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Ken Ham's comments about aliens

T
TMK Sep 4, 2014

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/22/ken-ham-aliens-go-to-hell_n_5608368.html

In essence Ham says that aliens probably don't exist and if they do, they are going to hell anyway. Nice.

If (or when) we discover intelligent alien life do we have a duty to evangelize them?

Would an intelligent alien have a soul?

How would a non-human be corrupted by Adams sin?

Please- dont respond that the Bible doesn't discuss aliens so they don't exist. I know the Bible does not discuss aliens. There are many things that exist that the Bible does not mention.

D
dolfan Sep 4, 2014

I personally do not believe they exist. I believe that Earth truly is unique, in spite of the odds scientists lay against it.

Let's allow for the possibility, though. Are they in God's image? If so, we are not told so. Do we know where they are? No. We are not told so. Can we get to them? No, because we do not even know if they are, what they are, who they are or where they are. Did Jesus die for their sins? No. He is expressly said to have taken away the "sins of the world". This one. We have no information that makes plausible the possibility that God the Son could re-incarnate into the likeness of sinful flesh to again be rejected and forsaken, etc. We have no information that there is a covenant people of aliens in some other world through whom the Son could, in any instance, be subjected to its laws and punished for violating them.

So, with all that....can or should we evangelize aliens? Sure. No, I am joking. Of course not.

I was in a church service about 25 or so years ago where a little lady asked this very thing. I loved the pastor's answer: "I'm not going there so, no, I am not going to evangelize them. You can if you want to."

sermonindex Sep 4, 2014

The Bible does not speak of Aliens but it does of Angels. There is a deception coming where Angels will come in a way that will decieve many. Some early church fathers believed this was what happened during the days of Noah and therefore the Lord had to destroy the earth because of this defilement.

There is no other name given that should be worshiped in "heavens and the earth" All creation will homage the Son of God.

sermonindex Sep 4, 2014

Once you get down a literal creation by Yaweh, you realize the Bible's infallible witness shows God as divine creator so worthy and beautiful that you can be sure, since Jesus died for sins, he would do the right thing EVEN IF there were aliens. Which I'm very sure there aren't. In the Beginning God created the HEAVENS (one part) and the EARTH (second part)
not "and many earths"

earth is the place of the physical-creation masterpiece, Adam.

for earth dwellers, its earth-centric. Heaven longs to look into the things that go on here, to find out when it will be restored to heaven-like status again. this IS the place of action. angels constantly go back and forth from earth to heaven and back serving God's missions, answering prayers, visiting people in death, setting people free, fighting devils, etc. earth is the focal point for what God is doing. people that make it into heaven, but didn't do much on earth, many times wish they could go back and do something more for God, since their work has ended after death

first created the heavens, then created the earth. and its only been ~6000 years since he created the earth. and i purport there are so many holes in cosmological, chemical and biological evolutions, that you can't place your faith in them any more confidently than in God's Word. and boy its a slippery slope doubting God's word.

an article if you are up for a quick read:
http://creation.com/did-god-create-life-on-other-planets

M
Man0fG0d Sep 4, 2014

Good afternoon everyone. I thank God for the opportunity to fellowship with my fellow believers in Christ. Dolfan, I loved the way you answered that, and the way you brought out every point. Nicely handled.

This is why the bible says in 2 Timothy 2:23 KJV
But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

This is an interesting subject, and we could discuss it all day and still have nothing accomplished.

The Bible does say in Hebrews 11:3 KJV
Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

So we see from the Scripture that God created worlds. However it says nothing of life on other planets. Whether there be not, is not our concern because God would have told us in His Word if it was important for us to know.

As for our evangelism, Jesus made it clear when He said in

Matthew 28:19-20 KJV
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: [20] Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

The world is filled with wicked men and women that need to hear the Gospel. The Country that I live in has leaders that need to hear the gospel. The town that I live in has sinners around every corner that need to saved.

What I am saying is that we have such a great duty and responsibility to the people around us, that we shouldn't be worried about things that are trivial. Bro Ken and us would be a lot better off if instead of worrying about things that are out of our power, we turned all our time and effort into fulfilling the commission that Christ gave us in the short amount of time here on earth that we do have.

Contemplating whether or not aliens will spend an eternity in hell, and whether or not they do exist, is not what we should focus on but rather the real people that live around and perhaps even in our own families that unless repent of their sins and believe in Christ will go to a real hell.

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I love you all. God bless.

sermonindex Sep 4, 2014

The Bible does say in Hebrews 11:3 KJV
Through faith we understand that the worlds(αἰών, ages) were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.

This word actually means "ages" ( 7 ages or 7000 years of time i believe its referring to) it also has the meaning of "world" but in the sense of "the [one] world containing all ages of time"

-------------------Liddel/Scott Lexicon

Aion: αἰών, ῶνος, ὁ, poët. ἡ: apocop. acc. αἰῶ (properly αἰϜών, aevum, v. αἰεί):””a period of existence:
1. ones lifetime, life, Hom. and Att. Poets.
2. an age, generation, Aesch.; ὁ μέλλων αἰών posterity, Dem.
3. a long space of time, an age, ἀπʼ αἰῶνος of old, for ages, Hes., N.T.; τὸν διʼ αἰῶνος χρόνον for ever, Aesch.; ἅπαντα τὸν αἰ. Lycurg.
4. a definite space of time, an era, epoch, age, period, ὁ αἰὼν οὗτος this present world, opp. to ὁ μέλλων, N.T.:””hence its usage in pl., εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας for ever, Ib.


Liddell, H. G. (1996). A lexicon: Abridged from Liddell and Scott’s Greek-English lexicon. Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

-----------------------End lexicon

blessings.

M
Man0fG0d Sep 4, 2014

NoahJD, thanks for the reply. Hope you are doing well. In love, and respect, I must tell you that the Lexicon is wrong. The word "worlds" means "worlds." God is perfect, and knows the difference between ages and worlds. When He wanted to use the word "ages" He did as in the verses below.

Ephesians 2:7 KJV
That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 3:21 KJV
Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Colossians 1:26 KJV
Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:

When we read the Bible, we need to take it like it says. If we substitute one word for another that gives other people the excuse to twist other Scripture to suit their way of thinking and lifestyle.

If worlds can be interpreted into something else than so can salvation, sanctification or any word in the Bible.

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

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Love you brother.

sermonindex Sep 4, 2014

ManOfGod: the bible is a translation from Greek and Hebrew and even translators are still trying to figure out certain difficult passages.


"by faith we understand the ages to have been prepared by a saying of God, in regard to the things seen not having come out of things appearing.” (Hebrews 11:3, YLT)

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3 πίστει νοοῦμεν κατηρτίσθαι τοὺς αἰῶνας ῥήματι θεοῦ, εἰς τὸ μὴ ἐκ φαινομένων τὸ βλεπόμενον γεγονέναι.


Harris, W. H., III. (2010). The Lexham Greek-English Interlinear New Testament: SBL Edition (Heb 11:3). Bellingham, WA: Lexham Press.

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Here is the definition of κατηρτίσθαι ("prepared")

καταρτίζω
katartizō, to set in place, organize, dispose of, restore, mend
→see also καταρτίζω


(c) ...Thus exartizō is stronger than katartizō, even though the two are sometimes synonymous. The first meaning of the latter verb is "put into order, arrange an object so that it can do its work”; thus the worlds were set in place, organized, and adorned by God’s utterance.7 Secondly, "put in order, dispose of,” like the vessels of wrath for perdition, i.e., ripe or completely ready for apōleia (Rom 9:22). Finally, "restore, mend” nets (Matt 4:21; Mark 1:19) or rebuild walls lying in ruins (2 Esdr 4:12”“13); that which is lacking is supplied, for example deficiencies of faith (1 Thess 3:10), a Christian who is at fault is straightened out, corrected (Gal 6:1). If katartizesthe in 2 Cor 13:11 is taken as an imperative passive, the verse will mean "let yourself be led to a spiritual condition in which nothing is lacking” or "accept correction.” If it is taken as a middle, "work at your restoration, cooperate in your remaking.…” The root nuance of artios””ordering, adapting, adjusting””is preserved in 1 Cor 1:10, where the Corinthians, divided among themselves, are exhorted to agree, to be in harmony, as persons well fitted together in the same intelligence and the same way of feeling (Ä“te de katÄ“rtismenoi).
Thus the verb became a technical term in early parenesis. The Lord had said that "every disciple who is well formed (katÄ“rtismenos) will be like his master” (Luke 6:40). Heb 13:21 asks "May the God of peace make you fit for every good work to do his will” and 1 Pet 5:10 assures, "The God of all grace … will himself equip you,” will arrange everything for the best (cf. Ps 58:9; 80:16). The semantic evolution is perfectly homogeneous.


Spicq, C., & Ernest, J. D. (1994). Theological lexicon of the New Testament. Peabody, MA: Hendrickson Publishers.

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I doubt you want to read all that. But I think it has something to do with "ordering the ages". ordaining. predestining. etc.

The reason being that there is another word in greek meaning "world" which is not used in Heb 11:3, the word "kosmos", where we get the word in English, "cosmos" from.

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3180 κόσμος (kosmos), ου (ou), ὁ (ho): n.masc.; ≡ Str 2889; TDNT 3.868””1. LN 1.1 universe, as an ordered structure (Ac 17:24); 2. LN 1.39 earth, the surface of the earth, where mankind dwells (Mt 4:8; Mk 16:15 v.r.); 3. LN 41.38 world system, godless world standards (Gal 6:14); 4. LN 9.23 people, those estranged from God (1Co 6:2); 5. LN 79.12 adorning (1Pe 3:3), for another interp, see next; 6. LN 6.188 adornment, an object which adorns (1Pe 3:3); for another interp, see prior; 7. LN 59.55 tremendous amount, figurative extension (Jas 3:6); 8. LN 12.44 αἰὼν τοῦ κόσμου τούτου (aiōn tou kosmou toutou), supernatural power (Eph 2:2)

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains: Greek (New Testament). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

-------------------

Notice he "ordered the ages" in Hebrews 11:3, but in Acts 17:24 he "made/created" the world(kosmos).

""The God who made(poieomai) the world(kosmos) and all things in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands;” (Acts 17:24, NASB95)

The different greek verb used "poieomai" (to make, to do) is the same word used in Genesis 1:1 of the Septuagint (Greek OT).

"In the beginning God created(poieomai) the heavens and the earth.” (Genesis 1:1, NASB95)


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how fun it is to study God's word. =)

edit: i don't want to offend, be rebellious, or stubborn, but I'm just sharing information open to everyone.

God bless,

Noah

love you to bro

T
TMK Sep 4, 2014

Do you all believe in other dimensions, or the multiverse as science today calls it?

sermonindex Sep 5, 2014

A creationist cosmologist, Dr. John Hartnett, came up with a special creation theory based on Einstein's theory of general relativity and an expansion of General Relativity by Israeli Dr. Moshe Carmelli which included a 5th dimension called "space-time expanision". The rate at which space itself is "stretched out". It fits well with the astrophysical data as far as I know. That theory fits in "special creation" with a biblical 6 day creation and uses the reliable General Relativity Theory, but with some new physics from Carmelli and his own. Some would say it fits much better than the plethora of unknowns that come with "the Big Bang Theory".

So do I believe in extra dimensions. Well, a dimension is usually some trick a physicist uses to make his theory/data to work. But Hartnett works with a 5th dimension of space-time expansion based on the biblical verse

Thus says God, the LORD, who created the heavens and stretched them out, who spread out the earth and what comes from it, who gives breath to the people on it and spirit to those who walk in it:
(Isa 42:5)

Hartnett uses God's word to figure out Creation. The popular secular theorists don't. I really don't know about all those extra dimensions. but I think its because they start from the wrong foundation, naturalism. God says he's no liar. But these men disregard his word and His word says that:

The fool says in his heart, "There is no God." They are corrupt, they do abominable deeds, there is none who does good.
(Psalms 14:1)

multiverse. not personally no.

S
SteveHale Sep 5, 2014

Greg is right in what he says. There is a dark deception coming that will deceive the very elect. The fact is deceiving spirits can come in any form that they wish. One of which is in the form of aliens that "want to help us".

M
Man0fG0d Sep 5, 2014

Thanks for the reply bro Noah. I understand that the Bible was translated from Greek and Hebrew. So when we read the Bible we are reading what it says in Greek and Hebrew. It's been translated already so what sense does it make to say "this word means this in Hebrew." When we can clearly read the Bible see what it says ourselves?

How did we get the word of God?

2 Peter 1:20-21 KJV
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. [21] For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

So what we read is only what spoken by the Holy men of old as the Holy Ghost moved upon them. It says its of no private interpretation that means what we read is perfect, and that the Word of God is perfect and exactly as God intended it to be.

Do you believe that the Word of God is perfect, and infallible?

The Bible says man shall not live by bread alone but by every Word of God.

When Jesus and apostles preached they did not quote dictionaries, or history books, they always said "it is written."

The Bible says study to shew thyself approved unto God. Jesus said search the Scriptures. That means the only thing God approves of is His Word. If we had to know History, or Jewish customs in order to make it Heaven, none of us would go. But we don't need these things to understand the Bible. The Bible means what it says and says what it means. To try and substitute words in the Bible and say it wasn't translated right shows a lack of faith in the Author.

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Sorry it took me so long to reply, I got caught up in business. Thanks again.

sermonindex Sep 5, 2014

I do believe the Bible is inspired, infallible, and inerrant. But most authorities will qualify that with "as originally written in the original languages"

that is because greek and hebrew don't have a one-to-one, word-for-word, translation into English, or into any language its translated into.

So in one sense no, I do not believe its "perfect" in any one single English translation.

It IS perfect as originally written though. And we have almost perfect copies in the original languages, though with some differences between manuscripts. But even reading the original languages Christians have still had disputes, calvinism/arminianism, eschatology, etc. But the Holy Spirit has no dispute. Mature Christians don't argue over things like that. I don't see Brother Yun arguing, just saving souls.

H
havok20x Sep 5, 2014

Greg,

I don't believe in aliens , but I have seen a couple unexplainable things in my life, and many people I know have seen some things like that. As is typical with these things they leave us confused and/or fearful - which is exactly what the enemy would want, because a belief in aliens or other unbiblical supernatural superstitions taken to there furthest extent breeds a rejection of truth at the worst or a clouding of it at the least. And I believe a few, not all, of certain accounts like those regarding UFOs or ghosts are deception on the part of the enemy. I didn't know that there were other people who thought like that...lol.

T
TMK Sep 5, 2014

If UFOs represent demonic activity, why UFOs? I mean why are they posing as big-headed grey aliens in spaceships?

I used to feel pretty strongly that this activity was meant to pave the way for an explanation when the rapture occurred- i.e aliens did it- not God. My eschatology has changed so I don't think that anymore.

If aliens (or something like it) DO exist, I don't necessarily believe they are extraterrestrial in origin, but not necessarily demonic either. But they certainly could be. Just not sure why a demon would use a flying saucer.

I really think, though, that the odds that there is at least some simple life form elsewhere in the universe is exceedingly high- not because of spontaneous generation or evolution but because God placed it there.

I think we have to allow for some mystery in creation. Dark matter and dark energy is still very much a mystery but it makes up the great majority of the universe. But the bible is silent about this. There is good science that holds there are alternative universes. Then we have wormholes and black holes other phenomenon. What if ghosts aren't departed spirits but rather an anomalous "replay" of past events? There are many strange things in the world that have happened and continue to happen. We still have a lot to learn, and fitting these things into a Biblical world view may be difficult but should be attempted. We can't blame every strange thing that happens on demons.

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