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A possible scenario for end times.

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

This subject can be very difficult to approach today because there have been so many crazy people claiming when the end of the world would happen. The below scenario reckons on the saints going through the great tribulation. Therefore there is no particular day or hour that is looked for, rather a season, birth pangs if you like. We are told by Jesus that we should be able to discern the signs of the times, not the day nor the hour of His return. In any event, most Peoples of the world and the church have a difficult time imagining a time where Christians would be hunted down and killed for the mere fact of being Christian. They may be able to imagine this in a Muslim world setting, but not in the West. I do not claim that the scenario below is prophetic, I merely wish to show you a logical procession of events that could lead to a world-wide persecution of the true saints.

I think we may all agree that Jesus is coming relatively soon. Where we may disagree is on the subject of rapture. Lets assume there is no rapture and Jesus is coming soon, then the saints will go through the great tribulation. The Scriptures tells us that it will be worse than anything that has ever happened before in history, in fact the Lord must shorten those days for the elects sake or we would all be dead.

Just 70 years ago, in the heart of educated and cultured Europe, in a country that pronounced itself to be Christian, an evil man arose and in six short years, killed six million Jews for the mere fact of being Jewish. He shoved them into gas chambers and then burned them in furnaces, men, woman and children, sparing none. Now this is not some Biblical genocide from the ancient world, this is something that happened just 70 years ago. Now what kind of events would need to unfold for the world to turn on Christians and for their to be a coming together of the world religions into one religion?

Lets say tomorrow there is an attack by Muslim extremists on multiple cities. New York, Washington, London, Paris Rome and Moscow are hit simultaneously with nuclear suitcase bombs. Rather than the three thousand dead of 9/11, there is one hundred thousand dead in each city. The world is repulsed and is brought together because of this great tragedy. Fundamentalists of all stripes are universally condemned and outlawed. To state publicly that there is only one true religion, only one way to heaven, becomes illegal. Such people are denounced as those who have caused all the troubles in the world. They are seen as a cancer on society which society must rid itself of.

So society gives them a chance to renounce such believes. At the same time, the major religions of the world have a summit. Islam, Christianity and the Jewish faith come together for a summit in Rome. Pope Francis leads the summit because he is universally respected. When the meeting is over they announce that they can all trace their roots back to Abraham. That they all worship the same God just in different ways. They announce that there are multiple roads to heaven and that to say otherwise is merely hate speech. They agree to drop Jesus and Mohammed from their literature and only speak in terms of God and His prophets, agreeing to stand upon what they agree on and bringing a historic unity that will usher in a new day, a new order for the world where there is equality for all.

The vast majority of the world hail this and rejoice in it. A small minority resist it and in the shadow of the multiple hundreds and thousands of deaths, the world hates them with a perfect hatred. They hate them more than the Germans hated the Jews. The minority cannot find work and are ultimately arrested for continuing to ” share the Gospel.” While they are a minority, they are still in the millions and camps are set up to imprison them because the prison system cannot contain them. An ever-growing hatred by the general public and resentment that they have to be fed and kept eventually leads to the decision to make it a capital offense punishable by death to be a fundamental Christian.

If I had time and space, I could weave into that scenario the rise of the anti-christ who orchestrates all of those events and performs signs and wonders and miracles in front of the whole world to legitimize what he and the Pope and the religious leaders are teaching and saying about the minority, the remnant who refused to bow their knees to such a world religion. I want you to imagine such a man, before the camera’s of the world, healing a man blind from birth, or raising a man from the dead. The whole world will follow after such a man, and the world religious leaders who are now one would verify that he is in fact, God returned.

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TMK Aug 3, 2014

One thing to consider is whether the fact that there WAS a hurler would remind us not to tolerate men like him in the future. I would hope do but of course there is no guarantee.

I would like to think that people in the US would not stand for such tyranny but again who knows.

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MaryJane Aug 3, 2014

Greetings Frank

Reading over what you shared and then thinking of the mentality of people in general I do think this is very possible. Already Christians who do not compromise are considered a threat by groups like planned parenthood, and the gay community. There are those who are fine with religious tradition as long as they are kept to Sunday and kept in there place. People who hold firm to Biblical truth and stand firm on GOD'S WORD are called haters and there are already those who would make speaking the BIBLE a crime.

As you said I don't know how it will come or when, but I do know that the storm is very nearly upon us.

God bless
maryjane

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

Very good, thanks brother. But does there even have to be worldwide catastrophe...the religions seem to already becoming one right before our eyes?

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brothagary Aug 3, 2014

i dont think it will happen like that ,,not a chance

the bible teaches the antchrist will be from turkey which is a musim country

the madi will come and the world except him as the messia figure

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

Hi bro,

I do believe there has to be a catalyst. That is not to say that the building blocks are not being put into place right now, in fact the process has been ongoing for a long time. Hitler arose because of the crash of 29 that plunged Germany into hyper-inflation and made a path forward possible for a group that was waning. The German conservatives were so terrified of Communism that they opted to use the lesser of two evils in an attempt to control it, thinking they could also control Hitler.

Terrorism is the bogey man of today and the world has went to enormous lengths to control it. So when they strike in a global sense, this will open up the way for a new world order, an order that is free from bigotry and religious hatred. The utopian dreamers will see this as an opportunity to rid itself once and for all of the " cancerous," elements of society that stand upon the Word of God and believe that there is only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus. The actual force behind all of this is the enemy. What he thinks he is planning to bring about the destruction of Christianity will actually only bring about the fulfillment of John 17. Under this intense worldwide persecution, genuine saints will walk as one so that the world will know that God sent Jesus.

The religious elements of the west, which is the vast majority of Christendom will embrace all of these moves and will actually be responsible in great part for turning in genuine saints to the authorities. They will do that for many different reasons which can be discussed, but do it they will, and they will believe that they are doing the world and God a service...........bro Frank

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

Hi MaryJane,

Indeed the storm is almost upon is. You are correct, people who hold fats to the Word of God are called haters. We are already lumped into categories of terror groups by Government agencies. Born again Christians in Britain find it impossible to even adopt children anymore because of their " outdated and bigoted views." We are already by much of society with great suspicion. Yet this was exactly the position the early church found themselves in. As it was in the beginning, so it shall be in the end.

"They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.” (2 Thes 2:10)

"People will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money, boastful, proud, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy.”(2Tim 3:2)

"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth.” (2Thess 2:9)

The love of the truth is something that we receive as genuine saints from God. It is a fire in our bones, it is as much a part of us as our arms are legs, in fact more so for we could live without our arms or legs, but the fire in our bones comes from our spirit which comes from God. In every century God’s people have suffered and died for the Truth and their love of it. As it was in those days, so it is today. People love many things , themselves, money, position their spouses and their children but the one great love of the saints life, that eclipses all other loves is their love of the Truth in the person of Jesus and His word........bro Frank

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TMK Aug 3, 2014

If the scenario is true do Christians have to turn themselves in to the guillotines or will they be allowed to resist?

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

The thing is the world has grown smaller and people are linked more globally. A catastrophic event in one nation can have a devastating impact on the global economy. So the sceneries laid out in the OP is very plausible.

I need to do some Google research but I do believe after the break up of the Soviet Union there were some missing suit case bombs that disappeared out of the Russian nuclear arsenal.

If the guillotine is to play a part in the mass beheadings that Revelation 20 speaks of. Then where did the guillotine come from. Try France. La Madam Guillotine executed many thousands during the French Revolution. I only share this to say that the Antichrist could very well come from the west. Maybe even America.

My thoughts.

Bearmaster.

sermonindex Aug 3, 2014

Did some Google searches on missing nuclear suit case bombs from Russia. Pretty scary stuff were it not for faith in Christ.

Frank's scenario in the OP is very realistic. I would not dismiss it lightly.

Blaine

sermonindex Aug 4, 2014

Hi TMK,

"Allowed to resist?" To what purpose? If the anti-christ rises and then the Lord returns, the world has then come to an end. We resist as we were taught in the Scriptures to resist. We render not evil for evil, we love our enemies, we forgive our enemies for they know not what they do to us. Even although we shall be led as lambs to the slaughter, our battle is not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers and spiritual wickedness in high places. If we can be let down in baskets and flee to the next town or city or place of temporary refuge and sanctuary then that is what we should do, if that is what the Lord wants us to do. We must hear His voice for ourselves. When persecution came to Jerusalem, the saints were scattered and when they were scattered they took the gospel message with them. Yet the Disciples stayed in Jerusalem. Most left, some stayed, God knows, follow God by His Holy Spirit, He will lead us and guide us.........bro Frank

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brothagary Aug 4, 2014

just some suplimentry imfo i found

not long ago i was watching some sermons from walid sheobat and was impressed at what showed from scripture ,,,this brother here that wrote this has the same exegit from memory ,,the one thing he did not mention was a proiphecy that the man of sin comes from edom,,which is part of present day turkey

if anyone has studied the differenece estoligical outcomes from the bible and islamic teachings ,,one will see that that the christanian antichrist ..is the madi the islamic messia ,,and the antchrist of islam ,is the christ our lord ,,i verry blatent twist that will prime the the world to recieve the madi antichrist as the savour of the world ,,even newagers are expecting him to come ,,


From where the Antichrist will come.

In the First Testament, the prophets Isaiah, Ezekiel and Daniel provided a great deal of information about the Antichrist. With what is revealed in the Second Testament we can know from where the Antichrist will come.

Daniel received a prophecy from God revealing that the Antichrist will confirm a treaty guaranteeing Israel’s security. Then, after 3 ½ years, the Antichrist will set himself up in the Jewish Temple and proclaim that he is God. This abomination will initiate the Great Tribulation which will last 3 ½ years.

At the end of the Great Tribulation, Christ will return, establish His Kingdom on earth and destroy the Antichrist. First, the Antichrist will be Israel’s protector before he attempts destroy everyone who refuses to worship him.

Daniel referred to the Antichrist as "the leader who will come, the little horn, the beast and the stern faced king."

In Daniel 11, he also referred to the Antichrist as the king of the North. The king of the North and the land of the North is what Jeremiah called the territory of the Assyria and Babylon. The Assyrian Empire was conquered by the Babylonians in 626 B.C. Both the Assyrian capital of Asshur and the Babylonian capital of Babylon were located in present day Iraq, see map below.

These empires essentially comprised the same territory which included present day Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Lebanon, Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Egypt.

Present Day Middle Eastern Countries

In Ezekiel 38 and 39 the Antichrist’s two campaigns against Israel are interwoven in the prophecy. Included are details of the Antichrist and his armies coming against Israel at the beginning of the Great Tribulation. The prophecy also describes the Antichrist and his armies coming against Jerusalem at the end of the age.

Ezekiel refers to the Antichrist as Gog, the chief prince, from the land of Magog. The ancient land of Magog included some of the territory represented by present day Turkey, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Georgia, Armenia, Azerbajan, and Russia near the Black Sea.

Isaiah referred to the Antichrist as the Assyrian and the king of Assyria. One of Isaiah’s several prophecies on the topic tells how Israel will at first rely on the Assyrian until he beats them with the club. But, then finally they will turn to the Holy One of Israel. This description depicts the last 7 years of the Time of the End when the Antichrist will be Israel’s protector (first 3.5 years) until he attempts to wipe them out in the Great Tribulation (last 3.5 years).

Isaiah’s prophecy also says that a remnant of Israel will turn to Yahweh and be saved from the Antichrist. When Isaiah refers to the Antichrist as the Assyrian, he is indicating from where the Antichrist will come. Ancient Assyria included territories represented by present day Turkey, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq and Iran.

Jesus, John and Paul spoke about the Antichrist. Jesus called the Antichrist 'the abomination that causes desolation.' Paul called the Antichrist 'the man of lawlessness' and 'the lawless one.' However, neither Jesus nor Paul indicated from where the Antichrist would come.

In Revelation 13, John said that the Antichrist and his kingdom would be like a lion, a leopard and a bear. Daniel used these likenesses for the Babylonian, Media-Persian and Greek Empires.

The Bible again and again indicates that the Antichrist will come from the Middle East.

With biblical prophecy consistently pointing to the Middle East as the origin of the Antichrist, why do some people believe that the Antichrist will come from a revived Roman Empire like the European Common Market?

This deception is from a sentence in Daniel 9:26 which says, "The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.”

One subject of Daniel 9:26 above, is "the people", the other is "the ruler who will come".

The people will be of the same people as the ruler who will come. This means the people and the ruler will be of the same national origin. If the people are Greek then the leader in question will be Greek. So, when we know the national origin of the people we will also know the national origin of the leader.

Part of this prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Roman army destroyed Jerusalem and the Jewish sanctuary. According Josephus, the people that destroyed the sanctuary were predominately Syrian.

Some people have incorrectly assumed that, because it was a Roman army, the people who destroyed the city and the sanctuary were Romans. However, it was customary for Rome to conscript soldiers from territories they had conquered. In this campaign the Roman troops were predominately Syrians.

Therefore, the ruler who will come will be of Syrian origin. Syria, at that time, included some of the territory of present day Syria, Lebanon and Turkey.

The ruler who will come is the Antichrist which is confirmed in Daniel 9:27. Daniel identifies the ruler who will come this way.


"He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And on a wing of the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him"

Therefore, Daniel is indicating in this prophecy that the Antichrist will come from the Middle East.

Richard H Perry

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ginnyrose Aug 4, 2014

And then there is Revelation 11:8:

Rev 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.

Jerusalem spiritually called Sodom and Gomorrah...how close are we to seeing this? I posted this in the News and current events forum. I will post the link here also:

http://christiannews.net/2014/08/02/israeli-wedding-hall-remains-closed-after-christians-ordered-to-host-gay-ceremonies/

sermonindex Aug 5, 2014

Hi brothergary,

That is one big definate out of a lot of supposition. Many people have many theories and none of them are proven, which negates us ruling out any out of hand, for none of us know. When Germany took over lands in the east, they used many soldiers from the Ukraine and Latvia and lithuania to be part of death squads. Yet it was the German army, the German leadership and the German Nazis responsible for the massacres that took place. The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and it is very likely that the anti-christ will come out of the revived Roman Empire. If one looks at America as a Republic, with a Senate and a congress, we see a revived Roman empire built by the peoples of the Roman Empire. And who better to negotiate a peace in the middle east? Turkey? No, the most powerful country the world has ever seen. A revival of the Roman empire only much much stronger. The American president is and will be for the foreseeable future, the strongest man in the world with the most deadliest arsenal at his fingertips. No one could withstand America if it chose to be truly dominant. It has not up till now. Yet in the time to come, a strong man will emerge out of world chaos and bring all of these chaotic forces to heel and the world will love him for it. Add to that signs and wonders and miracles right there on CNN and Fox and cable networks around the world, the world will gasp to know that god has stepped down. The religious leaders, led by the false prophet, the pope, will confirm that this man is indeed god come down amongst us to bring peace with a sword. This of course is merely a theory, I do not say that you are wrong brother, for who amongst us truly knows?.....bro Frank

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murrcolr Aug 5, 2014

Quote: The Romans destroyed Jerusalem and it is very likely that the anti-christ will come out of the revived Roman Empire.

According to Daniel, the Antichrist will come from among the people who destroyed the Temple. Therefore, we can be certain that the Antichrist will come from among the Roman people.

However, coming from among the Roman people does not automatically mean that the Antichrist will be of Italian heritage or Roman ethnicity. It simply means he must come from among the people who were part of the Roman Empire at that time. From an ethnic standpoint, this leaves the door open to countless possibilities. The Roman Empire covered most of the known world in its day, and Roman citizenship was extended to many non-Italian peoples. Apostle Paul can be used as an example of this as you could say he was a Jewish-Roman.

Daniel chapter 8 provides us with further clues in regard to the life and times of the Antichrist. In it, the angel Gabriel explains Daniel's vision of a ram and a goat as events relating to the Greek empire of Alexander the Great. In a claim verified by history, Gabriel states that following the death of Alexander, the empire will be divided into four parts. From one of those four parts, the Antichrist will arise: Dan 8:21-24.

Daniel 11 provides an in-depth examination of the history of the breakup Alexander's empire, describing historical events relating to the king of the North and the king of the South. The latter part of the chapter describes the Antichrist, identifying him with other historical figures who have held the title "king of the North." This, along with the passage cited above, clearly links the Antichrist to the northern kingdom of the divided Greek Empire. This kingdom was ruled by one of Alexander's generals, Seleucus, who ruled the areas of Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.

Therefore, it is reasonable to assume that the Antichrist will in some way be linked to this geographic area of the Middle East.

Who better is there to negotiate a peace in the middle east? The leader of a Islamic Caliphate who rules Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.

Edit: spelling

sermonindex Aug 5, 2014

Murrcolr,

What happens in the middle east happens because America allows it to happen. Make no mistake, America supplies most of the heavy weapons to most of the regimes of the Middle East, and plows billions of dollars into all parties. It could be argued that without American arms the parties would have a difficult time killing each other. The point being, only an entity as powerful as America can broker a peace, compel a peace, on unwilling partners. The world has never seen America actually exercise it's true power, only glimpses of it now and again. America has more strategic nuclear weapons that all the other eight nuclear powers combined.

Peoples came from all over the former Roman Empire and built this country into the most powerful wealthiest country the world has ever known. In the last four years I have been to Washington DC and Rome. The similarities are striking, absolutely striking............bro Frank

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murrcolr Aug 5, 2014

Quote: What happens in the middle east happens because America allows it to happen.

No, what happens in the Middle East happens because God allows it. America may supply the weapons but at the end of the day it's to fulfil God's plans and purposes.

Quote: The point being, only an entity as powerful as America can broker a peace, compel a peace, on unwilling partners.

The most powerful nation in the world has failed and will continually fail to bring peace.

But the Anti-Christ will arise and "by peace shall he destroy many”

sermonindex Aug 5, 2014

Murrcolr, what happens in the whole world is because God allows it to happen, that is a given, we are talking about possible end time scenarios.

The scenario is that the anti-christ arises in America and brings peace through strength in the Middle East.......bro Frank

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murrcolr Aug 5, 2014

Quote:The scenario is that the anti-christ arises in America and brings peace through strength in the Middle East.......bro Frank

But that doesn't fit into scripture. Scripture clearly links the Antichrist to the northern kingdom of the divided Greek Empire. This kingdom was ruled by one of Alexander's generals, Seleucus, who ruled the areas of Syria, Mesopotamia, and Persia.


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drifter Aug 5, 2014

That's pretty much how I see it happening. The Papacy is already trying to bring all the world religions together.

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