rookie
Sep 4, 2014
If you stop and think about what Phil Robertson has articulated, his stance is fundamentally no different than the terrorists perspective. They would have us all converted to Islam, but since we are viewed as "the great Satan," they feel they have no choice but to kill us.
Jeff,
While I always love to hear Gods word and Jesus Christ being preached to the greater masses, and I agree with most of what Phil said. He makes it clear that he is prepared to take up arms if necessary.
As a bible teacher yourself you know full well that there is no place for Christians taking up the sword. I am afraid that many professors in Christ through fear will be lead into taking up arms to defend themselves.
If ISIS happens to be the modern day Assyrian Army which is the rod of Gods anger against those who rebel against Him, the only remedy is repentance, not taking up arms and fighting against God.
With that said, I will say again that I appreciate God getting the airtime via men like Phil,
(Philippians 1:18) What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
However, many will see what Phil said and they will focus on the part he said about killing and not even hear anything else he said. Hence they will strain at a gnat and swallow the camel.
I look forward and welcome your thoughts as you seem to be one of the few who will engage my posts.
dfella, where is the passage you refer to in the bible of the Assyrian army being the rod of God's anger? Thanks in advance...
I agree, Jimmy
A thought from my blog today on this:
http://kingjimmyunauthorized.blogspot.com/2014/09/convert-them-or-kill-them-phil.html
For those of you who may not be aware, in Iraq and Syria there presently exists an armed uprising by an Islamic army/terrorist organization that refers to themselves as "The Islamic State in Iraq and Syria."
The number one goal of ISIS is to create an Islamic theocratic state, first starting in the Middle East, and eventually spreading across the globe. They hope to cause all men and women to live under the teachings and governance of Islamic law as interpreted through their religious leaders.
Ideally, they wish everybody would convert to Islam through their preaching. You may not know it, but Islam has their own missionaries. They actively try to convert people to Islam, much in the way we as Christians have missionaries and evangelists that go around the world sharing the gospel.
However, in regard to the form of Islam that ISIS practices, whoever resists their preaching must ultimately be executed, for such a person would have no place in a nation governed by Islamic law. Even Muslims who don't interpret Islam in the exact same way they do must ultimately convert and submit to their particular views, or face possible execution.
ISIS is terribly pragmatic in the implementation of their faith in the establishing of an Islamic government, and they are pretty straight forward in their approach:
Convert them, or kill them.
ISIS ultimately views America as an enemy in their struggle, and a result, we've landed in their crosshairs. They view us as a threat to their cause, their lives, and they believe we must be dealt with.
Many of our political leaders are presently scrambling for a solution to this problem. They realize that ISIS ultimately can't be negotiated with, because there is nothing to ultimately negotiate over. ISIS wants an Islamic state, not only in the Middle East, but ultimately across all of the world. They will be satisfied with nothing less.
While Washington, DC seeks for a present solution to this great problem, this topic has become a hot point of discussion in the media. Everybody is being asked to weigh in on where they stand, and what they see as a solution.
There is one brief interview recently conducted that sticks out in my mind, and I believe it to be indicative of the attitude that prevails amongst most Christians in America.
A few days ago, the controversial Duck Dynasty reality TV star and "patriarch" Phil Robertson appeared on Fox News, and was interviewed by commentator Sean Hannity. When Hannity asked Robertson about his thoughts on the ISIS crisis, Robertson briefly said the following:
"I'm not giving up on them, but I'm just saying, either convert them or kill them. One or the other."
I find Robertson's solution to the problem of ISIS to be rather revealing, and troubling at the same time. I fear too many follow his line of reasoning, and it goes along the following lines:
We know Jesus Christ has called us to fulfill the Great Commission, that is, to take the Gospel to all the world, and make disciples of all nations. We know all men are in need of our risen Lord and Savior. We know ISIS acts the way they do because like us, they are sinners in need of a Savior. We know they need to be born again, and apart from such, they will continue on in their present spiritual condition.
But in desiring to see all men saved, we recognize an immediate problem with groups like ISIS. They have no interests whatsoever in the Gospel message. Indeed, not only are they uninterested in hearing the Gospel, they are outwardly hostile to Christians, and are engaged in actively persecuting and murdering anybody who follows Christ. They simply will not tolerate the existence of Christians in their Islamic theocratic state. They don't believe in co-existing.
Being that there seems little hope in converting groups like ISIS, we quickly realize there only remains one practical means of stopping them from advancing, and that is to declare war against them, and kill as many of them as we possibly can. Our solution is ultimately this:
Convert them, or kill them.
But if you stop and think about what I just said, you will realize that our philosophy towards ISIS of converting them or killing them is the exact same philosophy that they are using in regard to us.
ISIS sees America as "the Great Satan" and believes we are beyond hope of being converted to Islam, and that we are actively trying to interfere with their mission of establishing an Islamic theocratic state. Likewise, we as Christians in America see ISIS as the embodiment of evil, inhuman, and demonic. And as such, we believe there are few practical steps we could take that could ever result in their conversion. They are beyond being saved it seems. Feeling hopeless and fearful in regard to stopping the jihad they are waging, we feel the only hope we have in stopping them is to declare war on them and kill them before they kill us.
Therefore, both of us agree the only solution to our problem is to kill the other group.
And while such may be the theology of Islam, carefully searching the Scriptures, I have a hard time believing such is also in keeping with the theology of Jesus, and the faith once and for all handed down to the saints.
The teachings of Jesus demand that we pick up our crosses instead of our swords, and follow Him. It demands that we love our enemies, even at the cost of our own lives. And if we literally give our lives over to death for the sake of Christ, we are to consider ourselves blessed. A resurrection awaits us. A kindgom has come and has been established that will know no end, and it conqurers and establishes justice and peace in the world through the weakness and foolishness of the cross, instead of the might of brute military force.
So Jimmy what you going to do when ISIS comes knocking on your door trying to "evangelize" you and your family to their point of view?
Just curious. I am not sure what I would do. Hope it doesn't happen.
I still see no where in scripture where Jesus says we must allow evil men to take over the world. Jesus was talking to a small group of disciples about possibly being persecuted by their faith by either Rome or unbelieving Jews. I think there is a distinction between that and what ISIS is doing.
I'd probably be scared out of my mind. I would probably put up a struggle. And I'll probably die in the process.
The Scriptures operate under the assumption that evil men do in fact rule this world. Such men were so evil that they crucified the Son of God. I'm not sure if it gets much more evil than that.
And no, there is no distinction between what Rome did and what ISIS is doing.
TMK - i mean no disrespect in anyway, but your question is hypothetical and can only generate hypothetical answers. What do you want Jimmy to say? That he will pull out two uzis and saw them all in two with a blaze of bullets?
Further, these hypothetical questions are becomming more real or closer to home, that much is true. But we cannot excuse away all that King Jesus said to us. They are as much real now was when he spoke them. In fact, they have become Words to Die on. Amen. What King Jesus asks of us is absolute resignation to Him. If He is sovereign, and He is, and Loves us, then nothing can seperate us from that.
Amen.
Rich,
The story is found in Isaiah 10 and the specific verse is 10:5.
Isaiah 10:5 KJV O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is Mine indignation.
Isaiah 10:5 ESV Ah, Assyria, the rod of my anger; the staff in their hands is My fury!
It is God that used the Assyrians to punish guilty Israel yet the Assyrians do not realize they are being used of God because they have their own plan and agenda for destruction just like ISIS, those before her, and those who are sure to come after.
What would I do if ISIS came knocking at my door to convert me. God willing, show them the love of Jesus and plead with them to be saved. Of course I probably would be killed. But then we should be dead to ourselves so that Christ may live in us.
Bearnaster
Quote: If you stop and think about what Phil Robertson has articulated, his stance is fundamentally no different than the terrorists perspective.
Let the battle of the civilisation's commence...
Naw what our governments will do is seek out the 'moderates' - listen to there cries and help them promote a 'caliphate' for political and economic growth. This be backed if they promise to sign a peace deal with Israel for a two state solution...
President and Prime-ministers will hold up the paper deals and say there will peace in our time.
dfella wrote:
"If ISIS happens to be the modern day Assyrian Army which is the rod of Gods anger against those who rebel against Him, the only remedy is repentance, not taking up arms and fighting against God."
Yes, if this is the case concerning the U.S. our efforts to resist what God means for judgement is futile. But in Scripture we find that God, concerning Israel in another time, the time of the Judges, uses war to cleans and test a generation...
Jdg 3:1
Now these are the nations which the LORD left, that He might test Israel by them, that is, all who had not known any of the wars in Canaan
Jdg 3:2
(this was only so that the generations of the children of Israel might be taught to know war, at least those who had not formerly known it),
With that said, God has made a covenant with Israel, yet we live in the times of the Gentiles. We know from the book of Daniel that the greatest empire was the Babylonian. And we know that the worst gentile empire is that of Rome.
I believe at one time 200 years ago, this nation of people were blessed by God and that many blessed God. Today, this nation has fallen back under the dominion of the Roman Empire. And I believe that there are still enough faithful Christians in this generation that would cause God to tarry with the final judgement of this land.
dfella wrote:
"As a bible teacher yourself you know full well that there is no place for Christians taking up the sword. I am afraid that many professors in Christ through fear will be lead into taking up arms to defend themselves."
I myself have come to this position for myself and family. I will not fight for this country, but I will fight to protect my family in the place I live. I will give up my life to protect my family. I and my son have trained at Frontsight in Nevada.
There are too many examples in Scripture where God requires man to take up arms. Abraham understood the times in which he lived. And God had already said to him that He would bless those who blessed Abram, and He would curse those who cursed Abram. Yet Abram trained and prepared his household for conflict. And we know that the High Priest Melchizedec confirmed that God gave him the victory over those who threatened Abram's household.
Unless God shows me beforehand this is my position.
In term of everything Phil Robertson said, I posted this video to testify about a man who demonstrates his use of the Scriptures to understand the times in which he lives.
Maybe more would come to that same way of living if times grew hard...only God knows.
As I laid in bed at 3:15 this morning, considering the verse in Judges...
Jdg 3:2
(this was only so that the generations of the children of Israel might be taught to know war, at least those who had not formerly known it),
If one continues, Israel began to marry with other nations that surrounded them. And God through the use of war cleansed Israel from the influence of the surrounding nations culture.
Then I though of Psalm 2
Psa 2:8
Ask of Me, and I will give You
The nations for Your inheritance,
And the ends of the earth for Your possession.
Psa 2:12
Kiss the Son,fn lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.
Then I considered Genesis...
Gen 11:7
"Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.”
Gen 11:8
So the LORD scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.
Gen 11:9
Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the LORD confused the language of all the earth; and from there the LORD scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.
And then I considered Zechariah 14...
Zec 14:16
And it shall come to pass that everyone who is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Tabernacles.
Zec 14:17
And it shall be that whichever of the families of the earth do not come up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, on them there will be no rain.
From the beginning of time to the 1000 year reign of Christ there will be "nations".
And as for the individual...
Paul states in Acts, that God determines the generation and the place in which each individual finds himself in.
I have never thought of this before,,,but how then should we view our existence within the nation that we have been placed?
I been clocking IS for over a year now.
what struck me was, their proficiency in executing MODERN maneuver warfare, which means they were trained by a modern nation state.
also, their total disregard for the Geneva convention in the way they handle prisoners, ie. dispassionate execution, underlines modern techniques of total psychological indoctrination, to a war fighting cause, similar to the way, the Imperial Japanese Army did when they conquered Nanking, in the infamous "rape of Nanking", ie prisoners shot, women raped on a wholesale basis.
I said all that to say this, their number two man is a Chechen, whos' "nom de guerre" is Omar al-Shishani ( birth name-Tarkhan Batirashvili )
here's the wiki link on this man:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_al-Shishani
right after high school in Georgia, he joined the Georgian army...he's an ethnic Chechen in Georgia, what the wiki link DOES NOT tell you, is that he was trained by US Special Forces, and probably other US intel entities.
that's all I have to say, except that in these dark days, the lies of the world are SO THICK, one can hardly see the haze...don't be fooled, white is black, black is white, but Jesus is Messiah.......and don't bother arguing with me on this, you'd have better luck screaming into a Styrofoam cup ....but I still send my love IN Jesus, n.
Hi Neil --
I certainly have no reason to doubt what you are saying but what are you trying to tell us-- that the US govt is behind and supporting ISIS? Or simply that some members of ISIS were trained by the US military? There is a distinction, at least to me.
I had posted this article in News and Current Events...
To go along with Brother Neil's post, the leader of Isis was trained by the Mosad of Israel for over a year.
with respect, don't put words in my mouth. I wrote what I wrote, and no more.
brother Jeff, though a lot of alt-media accuses m*ss*d of everything, including incubating alien babies, I seriously doubt they would even allow some of these characters into Israel....Arik didn't build the security wall for nothing.
I would look to the GID of Jordan as the likely "contractor", they have skills comparable to the Israeli's.
of all the fiction done on this hellishness, the one film that captures the reality of the haze in the middle east is a film, "Body of Lies" (2008)...it came out during the financial crisis of 08, and was ignored. its available for rental on amazon. I highly recommend it as a glimpse into the all the duplicity in the shadow world.......God love you both, that's all I want to say.
postscript to Jeff:, I read the article, and first, global research has their own agenda, (as does everyone) but usually when a writer refers to Israel as the "Zionist entity", they are usually hostile to Israel, second, its the wrong guy...they're writing about "Baghdadi" he's "number 1", if he's still alive, I was writing about number 2 man, he has a red beard.....and again I say, stuff is pinned on Israel, when its really a GID of Jordan op, the Jordanians NEVER like to see their name mentioned, their services are very good, but militarily they lack Israel's lethality....its a bad neighborhood, brother.
I understand you wrote what you wrote but I must be pretty dense because I have no idea what point you are trying to make. It might be a great point; I just don't know what it is.
Brother Neil,
Yes it is "hellishness" all this turmoil and speculation. And you have a greater understanding of Israel than I. So I differ to you.
There is a fog that hides what is truly going on in the world.
The first thing Solomon warned his son about was the formation of conspiracies and that much blood is spilt by those who conspire against the poor and helpless in this world...
Pro 1:10
My son, if sinners entice you,
Do not consent.
Pro 1:11
If they say, "Come with us,
Let us lie in wait to shed blood;
Let us lurk secretly for the innocent without cause;
Pro 1:12
Let us swallow them alive like Sheol,fn
And whole, like those who go down to the Pit;
Pro 1:13
We shall find all kinds of precious possessions,
We shall fill our houses with spoil;
Pro 1:14
Cast in your lot among us,
Let us all have one purse”””
Pro 1:15
My son, do not walk in the way with them,
Keep your foot from their path;
Pro 1:16
For their feet run to evil,
And they make haste to shed blood.
One thing we can be sure of is that those who are part of these "conspiracies" will seek to hide what they are doing. These people will have the devil as their adviser. And his skill at deception is well practiced.
This discussion is locked.