. If it is so then I have just had more than a lightbulb, but a spotlight turned on James Chapter 2 where he talks so much about works and faith. Because if faith in that scripture can mean conviction of a truth then it makes perfect sense what he is talking about. "if you are convicted of something but not responsive to it (works) this is it nothing. and just because you are convicted of sin that doesnt mean that you are saved" I would like to hear some input. Ive just been thinking alot about the book of James and this is a conclusion I have come up with. Thanks guys!*edit* Are pure works not this: that we respond to the conviction of God? *edit*

matt13:3-9

matt13:3-9I guess I don't understand :-? How is that a response to my question?

James 4:17 to him that knows to do good and doeth it not, it is sin.

OK.. I guess I just dont understand.. I was asking if the word faith could be interpreted conviction of a moral or religious truth in that scripture. If you are trying to help then please explain..I really hope I'm not coming off rude but I have no idea what you are trying to say.. :-(

Please forgive me. I posted here what I intended to post in another forumn. Oops, sorry about that. I don't have alot of time and this week is way to busy, leaving in a few hrs for Minn., back tues. So alot of what I posted this week has been just pop in and get off and get prepared for Minn.(St. Paul). So bro. your not off base or rude, I just posted somethig here I intended to post in another place. Just pray for me. God Bless Bro. Daryl

Ok no problem.. 8-) I just thought maybe I couldnt see what you were trying to say.

The word 'believe' and 'faith' are used 19 times in James.Jam_1:3; Jam_1:6; Jam_2:1; Jam_2:5; Jam_2:14; Jam_2:17; Jam_2:18; Jam_2:19; Jam_2:20; Jam_2:22; Jam_2:23; Jam_2:24; Jam_2:26; Jam_5:15;The demons 'believe' in the unity of God, but it has no impact upon their lives. They can only 'believe' what God reveals of Himself and He has clearly revealed to them His unity. They are in awe of the Triune God but they only tremble.I'm not sure I follow what you are trying to do with 'faith' in James, but it is the same word used throughout the NT.

Well... I was just looking at what thayers and strongs said about the word faith. Strongs says this:pis'-tisFrom G3982; persuasion, that is, credence; moral conviction (of religious truth, or the truthfulness of God or a religious teacher), especially reliance upon Christ for salvation; abstractly constancy in such profession; by extension the system of religious (Gospel) truth itself: - assurance, belief, believe, faith, fidelity.Thayer says this:pistisThayer Definition:1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it...And the thought came to mind that conviction doesn't mean anything if you do not respond to it. And it just seemed to go together that conviction without works (a response or change of action) is dead. I wasnt trying to limit faith to just a conviction. I was just asking if that was a valid way to interpret the verse. Or in other words could the word conviction take the place of the word faith in those few verses in James and you get the same meaning out of it.

Thayer Definition:1) conviction of the truth of anything, belief; in the NT of a conviction or belief respecting man’s relationship to God and divine things, generally with the included idea of trust and holy fervour born of faith and joined with it...'Thayer's Dictionary' can be a valuable tool but remember that he was a unitarian and almost certainly had no living faith in Christ. As a consequence his definitions will tend towards rationalistic explanations rather than a genuine spiritual dynamic.We sometimes need to look carefully at words like faith which encompass whole worlds of thought. I love God, my wife, my children, ice-cream, Staffordshire Bull Terriers... I believe in God, the Atkins Diet, Port Vale Football Club, the Democratic Party, We need to know the person and the context to appreciate what that person means by 'believe' or 'love' at that time.BTW: Not all the above are true!! It was just an illustration. :-?

PORT VALE FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATKINS...? :-)

PORT VALE FOOTBALL CLUB AND ATKINS...? So what wrong with Port Vale Football Club? How long have you got...?Still, its biblical! 1 Thess 5:14 (KJV) clearly instructs us to support Port Vale! :-D

VERY GOOD I'M LAUGHING STILL :lol: Brother,have you struggled long with this affliction?pete Elks suffers in a simular way with the rare Derby countyoususmaybe NCW can help?

I think we ought to let our friends across the ocean into this little local joke. Port Vale Football Club is one of the worst football clubs in the UK, but their ground was a 10 minute walk from where I was born and raised. There is an old joke about Port Vale that runs like this.dring, dring (telephone.)"Yes, Port Vale Football Club. How can I help you?"; Club OfficialCaller: "What time is kick off tonight?"Club Official: "What time can you get here?"

Thanks Philo... this is what I was looking for..either a correction or affirmation.. but what about Strongs, it says close to the same thing? I didnt know much about Thayer.. thanks..

Does someone need to know Greek to truly understand the Bible??? If that is true, then every church in the world should begin offering Greek lessons to all. Crazy, but this is what we gather from preachers who constantly get their kick off of saying, "in the ORIGINAL Greek it REALLY says..." If you really can't understand the Bible correctly without knowing Greek, then the preacher stands in between the people and God. We have Roman Catholicism back again.The truth of the matter is that every time we "go to the Greek," we are RE-TRANSLATING the Bible. Let me ask you a question. Do you feel qualified to translate the Bible? The men who translated the KJV were eminent scholars who really knew Jesus Christ and had the fear of God that if they were to gravely err in their translation that their name would be blotted out of the book of Life.New scholars believe the Bible should be translated like any other book. Check me out. They pick and choose and guess what they think is right because they entertain a corrupt textual stream.For more info click here:http://www.bbconfire.com/articles/drdavidbrown/greatuncials.aspYou don't have to know Greek to understand the Bible, it has been accurately translated for you by a committee of many men who took the whole counsel of a whole country: England. Any man could send in suggestions to the committee. Private interpretation?? Nope. Not with the KJV.Blessings,TR

So in other words your saying its a waste of time to want to look at the greek? and the KJV is infallible? Private interpretation?? Nope.Thats why I started this thread.

Of course it is not a waste of time to look at the Greek. It is just not necessary to understand the Bible and it's message. Greek words like "diakonos" were taken right across into English as "deacon." Here a simple knowledge of the Greek could help. But the Bible has a built in dictionary. If you look at the first, second, or third mention of the word in the Bible it will define itself. Take the word "cockatrice." Do you know what a cockatrice is? Go look at the first mentions of this word. You will find it is a fiery, flying, serpent. And that is just what a cockatrice is. God defined it in the Bible. This works throughout scripture.The German Luther Bible is God's word in German, the Reina-Valera Spanish is God's word in Spanish, and so on. English is not the only pure vernacular translation. If translations can't be pure, we all need to learn Greek and Hebrew. How can you dispute this?Can you really hold up your Bible and say it is infallable? I hope you can. Can you say, "Every promise in the book is mine, every promise, every verse, every line?"

You don't have to know Greek to understand the Bible, it has been accurately translated for you by a committee of many men who took the whole counsel of a whole country: England. Any man could send in suggestions to the committee. Private interpretation?? Nope. Not with the KJV.I'm no scholar of greek or the scriptures as brethren like Philologos, Eric or Robert and some others, but would it not have been wiser to consult the Holy spirit on this? If they did and that's the answer they got then it's all good. In scripture you mentioned at the end there, doesn't the private interpretation refer more to someone reading the scripture and coming up with using his mind with an interpretation? The verse also says that the men wrote as they were moved by the spirit so the words were given to them by the Spirit and therefore require the spirit to interpret. is this a correct assessment?

Can you really hold up your Bible and say it is infallable? I hope you can. Can you say, "Every promise in the book is mine, every promise, every verse, every line?"I can, even though I have a good news and n.i.v. I simply leave the interpretation part to the Holy Spirit and let Him teach me. What of those people for example in my country of Zimbabwe that read the shona bible or ndebele one which is translated from English versions which may or may not be textus receptus(?) Some words in English simply have no equal in shona or ndebele and can't really be translated accurately, while some other words in the shona and ndebele are actually better fitting in terms of context than the english. What of those people? Does not having the textus receptus diminish how God can use them or teach them through scripture? I don't think so, I could be wrong also.