Under Grace, Not Law

When you say "grace teaches us" what does that mean?

I always thought grace meant "unmerited favor" that is getting something we haven't earned. How does grace "teach" something? I have always thought of grace as a concept not a "force" that does something.

In other words it is BECAUSE of grace that we should live godly lives; it is not grace that does this TO us.

I hope I am being clear because it is a little difficult to explain.

oh noooo blain is at it again

TMK: "I always thought grace meant "unmerited favor" that is getting something we haven't earned. How does grace "teach" something? I have always thought of grace as a concept not a "force" that does something."

A common misunderstanding of biblical grace and which is commonly taught is that it is just underserved favour and confuses it with mercy. However when you study out what biblical grace is you find it is actually something God gives to us in terms of enabling power. That would include power to overcome sin and live a godly life.

A good definition I heard based on biblical use of grace was that 'it is God's power and presence to enable us to be and to do what He want asks us to be and do'.

This of course is undeserved, but it is an enabling power not just a concept.

Taking time to study out grace in the bible is a very beneficial activity.

I believe unmerited favour is the grace part and then knowing that your salvation is from a Holy God who no longer condemns you for wrong behaviour but will convict you by His spirit. That's the teaching part.

John 16v8 :
And when he has come he will convict the world of sin and righteousness and judgment. I believe it's this conviction of sin without condemnation that teaches us.

When we become saved we are no longer slaves of sin. But we aren't left in a place of not knowing as well, we are now in a position of being a slave to righteousness. I believe spiritually there's no middle ground that anyone can now rest in.

Hey Dave, I thought that what you said about grace being an enabling power is good. Can you come up with anything more on that? A verse or something

A good definition I heard based on biblical use of grace was that 'it is God's power and presence to enable us to be and to do what He want asks us to be and do'.

This of course is undeserved, but it is an enabling power not just a concept.

Taking time to study out grace in the bible is a very beneficial activity.

Here's a word study on "grace" which I came across recently: http://www.bible-researcher.com/grace.html

Many thanks for that Yuehan.

I agree with Heydave that grace is more a divine enabling power to overcome sin. It appears that the church is somewhat split on this definition between an enabling power and unmerited favor.

If you do any research on what grace is in evangelical circles you will hear both definitions and at one point I was on the unmerited favor side UNTIL I realized what true biblical repentance is.

Not speaking of anyone here as I do not know your beliefs on this, but I have found that people who see grace as unmerited favor tend to use grace as a license to continue in sinful behavior.

I have seen it, discussed it, and had people excuse their sinful behavior because they said we are under grace and not law.

For me, when I was filled with the Holy Spirit after 9 years of struggling with sin in my own life, I was finally empowered to overcome sin in my own life. Don't get me wrong, I like Paul have to die daily and have not arrived, I know I will not fully be like Him until I see Him face to face.

When I was baptized in the Spirit however, this was an area that the Holy Spirit instructed me in my own life and allowed me to see where much of the church is on this issue.

I could see men preaching easy believism (is that a word?)They would preach a gospel that tells people to just believe in God but Repentance was missing from this Gospel.

1 John speaks of Gods commandments in the OP that was raised. Chapter 3 deals with people who continue, abide, and practice sin on an ongoing basis as someone who has never seen or known God, they are simply not His.

This is the problem as far as I have witnessed in much of Christendom. This idea that grace covers sin. As I said in the OP Paul says shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?

For Paul also when he was being tormented by a messenger of satan who was sent to buffet him he lists in chapter 11 of 2 Corinthians what that buffeting included, that Gods grace or enabling power was sufficient to endure the affliction, persecution, etc..

Many times we can talk past one another on a subject like this, but again for me, the danger and misunderstanding of what grace actually is, is a major difference between heaven and hell and it is a very serious subject.

I know I cannot keep the law in order to be saved, but by Gods grace, I can keep the law because I am saved. By the law, I speak of the 10 commandments. Many are of a different opinion on this I am well aware. BTW, I do sin, not in an abiding, continuing, or usual practice way. But there are times when the adversary snares me, but when I do sin, I feel terrible, lose sleep, and I am grieved to the uttermost, UNTIL, I get right with God, repent and confess the sin.

As far as unmerited favor is concerned, that is my understanding as the definition of mercy.

I still do not believe that grace is a "power". When the Bible talks about grace enabling us I believe it is another way of saying that God or the HS is enabling us, because He is gracious.

For example it is said that if a person is following The Lord and he is going to be martyred for his faith that God will give him the grace to endure it.

But is that not just another way of saying that God will strengthen him in the time of trial? Grace isn't a "substance" like gatorade that God puts into us. I believe it is just a manner of speaking about how God favors His children.

This may be what heydave is saying but I am not sure. It may be a matter of semantics.

I agree bear!

Hi TMK,

I agree pretty much with what you wrote. I did not mean that 'grace' in itself is a power, but that it is the enabling power of God in giving us what we need and in particular this would be the Holy Spirit. I think the article Yuhan posted was quite good. What I was highlighting was the often wrong definition of grace to mean God just forgives us and saves us no matter what.

When the bible talks about grace it always seems to me to be talking about something that is given by God to us freely to live an overcoming life, so salvation is grace, receiving the Spirit is grace, ability to endure trials is grace, etc, etc.

If I was pushed to give one scripture that describes 'grace' in terms of it being the power of God for our needs it would be 2 Cor 12:9.....

"And He said to me, "My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me."

Here God says to Paul that His grace is His strength to Paul in his weakness, which Paul then tells us is the power of Christ on him.

I think grace and mercy get confused and used interchangeably in a wrong way. It has been said that mercy is not getting what we deserve and grace is getting what we don't deserve. I think there is truth in that, but even with this you have to consider there is more to grace than just that.

Consider James 4:6

"But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

God give grace to the humble and not the proud. So grace cannot be something given arbitrarily.

Heydave wrote:

"Consider James 4:6

"But He gives more grace. Therefore He says:
God resists the proud,
But gives grace to the humble.”

God give grace to the humble and not the proud. So grace cannot be something given arbitrarily."

What's the difference between a proud heart and and humble heart?

Brother Blaine writes...

"I think a proud heart is full of me. A humble heart is full of Jesus."

What does Scripture say the difference is?

Scripture seems to assume an understanding of what a proud heart is. Doesn't seen to be a deep concept.

Tuc, I was just wondering if when Paul said i have been crucified with Christ, was he just referring to himself ? Maybe it says it somewhere else in the new testament, I dont have a good memory at the moment so can't bring up any verses in my head.

Dave.