New Covenant

I would like to get some thoughts concerning the New Covenant. What are the terms of the New Covenant?
It is certainly not laid out in the New Testament like the Old Covenant is laid out in the Old Testament. Actually, my understanding is that "testament" is a latin word for "covenant".
Is the New Covenant conditional as was the Old Covenant? Or is it unconditional, more like the Noahic or Davidic covenants? If it is conditional then what might the conditions or terms be? If it is unconditional then would that amount to universalism where salvation is given to all? My immediate thoughts go to a conditional covenant like the Old Covenant. But the terms seem to be vague. Any thoughts?

Thank you both for your responses to my query. I will check out the above references to see if they answer my questions. It may be old hat for some but this particular study is relatively new to me. Last year, while reading through the Bible I decided to record all of the references to "covenant." I chose that word randomly + chose another purposely, "if" (conditional statements). I did not realize the significance of the 2 words together, "covenant" + "if" until having finished reading through the Bible + perusing all of the references gathered. It seemed a significant discovery to better understand our relationship to our heavenly Father amongst other things.

I listened to Alan Martin's sermon. And I say Amen. He spoke with clarity concerning the means by which we enter the New Covenant. It is by His Spirit that we recognize His covenant with us.

Another point I found encouraging is that Pastor Martin used the OT to illustrate the New Covenant. More than 2/3 of the sermon was spent in Ezekiel and Joshua.

And finally Pastor Martin asks..."Do you believe that Christ was raised from the dead" repeatedly...and Martin was not speaking of remembering a bible verse, he was speaking to the point of do you know Christ? If he was not resurrected then no one would know Christ. So when one comes to know Christ one will know with certainty that Christ was resurrected...

Good teaching....

I have listened to the sermon given by Zac Poonen, with some effort, I hope to cover various parts of his teaching. I will cover a little bit here and a little bit there. I will try to present his thoughts as accurately as possible without having to transcribe his entire sermon.

Pastor Poonen begins by comparing the Old Covenant with the New Covenant. He states that because the heart could not be changed by the Law of Moses, Israel's hearts remainded hard. Thus the men of the OT had testimonies which reflected this unchanged heart. Poonen then goes on to teach that the New Covenant differs in that God promises to change the once hard heart into a soft heart. And that this is essense of the New Covenant.

There is some confusion in the way Poonen teaches these precepts. We know first, that the purpose of the Law given to Moses, was to confine all under sin. Poonen does not acknowledge this precept given to us in Scripture.

Secondly, Poonen teaches that all who lived before the day of Pentecost did not have a heart which sought God continuously. Poonen states that all of Israel failed to live a consistent life of obeying and seeking God.

My observation of Poonen's teaching is this...he does not understand or is not familiar with the OT. Throughout the OT there are testimonies of most who reject God, but there is on the other hand, continual testimony given of a "remanent" that does not have a hardened heart.

Based on Poonen's teaching, how would he explain away the testimony of a man who wrote Psalm 119?

Consider this...read Psalm 119 and contemplate for yourself. Listen to this sermon, be a Berean, How does Poonen's teaching align or misinterpret the Scritpures.

The next point...Poonen states that the heart of all the OT men are hard and then he begins to give examples one by one. The above transcription is about Elijah.

I have transcribed a section of Poonen teaching at the 5 minute mark...Poonen says:

"What I want to say is that is the experience of an old covenant person. It is the experience of a man whose heart is hard. It is the same with all these men of God. You find Elijah up on the mountain top, fighting against 850 false prophets. Bringing fire down from heaven. And the next chapter you read him running away by the threat of a woman, depressed, going to the mountain, and saying to the Lord, "Take away my life, I’ve had enough.” And then he is encouraged and goes back into the ministry again."

Look closely to what he says...Elijah's heart is hard and therefore he runs from the threat of a woman...

First, Scripture states that one who has a hard heart does not hear God. One who has a hard heart does not obey God. One who has a hard heart does not repent for his actions. Does the testimony of Elijah support the notion that Elijah has a hard heart? I think it is very clear that the truth is just the opposite.

Secondly is Poonen's depiction of Elijah's "running away by the threat of a woman" an accurate account of the Scriptures? Imagine a person who might be listening to this teaching, and not knowing the full account, how would this individual view Elijah's reaction to the threat he encountered from Jezabel. Why does Poonen teach this way?

I recommend you read The Better Covenant by Ron Bailey. You will go a long ways before you find clearer teaching on the New Covenant than this. You can find it on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=The%20Better%20covenant%20ron%20bailey

Hello everyone hope you all are having a wonderful night.

Rookie, I don't know that much about Pastor Poonen, but I do know a little about what the Bible says. I wonder what his response would be about Enoch. I don't say this out of arrogance or with malicious intent but rather to see how he could read the Bible and think that.

Enoch was perfect, His testimony was that he pleased God! By the grace of God I pray that I might have the same. Was his heart hard? Would God translate a hard hearted man so that he shouldn't even taste death?

Deuteronomy 6:5 And thou shall love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might.

Love everyone, and God bless

Thank you ADisciple for that recommendation. I followed your link + then found a link to Ron Bailey's blog where it is possible to post a thought or question. Naturally I will do so. Many thanks, eh? fellow Canadian

You're welcome, trxx. Yes, UK Bible teacher Ron Bailey has a blog, and also a website called Biblebase. http://biblebase.com/

There's also a forum there but it hasn't been functioning very well and is in the throes of some changes at the moment.

http://ncw.biblebase.com/modules/newbb/

And I do encourage you to get that book! You won't be disappointed!

...You're a Canadian, too, eh? Whereabouts are you?

Hi Rookie,

In Psalm 119:35-36 we read:

Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.

Here we have the Psalmist delighting in the law after the inward man (if I may turn a phrase), but asking God to show him how to perform what is written. In my view this was Paul's testimony prior to being Born Again. He goes on to say, " Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness. " By inference, his heart was not rightly inclined. This is the pattern of the Old Covenant. The saints thereof were a remnant people; but that must not be confused with what is available under the New Covenant. In fact, as great a man as John the Baptist was, he that is least in the Kingdom of Heaven would be greater than he. How can this be? John the Baptist preached a kingdom that he, himself, was not yet in. That is the plain reading of the text. It was at hand (Matthew 3:2), but it was not yet.

The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it. (Luke 16:16)

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (John 3:3)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5)

Based upon what your conception of Zac Poonen's teaching, I find what he is saying to be wholly true. John the Baptist announced the arrival of the Kingdom. This signaled the time of preparation for the coming of Messiah who would eventually lead to the possibility of a radical change in the nature of fallen men and women. The Old Testament is loaded with pictures of what God would do in the New Covenant. This includes a new heart and a new spirit.

Perhaps most importantly, the New Covenant creates a new race of men who are Born Again in Christ. We are in Adam by first birth and suffer all that his sin caused in the fall. You are aware of the teaching of original sin, so I will not expound. When Jesus told Nicodemas in John 3:3 that "you must be Born Again (born from above)" He was offering a possibility never before known to man. We were born by first birth in Adam; we are born again by New Birth into Jesus Christ, the last Adam.

In the same way that being in Adam effected mankind for evil; being born again into Jesus Christ affects us to the nature of the last Adam. As natural as it was to sin in Adam, it is natural to do righteousness for those in Christ. This was never available prior to Christ's death. Why? It was New. How could a person be "in Christ" whilst Christ walked the earth? How could they be baptized into His death when He had not died to Sin yet Himself? Our death to Sin, our being raised with Him, etc. are all aspects of the New Covenant. Nobody was in the New Covenant prior to Pentecost. It is impossible. It had not been made effectual or available.

Jesus is the one who spoke of the hardness of hearts. Zac Poonen is only taking up His claims. But this is only a portion of the story. They were of their father the Devil and the lusts of their father they did do. This was the problem with man. It is the diagnosis. (1 John 3:8-3:10) The Old Covenant could do nothing more than impose upon the people an institutional type law, with a view to correcting their behavior under the Adamic nature. It exposed their sinful nature, and quantified their sin. It made them very sin conscious. The Law was Spiritual, but men were carnal and sold under Sin. One cannot do with institutional law what can only be done by a change in a one's constitutional nature. It was a stop-gap measure until the Seed came to whom the promises were made (Galatians 3:19). These promises have been passed to us that we might be partakers of the Divine Nature. They were not given to those in the Old Covenant. This is the promise of the New Covenant.

I can send my dog to obedience school, and he may come home and act more civilized; but this is not a change of nature, it is the imposition of institutional law upon him. This is what the Old Covenant did for those under it. Nevertheless, God is bringing many sons unto glory. Prior to being born again, all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. Man has always fallen short of the glory of God, no matter how great he or she was. however, God is bringing many sons unto glory through the New Covenant. In Christ, the saying is fulfilled, "Let Us make man in our own image and likeness..." God wants children who partake of His Divine Nature. Not His omnipotence, omniscience, etc.; but His personality and character. This is what the New Covenant provides. It is New. It became available at Pentecost. It enabled mankind who had been born after the generations of Adam to be born again into the generation of Jesus Christ.

Brother Robert,

Let us look into Psalm 119 as you have posted about the short comming of the individual who recognized that his heart was not right concerning covetousness.

As you stated the written law's purpose, is to condemn all under sin. The written law teaches the individual to recognize what is not right in ones heart. And as you have stated, the writer of the Psalm also recognizes that he cannot remove from his being that which afflicts him.

So after this individual comes to this conclusion, what does he do?

In Psalm 119:35-36 we read:

Make me to go in the path of thy commandments; for therein do I delight. Incline my heart unto thy testimonies, and not to covetousness.

He asks the Lord to change what he cannot achieve according to the flesh. Now how does the Lord answer his prayer, his calling on the Lord?

Psa 119:72
The law of Your mouth is better to me
Than thousands of coins of gold and silver.

Psa 119:73
YOD
Your hands have made me and fashioned me;
Give me understanding, that I may learn Your commandments.

Psa 119:103
How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth!

Psa 119:104
Through Your precepts I get understanding;
Therefore I hate every false way.

Psa 119:145
QOPH
I cry out with my whole heart;
Hear me, O LORD!
I will keep Your statutes.

Paul's solution is the same as this man's above is it not?

Rom 8:1
There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

Rom 8:2
For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.

Both found the same Christ, the Word of God. And they both walked according to the direction of the Spirit of Christ and rejected the flesh.

Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

You see the writer of Psalm 119 also recognized this precept...

Psa 119:49
ZAYIN
Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope.

And because the Lord spoke to him this promise he could truthfully say...

Psa 119:45
And I will walk at liberty,
For I seek Your precepts.

You have brought many different points up...this is how I understand the first part of your post.

As for the writer of Psalm 119. He will walk at liberty because the Lord has enabled him to do so through His Spirit.

Do you see the Spirit's work in Psalm 119?

Hi Brother,

Do you see the Spirit's work in Psalm 119?

I do, in as much as God's word has capacity to effect change in our behavior. However, the greatest extent to which what was available in the Old Testament is found is realized in the life of John the Baptist. He was even filled with the Spirit from his mother's womb. He had all of these things. Nevertheless, he/she who is least in the Kingdom is greater than he. A person who has access to the New Covenant has access to better promises and therefore there are greater possibilities.

But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. (Hebrews 8:6)

Had John the Baptist lived after Pentecost he would have had access to these greater promises contained in the New Covenant. He did the best with what he had. He did not know the New Birth. He preached about it coming; but never lived to experience it. The trouble was never with God's law. It was Spiritual. Man is carnal and sold under Sin. God dealt with man's Sin problem through the Cross. He makes that reality effectural to those who by one Spirit have been baptized into Chrit's Body. No one was "in Christ" before Christ came to earth (the incarnation). No one could be baptized into His death before He Himself died to Sin. Therefore, no one could experience being dead indeed unto Sin and alive unto God prior to being baptized into Christ by the Spirit. That reality alone sets the experience of Old Testament saints in a different category that those who are in the New Covenant.

The writer of Psalm 119 was in the sphere of faith and hope.

"Remember the word to Your servant,
Upon which You have caused me to hope."

He would have been one of those who "died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off..." (Heb. 11:13).

"These all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise, God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect" (Heb. 11:40).

What is the "better thing" God has now provided?

The New Covenant. "...A better covenant" (Heb. 7:22). "A better covenant, which was established upon better promises" (Heb. 8:6).

(Edited to include those last two references.)

I need to clarify what I said last time: "The writer of Psalm 119 was in the sphere of faith and hope."

So are we under the New Covenant; we too are in a sphere of faith and hope.

With a significant difference. They could not yet be made perfect. We can.

"For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a BETTER HOPE did, by the which we draw nigh unto God" (Heb. 7:19). That "better hope" is the inauguration of the New Covenant. Those under the old covenant did not have this available to them. Yet. (See Heb. 12:23.)

"These all, having obtained a good report through faith, receive not the promise: God having provided (or, foreseen) some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect" (Heb. 11:39,40).