Thanks Aaron and Rahman,Funny how a re-reading of these things can make one realize that "I didn't explain that very well". Even that quote above has a ring to it of 'almost believing it if it wasn't for...'So I understand what you mean Aaron with your fuller clarification.Frankly and redundantly am suspicious of all of this stuff, all this 'forth-telling', wherever it comes from, even someone who I admire like Art Katz who has helped draw deeper truths out on so many areas, like well, truth itself as well as a different look from his perspective on issues on Israel, the Jewish people, something that doesn't seem to gather much attention in this end of the globe or it's particular brand of Christianity.(I may have some sympathies to the possibilities of Mr. Katz's take on things, but that is largely because of his character and the interesting thought that it goes so far against the tide of much modern day thought, in other words, his possibilities maybe more probable, but still, what do I know?) Not looking to crack that nut here either, but as far as the prophetic goes in a business of prediction as it largely is constituted nowadays find it to be delusional even if well intended at times. Man that sounds soft.I think it's bunk. It seems to be a conglomeration of educated guess and the miss firing of the gray matter. How is it that in our day there is now a half-way house for the 'Prophet'? "He may have just misunderstood what the Lord was saying". This willingness to go easy on the so called 'prophet', it just doesn't jive. For all the ridiculous things I have heard over the years and the ease which some can be caught up in all these speculations, everything from the horses beating the Heavens causing gold dust to fall from the streets to taking todays newspaper headlines and making them 'proof' of 'prophecy'.The proof is in the pudding, it either happens or it doesn't. The best prophetic truth that is in existence today is this:Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. Again redundantly, that many things are happening that we can discern doesn't seem to need to be couched in terms of prophecy. The ideals of Utopianism. Is the world gradually getting better and better or worse and worse? Something that stands out in Jesus' words:Mar 13:28 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is near: Mar 13:29 So ye in like manner, when ye shall see these things come to pass, know that it is nigh, even at the doors. Without breaking this out into the whole area of eschatology...Mar 13:33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. Just seems to be the best advice, we don't know and it certainly appears that we find out after the fact or at best during, but forward looking beyond is speculation and dangerous if it is in this idea of taking things out of context, marrying scripture texts into new 'revelations','spiritualising' things to make them say what they were never intended to say. That some are want to stand up and state "You are going the wrong way" and point back-wards to biblical innerancy for instance or even further in the sense of what did the early church teach and believe, those may be our true 'prophets' today. Funny that they are in effect scorned as 'fundamentalist' and 'backwards....Precisely!Am a bit unsure if this is all coming out the way I hoped to express it, but it has been a bit bothersome for some time now. The suspicion of much is in caution, to hold these things in abeyance, the oft underlining unsaid sentiment can be one of unbelief which is another deception. Somewhere there has to be more of a distinction between opinion or possibilities, 'could be's' or 'maybe's' and these pronouncements of "Thus sayeth the Lord" or "The Lord is telling me...."Are you sure?What do we do with all the things that have been said in the last 5 years? Ten years? How many of them came to pass? How many have been relegated to the the trash or just forgotten? As a test and it just dawned on me that I still have this, here is one that I saved from 2003:~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Jan 2, 2003 Prophecy for 2003Alice SmithU.S. PRAYER CENTER1-800-569-4825“Even as we (the United States) have broken the backs of our oppressors, God is breaking the back of our arrogance and pride. (A stick was snapped in half) Fear will fill our land until we humbly return to God. We have disgraced the covenants of our founding fathers and our land is defiled.The Lord is shaking our foundations. America’s man-made gods are NO god’s at all. God is saying in the days to come we will see all our self-made god’s fail – with self-being the biggest of all!The issue in our nation is not the war with Iraq. The Lord says the issue is the war going on in our heart. The Lord gave me a Scripture for us. Jeremiah 5:-7-19 says,"Why should I forgive you? Your children abandoned me. They took godless oaths. They committed adultery, even though I satisfied their needs. They traveled in crowds to the houses of prostitutes. They are like well-fed stallions that are wild with desire. They neigh for their neighbors' wives. I will punish them for these things," declares the LORD. "I will punish this nation."Go among Jerusalem's rows of grapevines and destroy them, but don't destroy all of them. Cut off the branches because they don't belong to the LORD. The nations of Israel and Judah are unfaithful to me," declares the LORD. They lie about the LORD and say, "He doesn't exist! Nothing bad will happen to us.We won't experience war or famine. The prophets are nothing but windbags. The LORD hasn't spoken through them, so let what they say happen to them." This is what the LORD God of Armies says: Because you've talked like this, I'm going to put my words in your mouth like a fire. These people will be like wood. My words will burn them up. I'm going to bring a nation from far away to attack you, declares the LORD. It is a nation that has lasted a long time. It is an ancient nation. You don't know the language of this nation. You can't understand what its people say. Their arrow quivers are like open graves. They are all mighty warriors. They will devour your harvest and your food. They will devour your sons and your daughters. They will devour your flocks and your cattle. They will devour your grapevines and your fig trees. With their swords they will destroy the fortified cities you trust. Yet, even in those days, declares the LORD, I won't destroy all of you. They will ask, "Why has the LORD our God doneall this to us?" Answer them, "You have abandoned me and served foreign gods in your land. So you will serve foreigners in a land that isn't yours." (Ker. 5:7-19)The invasion of war will happen and possibly North Korea, China or several of the Russian republics will resist us. (Like Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Soviet Georgia area)Return to Jesus Christ! Renew the covenant of our forefathers who sought the Lord with all their heart, turned from their sin, shed their blood for freedom and walked in humility and love with one another and God. 2003 is the year of decision for our nation. The heathen cannot intimidate the man or woman who is intimate with God. Draw close to Jesus and He will be your strength and comfort. Stop trying to be politically correct. All of us need to stop it! ‘And, Mr. President, tell who you are! Please stop trying to be politically correct!’We are in a battle of worship. Satan wants us to worship at his altar of self, money, reputation, glory and careers – and the Lord wants us to worship him in purity, truth, holiness, love and forbearance! THE BATTLE IS WHOM WILL WE WORSHIP!In 2003 there will be a shifting of leadership in the Catholic Church. The old is dying and the new is coming.”Copyright 2003, USPC www.USPrayerCenter.org ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Just an example but despite the sentiments of and the fact that there is some truth contained there the bottom line is this just did not happen. Also interesting is that this is nowhere to be found there now, no explanation, no recanting, no apologies. Again only an example, an harbor no motive other than to point out that it is wrong.On a rant surely, but another illustration. Before being apprehended by the Lord for some time I lived in fear that a soon coming nuclear holocaust was eminent, this was at the height of the arms race. It was a bondage that was unnecessary, to say it couldn't still happen is as absurd as saying it will never happen or that it will happen tomorrow. What I am concerned about is in what can get overlooked, that the nature of deception of false prophets of counterfeits is precisely that they appear to be the real thing. That many are want to delve into areas they have no business being in and leading others into all kinds of speculations and imaginations. Over and over again the admonishment in scripture is to "watch and pray", to "test", to "be sober minded", "to not go beyond what is written" and certainly that would include not re-writing or re-interpreting scripture to suit something cooked up in these fallen and still being renewed minds of ours. Isn't the mere wonder and mystery of "My thought's are not your thoughts" enough to tell us that we just don't know? Isn't that enough of a warning in itself to fear the wrath to come? However that comes? That regardless of how it all pans out ultimately there will be a final accounting and that is a sure prophecy to come, because we are all headed towards it at an unstoppable speed. Death marches on and we are caught in it's wake. Just not knowing ought to be enough and that is to anyone and everyone, even us who know better, because I fear it is easy to get get caught off guard and get caught up in all these speculations and further away from the bottom line. For all the talk and mildly amusing presuppositions of a Universalism mindset is just the simplicity of what is meant by salvation. What pray tell is it that we are in need of being saved from? It just strikes me as odd that the core issues can be pushed to the side while the details get all the attention, the trees for the forest. Only interject that here because for one it has come up recently and maybe it's just a bent toward looking at things from the whole. Being that there is so much to look at here from the various conversations and perusing through everything with one eye on hoping to keep out the unnecessary dissensions and disruptions as the past months have been an indication of the other is in perhaps seeing things in this overall view. Am finding this whole Catholic situation very suspicious as well and not in the prophetic sense though it may be... Ecumenicism is suspicious, the more one looks into all these things, this whole 'structure' as it is, the things being brought forth for our examination, the double speak and confusion and frankly compromise is disturbing. Don't think it is necessary to be mean-spirited about it nor carried away to extremes, but this is surely a system on parallel with the Scribes and Pharisees an addition of tradition and a lording it over the people. That an outcry is suppressed (not necessarily here) but in the greater realm of Christianity as a whole is curious and spiritually deflating. This willingness to be chummy and talk of all the great things that this next pope can, will or might do seems to be missing the point all together...What am I trying to say... If the core of everything that Christianity stands for is not Jesus, then why has He been relegated to the back burner?What's coming or what's to become of all of this is an area I am not inclined to go there. So call it what you will, but if there is anything whatsoever that seems obvious it's that the trends are going further and further away from the core and I pray that we keep to the path back-wards, back to:Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein. Isa 58:12 And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in. Back to the cross and the cost and:Joh 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto Me. Long winded again, felt compelled nonetheless and as usual, do ignore it as the rantings of a fool if it is but foolishness, just my two cent's worth...
