sermonindex
Apr 20, 2005
Y'all should check this website out...www.templemountfaithful.orgAll I can say is... Jesus is coming sooner than any of us think.Krispy
Y'all should check this website out...www.templemountfaithful.orgAll I can say is... Jesus is coming sooner than any of us think.Krispy
Alrighty then.....How can they build this temple, if the Dome of the Rock occupies it?If that ever gets removed, the Muslim world will make sure that the temple will never be built.But for clarity, can someone please tell me where in holy writ is this prophesied temple supposed to be built in the future?Karl
How can they build this temple, if the Dome of the Rock occupies it?If that ever gets removed, the Muslim world will make sure that the temple will never be built.But for clarity, can someone please tell me where in holy writ is this prophesied temple supposed to be built in the future?Karl, I'm glad you asked that, my brother! Did you read the updates & news section of that website where it discusses the earth quake that hit Israel last year? It did signifigant structural and roof damage to the Dome of the Rock... now isnt that interesting?Anyway... I am sometimes a little leary of Hal Lindsay, but I think on this group he has nailed it pretty good. This goes along with my understanding of the temple that this group is trying to rebuild... check this out: "The rebuilding of temple is not the cause of the Messiah's coming. It is an essential part of the world conditions that must exist at the time just before Messiah's coming. But the temple will not be His temple. It will be a false Temple that will be destroyed when the Messiah returns. According to Hebrew prophecy, the Messiah Himself will build the true Temple, after He comes. Israelites that rebuild this coming temple will be double-crossed by a person known in prophecy as the Antichrist who apparently negotiates the political conditions for it to be rebuilt. The Prophet Daniel and the Apostles Paul and John all predict that the Antichrist will cause the normal sacrifices and offerings to cease after three and a half years in order to set up an image of himself in the holiest place of the Temple. This is technically called in Hebrew prophecy "The Abomination of Desolation." I have been questioned in the past as to why I am so interested in the rebuilding of the Temple. The answer is that it absolutely must be rebuilt to set the stage for the climactic events that will bring Jesus the Messiah back. The return of the Israelites to the land and the rebirth of the state of Israel were the beginning of the prophetic signs that have come together into a precisely predicted scenario. The beginning of the rebuilding of the Temple will be one of the final predicted signs that signal the Messiah's coming is only a little more than seven years away. It will also mean that those who have come to a personal faith in Jesus Christ are about to blast off into another realm. Many preparations have already been done by groups like the Temple Mount Faithful and the Temple Institute. Most of the intricate furniture for the Temple has already been made. Priests have been trained in the precise Mosaic method of offering the various sacrifices. Plans for rapidly building the Temple have been prepared. All this, along with the fact that a man of the caliber of Gershon Salomon believes that God has called him to rebuild the Temple in this generation, shows us just how breathtakingly close the Messiah's coming must be." Krispy
If that ever gets removed, the Muslim world will make sure that the temple will never be built.By the way... just 100 years ago no one ever believed that the nation of Israel would ever again exist... and that Jews from all over the world would migrate to the orginal land that God gave them 4,000 years earlier... but it happened.... just as it was prophesied in scripture.Nothing is impossible for the God I serve!Hellelujah!Krispy
Hal Lindsay wrote: Israelites that rebuild this coming temple will be double-crossed by a person known in prophecy as the Antichrist who apparently negotiates the political conditions for it to be rebuilt. The Prophet Daniel and the Apostles Paul and John all predict that the Antichrist will cause the normal sacrifices and offerings to cease after three and a half years in order to set up an image of himself in the holiest place of the Temple. This is technically called in Hebrew prophecy "The Abomination of Desolation."Ok, The problem is this, the place that Hal and everyone else gets this so called "Peace Treaty" with Israel for one week, and in the middle of the week he will cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Daniel 9:27Daniel 9:27 says, "And He shall confirm the convenant with many for one week and in the midst of the week He shall be cut of, but not for Himself, cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease and for the overspreading of abominations He shall make it desolate........"I capitalize the "He" because this is referring to Jesus Christ. In order for the prophecy thumpers to get a 7 year tribulation it must come from this verse in order for them to make everything fit in their future scheme.Christ came in the 70th week, He came to confirm the Abrahamic covenant that God made to Abraham. In the middle of the week (by His death) He shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease. Tho the unbelieving Jews continued sacrificing animals, their sacrifices became an abomination to God."To what purpose is the multitude of your sacrifices unto me? saith the LORD: I am full of the burnt offerings of rams, and the fat of fed beasts; and I delight not in the blood of bullocks, or of lambs, or of he goats.12 When ye come to appear before me, who hath required this at your hand, to tread my courts?13 Bring no more vain oblations; incense is an abomination unto me; the new moons and sabbaths, the calling of assemblies, I cannot away with; it is iniquity, even the solemn meeting.14 Your new moons and your appointed feasts my soul hateth: they are a trouble unto me; I am weary to bear them.15 And when ye spread forth your hands, I will hide mine eyes from you: yea, when ye make many prayers, I will not hear: your hands are full of blood." Isaiah1:11-15They need Daniel 9:27 to read this way, "And he shall make a peace treaty with Israel for seven years and the midst of the seven years he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease".Actually they have already done so, because that is how people have preceived to mean.Karl
Are the Jews that occupy Israel today, Jews?I can prove that they are not, but I started to do the history of this, and I may as well write a book, it's just to much, and I wouldn't do anyone justice by writing it here, because you need to see it all in order to form a right opinion. And then at the end I would be counted as an Anti Semitic and be thrown in jail for 'crimes against humanity' (little bit of Q's logic)Karl :-(
See... now we're headed into waters that I admit I'm not real comfortable trying to navigate. I'm all for learning! I understand the basics... but perhaps maybe someone with a little more knowledg about this can jump in and help us out...Anyone?Krispy
Karl... do you ever get the feeling that our threads (your's and mine) pretty much turn into conversations between just the two of us... :-P But thats ok, you're pretty kool to hang with.Krispy
It seems to be that way Krispy.But one things for sure, we have an audience that is reading it. Your insights are noteworthy, and our flavour for books are exceptional. But I know when people are in Wedensday night service and Sunday service, this site is slow during that time. Just a trickle of postings.Karl 8-)
:-)(Just to break the ice a bit)
See... now we're headed into waters that I admit I'm not real comfortable trying to navigate. I'm all for learning! I understand the basics... but perhaps maybe someone with a little more knowledg about this can jump in and help us out...Do you have plastocene over there? It is a rubbery modelling substance much loved by children, but not their mothers who have to dig it out of the carpet! When I read the above I got a picture of my younger brother aged about 3.(over 50 years ago now) Plastocene comes in 7 vivid colours, but when mixed together they produce grey. I recall seeing my little brother with a big ball of grey plastocene pleading with our father; 'unmix it Daddy, unmix it'! ;-) He that hath ears to hear...
As a preacher said in a sermon i was listening to on the way home ... "God is good for telling us what will happen, but exactly when and how it will happen we just have to wait and see, as any attempts to figure the latter is futile" ... What we do know (those of us who believe such) from scripture is that somewhere in the future because God says so, in a third Jewish temple not yet existent, anti-christ will do the same thing that ...Antiochus Epiphanes:http://latter-rain.com/ot/antep.htm ... did in the Holy of Holies in the second ...Dan.12[1] And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.[2] And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.[3] And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.[4] But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.[5] Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.[6] And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?[7] And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.[8] And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?[9] And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.[10] Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.[11] And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.[12] Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.[13] But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.Mark.13[3] And as he sat upon the mount of Olives over against the temple, Peter and James and John and Andrew asked him privately,[4] Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign when all these things shall be fulfilled?[5] And Jesus answering them began to say, Take heed lest any man deceive you:[6] For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.[7] And when ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars, be ye not troubled: for such things must needs be; but the end shall not be yet.[8] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be earthquakes in divers places, and there shall be famines and troubles: these are the beginnings of sorrows.[9] But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.[10] And the gospel must first be published among all nations.[11] But when they shall lead you, and deliver you up, take no thought beforehand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but whatsoever shall be given you in that hour, that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Ghost.[12] Now the brother shall betray the brother to death, and the father the son; and children shall rise up against their parents, and shall cause them to be put to death.[13] And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[14] But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains:[15] And let him that is on the housetop not go down into the house, neither enter therein, to take any thing out of his house:[16] And let him that is in the field not turn back again for to take up his garment.[17] But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days![18] And pray ye that your flight be not in the winter.[19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.[20] And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.
Do you have plastocene over there? It is a rubbery modelling substance much loved by children, but not their mothers who have to dig it out of the carpet! When I read the above I got a picture of my younger brother aged about 3.(over 50 years ago now) Plastocene comes in 7 vivid colours, but when mixed together they produce grey. I recall seeing my little brother with a big ball of grey plastocene pleading with our father; 'unmix it Daddy, unmix it'! Great analogy... I probably did open a pandora's box. But hey, at least I can admit when I dont have all the answers... But I'm a "hands on learner". No better way for me to learn than to jump right in.Krispy
Brother Karl you wrote;"Are the Jews that occupy Israel today, Jews?I can prove that they are not" ...Hmmmm ... That's almost (to me) like asking if African Americans (via interacial mixings) in America today are Africans? ... At which point i'd say not by birth, but certainly by descent ... By early racist American standards just a dribble of African American blood in a European was enough to make him a Negro ... Of course Jews don't have that tell-tell skin tone that automatically classes them a African or at least tinged (or tainted as white supremicist promote) by that Motherland ... What percentage of Jewish DNA/blood do you think it might take to constitute a Jew a Jew, or is there some other measuring stick? ... How can you prove Jews in Israel today are not Jews? ... Why would you want to? ... :-? ... i certainly understand why certain segments of our satanically inspired population would love to do so ... For them it's any means necessary to discount Jesus return ...If i'm mistaken then please correct me but in Matt 24. was Jesus the Jew, answering the questions posed by His 12 Jewish disciples, about what would be happening to regathered Jews (what we know now that the probably didn't know then) in the last days? ... Aren't regathered Jews key to the fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy of such, and toward the rebuilding of the third Temple?Bottom line for me (and i say "me" because i'm not gonna debate anyone who thinks otherwise) is that God apparently by this scripture ...Rev.7[4] And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.[5] Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.[6] Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nepthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.[7] Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.[8] Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.... not only conciders that there are Jews in regathered Israel, but also whose pure enough in lineage to be divided out as His first fruits by tribes ... We may intentionally or unintentionally come up with all kinds of ideas, theories, etc., that may counter or discount events of end time prophecy via the weakness of we finite men attempting to decipher the infinite God, but if God says it in His Book it's bound to happen whether we believe it, concieve, undersatnd it or reject it ... Thank God He's not phased at all in His doings by what we can or can't comprehend ... :-D
Alrighty then........Taking Revelation 7, let us consider one thing here, if this is a true representation of the nation of Israel OR it is symbolic and means something else, where then is the tribe of DAN in Revelation 7?And more importantly, why were they removed?Karl
ye were at that time without Christ, aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: but now in Christ Jesus *ye* who once were afar off are become nigh by the blood of the Christ. For *he* is our peace, who has made both one, and has broken down the middle wall of enclosure,having annulled the enmity in his flesh, the law of commandments in ordinances, that he might form the two in himself into one new man, making peace(Ephesians 2:13-15 Darby)What God has joined together let no man divide asunder. Can there really be a purpose in moving from the Reality back to the shadows?Just a couple of thoughts.
Taco wrote:What God has joined together let no man divide asunder. Can there really be a purpose in moving from the Reality back to the shadows?EXACTLY!!! Well put.Karl
Brother Karl you wrote:"Taking Revelation 7, let us consider one thing here, if this a true representation of the nation of Israel OR it is symbolic and means something else, where then is the tribe of DAN in Revelation 7?And more importantly, why"?i see Rev. 7 as literal which in part is what i based my post on, others see it as symbolic, which is why i said i'd not debate it ad-infinitum or ad-nauseum because it's not a point of view that can really be proven to "certainty" on both sides ... And as to Dan i certainly don't know why it's ommited, but on all this God does, and as last resort to any inward questions or outward impasses of discussion my faith rests there ... So i desist in this that i concider the unprovable point, as time will tell, and wish to gravitate again to your point of "certainty" that you said you can prove ...Quote:"Are the Jews that occupy Israel today, Jews?I can prove that they are not" ...So brother Karl again i ask ... - How can you prove Jews in Israel today are not Jews? ... i'd really like to know this ... And ...- If i'm mistaken then please correct me but in Matt 24. was Jesus the Jew, answering the questions posed by His 12 Jewish disciples, about what would be happening to regathered Jews (what we know now that the probably didn't know then) in the last days? ... Aren't regathered Jews key to the fulfilment of Isaiah's prophecy of such, and toward the rebuilding of the third Temple?
Rahman your asking me a question that will take more pages to discuss and I must desist.But your already head strong in what you believe, so why should I waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced or even be open for convincing.Thanks for opening up another discussion concerning the twelve tribes, tho.Karl
Brother Karl you wrote;"Rahman your asking me a question that will take more pages to discuss and I must desist.But your already head strong in what you believe, so why should I waste my time and energy trying to convince someone who doesn't want to be convinced or even be open for convincing".Brother Karl,i love you man ... :-D But what you just posted is like you being a lawyer (prosecutor) trying to convince a jury (me) with the summary "i can prove the present Jew in Israel is guilty of not being a Jew but due to the volume of my proof you'll just have to take my word for it and convict them on my word alone" ... And then when the jury comes back with a "not guilty verdict for reasonable doubt" you dismiss the jury's decision as being due to their being headstrong and unconvinceable" ... Man, what a "double-bind"! ... Well if that's your criteria for "headstrong them yep, that's me! ... Wait a minute are you a "lawyer"? ... Just trying to make my point with some humor here ... :-P :-P :-P i'm sorry to have been a waste of your time tho bro, didn't mean to be, :-o but hope i'm somewhat redeemed by sparking the opening up of your "Dan" thread ... So you're welcome ... and i'll be looking in on it to see what folk say ... :-D
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