This is simply a question for discussion and not trying to start a firefight.
What if the Israelis were Christians. What should their response to Hamas be? The same as what Israelis are doing now, or something different?
TMK,
it's not really a valid question. Israel is a nation state, not a religious group. There is no 'Christian' nation state.
It is a philosophical question.
Assuming a bunch of Christians are living in a certain land and enemies of the Christians want to live on part of their land and resort to terrorist acts to get what they want... What should the Christians response be?
As with a lot of philosophical questions, it is not valid.
Israel is a nation not a religeous community living in a nation. They are a nation. I don't know if behind your question is really that they are jews. That of course would be antisemitism.
The only valid comparison would be, should a nation such as the USA just forgive all those who commit murder, because that is the Christian thing to do. You would have anarchy within weeks!
There is no antisemitism whatsoever in my thought or my question.
Lets just change the facts.
1000 Christians live on some land out west in the US that they own in community. They have worked hard to purchase the land and have established homes, farms etc. Non Christian enemies want their land or a portion of it and resort to acts of terrorism to force the Christians to hand over their land.
What should be the response of the Christians?
I don't have an answer; just looking for a discussion.
Michael Sattler, one of the early Anabaptists, was faced with a similar question. The country he was living in was at war with the Moslem Turks. Could he as A Christian under the Lordship of Christ take up arms against an enemy of the nation state he was residing in.
After wrestling with the teachings of Christ reflected in the Sermon on the Mount. Particularly regarding love of enemies. Sattler decided to not bear arms against the Turks.
When one studies the writings of the Anabaptists this was more than a philosophical question. But it was how one lives out the reality of being a follower of Jesus Christ by taking up their cross.
The greatest injustice ever done on the face of this planet was done by evil men against Jesus. Peter was prepared to draw a sword to defend Jesus. Yet Jesus told him to put his sword away. For all who take up the sword will die by the sword. Jesus also said that His Father would put at His disposal more than twelve legions of angels.
The above account recorded in Mat. 26:51-54 should serve as an example of how we respond to our enemies as Christians. If Jesus had wanted us to take up the carnal weapons of man to defend ourselves. Then He would have allowed Peter to take um all on.
Instead Jesus said from the cross Father forgive them for they know not what they do (Lk 24:34). This is our example to forgive our enemies who come against us.
Respectfully my thoughts.
Blaine
TMK,
In changing the facts, you have changed the question and it bears no relation to your original question.
This new question is about a group if Christians living in the USA and how they should respond to acts of terrorism against them. In this circumstance I would say they should be governed by the law of Christ and love their enemies to the point of suffering loss and possibly death.
Now to try and relate this to Israel & Hamas you have to compare Israel to the USA as they are both nation states. So should the USA government in which these terrorist are attacking the Christians also let them have their way? Or should they uphold the rule of law and protect ALL their citizens? What is the God ordained principle for governments according to Romans 13.
I just should not have used the Israel/Hamas connection. My bad.
My intent was to discuss what the Christian response to acts of terrorism should be.
Bear I appreciate your response regarding Michael Sattler.
I think the response is easier if just I am being affected. But if they are coming after my wife or grandkids it gets more difficult.
Hi TMK, lets narrow it down a little. What if you went out on the town one evening wearing a coat and a cloak ( okay, people dont wear cloaks any more but bear with me) Someone comes up and robs you of your coat, a coat you worked hard to buy. What do you do? Do you resist him or do you give him your cloak also? When you have the answer to that question feel free to extrapolate :) .......bro Frank
Dave as I understand Romans 13:1-7 God ordained governments to keep order. In other words God ordains governments to.keep us from reverting to the law of the jungle.
It stands to reason that governments have a responsibility to protect their citizens. For scripture days this is why we pay taxes.Thus as Christians we are to pay our taxes as unpleasant as that may be. Also to submit to the laws of Caesar as they are given to keep order.
Now for the question under discussion. What if the government compelled by law Christians to take up arms against an invading army? I will keep the discussion to the OP as such a discussion as this could go in any direction.
Blaine
Hi frank-
I know your question was rhetorical and I know what the answer is or should be.
Back to the Israeli/Hamas thing. ... Lets propose a purely hypothetical (but certainly not impossible) scenario where all or at least a great majority of the Israelis were converted to Christianity.
What then should their response to Hamas be?
I guess I keep coming back to that conflict because I find myself wondering what Jesus would like to see done over there. Is it what the Israelis are now doing, or something else?
Blaine,
In answer to your question, it would be a matter on individual conscience in that situation. Either choice is not wrong in my opinion. This is the whole non resistance argument again. We have been here before and no point replaying it again.
Now what is interesting is the USA and UK have got themselves involved in wars such as Afghanistan and Iraq which are thousands of miles from their native soil, have no direct threat of invasion, went on for many years and IMO have proved to be pointless with many thousands of wasted lives sacrificed for nothing. This would be a situation where any person should object to it being morally bankrupt and refuse to be involved in.
Now when the direct threat is actually on your soil and your very existence is at stake (like in Israel) this is a whole different matter. But the Western world turns things upside down and justifies the unjust wars and condemns the legitimate self defence. What is very sad is when Christians also take this same twisted position.
TMK, you asked "I guess I keep coming back to that conflict because I find myself wondering what Jesus would like to see done over there."
Well here is what Jesus WILL do over there......
And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.
Revelation 19:11-16
In the mean time He wants as many as will to repent and not be subject to the wrath of the Lamb when He comes back in judgement. But let's not take an unbalanced view of God's will as just being forgiving and merciful. Thank God He is that, but He is also righteous and will judge sin.
does jesus contradict john the baptise ,,would god send john the baptise to prepare the way of the lord with false preaching or repentence ,,did not john say to the romon solders be content with your wages ,,or was john in sin ,should john have said ,renounce being a solder when he called them to repent ,,,,,it is clear that god through john did not call the solders to quit there jobs when he called them to repent ,,,,so it can not be a sin in this instance to be involved in national sercurity
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