To be human is to be sinful?

by Harold J. Brokke
Listen, Protestant leaders, Many of you have fed the largest of the flocks of God.
The flocks have eaten an error and count it as a good provision.

What is that error?

The doctrine of the Gnostics,
The doctrine of the Manichaeans,
The doctrine that touched so great a one as Augustine.
What is that doctrine?

IT IS THIS;

That a man cannot be free from his sin in his humanity-
That to be human is to be sinful.
You limit God with this teaching.
And men continue to walk in the weakness of their flesh instead of the strength of the Holy Spirit.
The "least" of God's children do not practice sin.
All of the children of God should go on and become perfect in the love of Jesus.

The proof of the Church is not in its buildings, it is not in its rituals, nor is it in its eloquence it is not in its super organization, nor in the supernatural-
Satan can mimic all these.
The POWER of the church of Jesus is in its purity and holiness, in the love that fulfills the law.

Listen, evangelical, don't fear to be disciples. don't fear the cross or the Holy Spirit, he comes to make you new-
Make your heart new, give you a new walk, give you a new mind, the mind of Christ. Give you a new tongue, make you a new man in Christ.

Christ bore the curse to Calvary.
The fullness of the Fall.
O worthless death, if Jesus bore
A little, but not all!

If there are citadels of sin
Where Christ set not His claim,
Let angels wear confusion
And God be robed in shame!

If with the heart renewed by Christ
Perversity must dwell,
Then what a caustic compromise
Has heaven made with hell!

NO! God erected Calvary.
All love in His design.
It gladdens His eternal heart
Because it purges mine!

Cast off the dark delusion,
The bondage of the lie
That says to those involved in sin,
" Thou shalt not surely die."

Put on, O soul, the Truth of God;
Sin owns no part in thee.
Thy freedom from the "all" of sin
Is all in Calvary! Galatians 3:13-14

In 1952 Harold J Brokke was ordained and became Associate Pastor of Bethany Missionary Church located in Bloomington, MN and later its Senior Pastor. .He was Dean and on the faculty of Bethany College. b. 1923- d.2009

Eileen

We have discussed this extensively, and surprise surprise, many agree that it is within reach to walk without constant sin. Not many of us are ready to say sin has been completely conquered in our lives, but the idea that men have a sin problem instead of a sin nature is not foreign here.

From Genesis 4:7 where God tells Cain he needs to master the sin that seeks to destroy him, to Deut. 30:11 where the children of Israel are advised that the law they are commanded to obey is not too hard for them, and in Ezekiel 18 where they are told that every man is individually responsible for his sin without respect to his father's sin or righteousness, quite a case can be made against the doctrine you reference as the problem.

Bring it!!

no dont bring it on believe it or not this is one of those debats that allways go sour

QUOTE:
______________________________________________________________

That to be human is to be sinful.
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You lost me right there. Nothing else makes sense. This statement generates more unnecessary question then if one just studies the WORD.

Too many times philosophy and theology muddle up ones ability to understanding the WORD.

Keep it simple - just like Jesus did. You can not go wrong if you do.

My perception was that the post was in confrontation of the notion that to be human was to be sinful.

Though I agree with Sandra, more clarity would be gained with more simplicity.

yep you lost me ....theres none who does righeousness no not one ,theres none who seeks god ,all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god

I am straining with my memory, but there is something rattling in a dusty closet about this man from 50 years or so ago.

Raised in Minnesota near Bethany Fellowship, I think I recall that Harold was part of the founding of that fellowship,which was akin to a commune at the time. There was a group of mostly Lutheran families who decided to pool resources, live together, and through various business enterprises create a community that could afford to send out missionaries. Bethany morphed into what is now a major Christian publishing house and has move well beyond the simple dream of a few Lutheran families.

Paris Reidhead's "Ten Shekels" sermon was preached at a conference chapel service there. But as I recall, Harold broke from traditional Lutheran sinful nature theology which did set well with some of his fellow clergy associates. He became persona non grata, but would not back down from his convictions. I see that he lived until 2009, no longer in the conversation.

Eileen, if I have missed something here let us know. It may be that Bethany College is not associated with Bethany Fellowship- but I believe it is, or was.

Church history is filled with a million interesting people and stories...

Pastor Brokke [ as in brocc key] think broccoli~ Pastor Brokke joined the newly organized Bethany fellowship Missionary Training center...6820 Auto club Rd. in 1948.

He had received his degree in Art and English from St. Olaf College in 1947 and was offered an Assistant Professorship by Concordia College but chose to join the staff of Bethany.

He was never ordained in the Lutheran faith.

The Bethany Fellowship is a company of God's people in search for the answer to the question, " How can I give myself and all that I have wholly to God?" Having seen a vision of Christ and the world for whom He died yet but little more than half evangelized, and realizing the emergency of the hour, they sold their possessions, pooled their resources, purchased a headquarters, and united to form a fellowship for deeper-life teaching and the recruiting and training of missionary candidates.

Ordained in 1952 he became an associate pastor of Bethany Missionary Church.

He was on the faculty of Bethany College of Missions from 1948- 1994 and taught Synoptic Gospels, Romans, Practical Theology, Old Testament 1 , Biblical Prayer, Revelation and Daniel. He was Dean of Men, Academic Dean and Dean of College. After 48 years of teaching, he was honored with the title, " Dean Emeritus" of Bethany college of Missions.

He held many seminars at Bethany and at churches in the United States and Canada, where he taught the books of Romans, Daniel ,Ezekiel, Revelation, also Seven Feasts of Israel and Eight Realms of the Universe. He taught at Youth With A Mission [YWAM] centers in Hawaii, Norway, Germany, Switzerland and Austria.

He was one of the Pastors of Bethany Missionary Church from 1952-1998 and became Senior Pastor.
On April 5, 1998, at the 55th anniversary of the church, he was given the honor of " Pastor Emeritus."

He resigned as President of the Fellowship on his 71st birthday on April 8, 1994 to conform to the By-laws.

Rev. Brokke's words were, " I have never regretted my life-time at Bethany Fellowship. The secret of our membership is total surrender to, and expectation from Christ alone!"

Pastor Brokke wrote the forward to R.A Torrey's book Baptism by The Holy Spirit.

Leonard Ravenhill wrote the forward to his book Saved By His Life.{ Romans}

In conclusion in this forward Rev. Ravenhill says~ " Because he kneels much before his God, he stands high in the opinion of students and teachers alike here at Bethany.

The more I know this man of God, the more I want to know him.

I think of Mr. Brokke -whom I am honored to call my friend and whose counsel I have often sought- as a man standing with his feet on the muddy flats of this earth but spiritually tall enough to see over the clouds of time into the wonders and fastness of eternity. Truly he lives in heavenly places."
web search Harold Brokke Pastor if you are interested. I will follow in another message on Reidhead and other information things if I may. Sincerely Eileen

Thank you Eileen, great history, and puts your OP in a good perspective! Looking forward to more!

There is no question to the statement,"To be human is to be sinful" therefore I have removed the question mark and replaced it with 3 exclamation points. The number 3 having significance.

This author Harold J. Brokke says,

"The flocks have eaten an error and count it as a good provision.

What is that error?

...What is that doctrine?

IT IS THIS;

That a man cannot be free from his sin in his humanity-
That to be human is to be sinful..."

I care not who endorses this man! What he says above is contrary to what God says.

God says through Paul His apostle,

But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss because of Christ. But, no, rather I also count all things to be loss because of the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whose sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them to be trash, that I might gain Christ and be found in Him; not having my own righteousness of Law, but through the faith of Christ, having the righteousness of God on faith, to know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, having been conformed to His death, if somehow I may attain to a resurrection out of the dead. Not that I already received or already have been perfected, but I press on, if I also may lay hold, inasmuch as I also was laid hold of by Christ Jesus. Brothers, I do not count myself to have laid hold, but one thing I do, forgetting the things behind, and stretching forward to those things before, I press on after a mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Then as many as are perfect, let us be of this mind; and if you think anything differently, God will also reveal this to you. Yet as to where we have arrived, walk by the same rule, being of the same mind. Philippians 3:7-16

I am in agreement with what God has revealed by His Spirit in His Word.

Avoid any christian who claims to have reached sinless perfection in this life. Pride goes before the fall. Such persons are destined to become pharisees or worse.

The cry of every christian is freedom from any and all sin. Yet the experience of every christian is that they fall short in word or deed,or attitude or emotion. It may be to a lesser or greater degree,but none can say I no longer commit any sin in this present life.

Say with all those who live godly in Christ Jesus when they encounter the manifest presence of God,

"Woe is me!"

Which one are you?

"Two men went up into the temple to pray..."

One said,"God, I thank You that I am not as the rest of men..."

And the other said,

"...God, be merciful to me, the sinner!"

See Luke 8:10-13

Yes...by His grace and through faith I'm an adopted son!

Yet,I cannot say "...I always do the things pleasing to Him." See John 8:29

Only Jesus lived this life without sin.

Now the sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law. But thanks be to God, that giveth us the victory, through our Lord Jesus the Messiah. 1 Cor. 15:56,57

Savannah,

I think the point, while somewhat veiled, is that many preachers of the gospel in Harold's view, teach that sin is some kind of natural substance in a human being.

My Lutheran friends knew the catechism well, and the statement they recited at every service: "we have sinned every day in thought, word, and deed." The idea of living in a sin-free loving relationship with God was out of the question- but apparently Harold questioned it.

Having grown up in Minnesota, I remember the Lutheran culture that Harold dealt with, and how in the early '60's a revival swept through so many of those old line churches. There was havoc and church splits galore as so many received the Baptism of the Holy Spirit- while others opposed it
vehemently.

I am not familiar with the way Harold actually taught, but I believe he knew that there was a level of holy living God expected from His people that was hindered by the teaching that daily sin was acceptable. There is nothing in his approach that I can see where he was teaching the very rigid doctrine of sinless perfection.

Maybe Eileen can shed more light, but I expect Harold was very familiar with people like Paris Reidhead, Len Ravenhill, Dick Easterday, Morris Vaagness, and Alan Langstaff who were actively preaching in the area at the same time.

Generally speaking, "sinless perfection" is used to mean a state in which the Christian cannot sin, a state where he is not only cleaned from all sin but freed from temptation to sin, and therefore a state where the atonement is no longer needed. Such ideas are certainly not Scriptural, nor promised in the Word, nor necessary for living a victorious life.

Is there not a perfection which is Scriptural? what has God promised Christians? Does God expect us to be perfect as Adam before the Fall? Perfect as the angels? Certainly not perfect as GOD!!!

We are sinners saved by grace and called Christians.. And so, the perfection that God expects of us is this: to be by the grace of God { not by our own strength or reason of our own} all that a Christian should be. This is Christian perfection.

This thinking has to be based on the Word As we look back, we see the depths of sin from which we were saved. Our hearts and voices are lifted to God in praise for this wonderful grace of salvation.

Hebrews 7:25 makes mention of what we are saved TO." He is able to save to the uttermost them that draw near unto God through him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."
What is this uttermost salvation? what is Christian perfection? Matthew 5: 48: " Ye shall be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect." Is Jesus commanding something possible . or is He trying to drive us to despair?

Read Matthew 5: 44-48 carefully: " I say unto you, Love your enemies, and pray for them that persecute you; that ye be sons of your Father who is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sendeth rain on the just and the unjust.
For if ye love them that love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if you salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the Gentiles the same?
YE THEREFORE SHALL BE PERFECT, AS YOUR HEAVENLY FATHER IS PERFECT."

Here we read that the Father loves all and blesses all. According to the context it is in love that we are to be perfect- not with a perfection of the head but of the heart.

1 Peter 1:15,16 " Like as he who called you is holy, be ye yourselves holy in all manner of living; because it is written, Ye shall be holy, for I am holy."

Those who are not seeking the uttermost salvation, the ready answer [excuse] to this passage is that we are holy and perfect "in Christ" But Peter anticipated this excuse when he added a phrase after the word holy, whose meaning we cannot mistake: The King James says" holy in all manner of conversation." this means that the whole expression of life should be one of practical holiness.

We are not to be holy by proxy only.
We are to be holy right now and perfect in love right now.

To stop at the truth of justification, which is only the beginning of what God wants to do for us, is a mistake.

For Jesus sake God justifies us that He may make us just and holy.
The Bible teaches not only imputation of holiness, but also impartation of holiness, for it says " we are partakers of the Holy Spirit" Hebrews 6:4

Information taken from the book The Cross and Sanctification
by T.A.Hegre who was one of the founders of Bethany.

I will soon post again on the material in Harold J Brokke's free verse~ Listen, Protestant leaders ~Eileen

Sidewalk

There is a place I see in my book which lists the speakers who came to speak at Bethany through the years: T. Austin Sparks conference 1951

Norman Grubb was the first I knew of as a close friend of the people there at Bethany. His influence was in the form of a challenge for missions before the Center was formed. The group's question was,"what could they do to further the gospel going forth to all nations?"

Mr Grubb wrote the forward to T.A. Hegre's book - The Three Aspects Of The Cross. The Title for that book is now- The Cross and Sanctification.
He writes in one section ...In this book Ted Hegre seeks to present a whole gospel- justification, sanctification, and enduement for service.

His central theme- the threefold message of the Cross- is a basic emphasis rarely presented in this form, and so, may properly be called the special revelation given to Ted Hegre.
How whole-heartedly we add our amen to this emphasis! His handling of the two-nature teaching, his differentiation between the " old man" and flesh, and his definition of flesh are illuminating.

I don't cross every one of his t's ( though he hopes to get me converted sometime!}, and I doubt that we are meant to, for we are called to union with a glorious Person not to a set of doctrines.

.[skipping on in his writing]...From my point of view, what makes this book ring with reality is the behind-the-scenes outworking of these truths in the ordinary folk on Bethany staff, for on them is obviously the divine unction.

You know of course who Norman Grubb was. At the time of this writing he was General Secretary of the WEC.[Worldwide Evangelization Crusade] Many of the first students completing training were sent out through this Mission. Founded by C.T.Studd. Mr. Grubb knew C.T. well as her married Pauline the daughter of C.T.

Lenard Ravenhill suggested a replacement for himself as he could not keep his commitment for conference due to health.

This replacement was Paris Reidhead [probably 1954] Here's a human interest story.. In the 50's Bethany was concerned about constructing an auditorium to hold the increasing number of persons attending the Bible conferences. However, to build a large building just for Sunday services and conferences, did not seem very practical.

However, during one of Reidhead's visits, as he sat in the dining hall with Ted Hegre and Richard Dahlen, he used a napkin to design a building that would not only seat about a thousand persons but included space for dormitory rooms, a medium-size meeting room, elders' prayer room, choir room, video/audio projection room for taping the services, and also a sound proof room where mothers with small children could view and hear the entire service. This became the basic plans for the church.

Rev. Paris Reidhead was a very learned man commissioned by the UN as Industrial Development Organization Consultant to formulate logistics for supplying food to people starving in third-world nations in Africa. He established WEC sending bases in Charlotte. Pittsburg, Seattle and Toronto .

Ten Shekels and a Shirt was delivered at Bethany. Rev. Reidhead said this is the only message he ever felt he needed to explain how it came about. You can read this explanation by simply using your search engine- typing in the words~ Message Ten Shekels and a Shirt~...click on Truth in Heart and there you go
also ParisReidheadteachingministries.org

Leonard and Martha Ravenhill and sons, Paul, David, and Philip, invited and sponsored by Bethany to come to the States from England. Rev. Ravenhill made Bethany his home for himself an family for seven years as he traveled extensively throughout the United States, South America and even to other countries including Australia and New Zealand. Paul, became a missionary to Paraquay; David a missionary to the Islands of the Pacific and Philip an executive with the Smithsonian Institute. Rev. Ravenhill and Martha finally moved to Finley, Texas where he maintained a worldwide ministry through speaking and correspondence.

Bethany's latest ministry is found at www.publish4all.com about 3 minutes into a short video comes the information on a great break-through in placing publishing centers in strategic places through out the world.

There is a place of quiet rest, near to the heart of God,
A place where sin cannot molest, near to the heart of God.
O Jesus, blest Redeemer, Sent from the heart of God,
Hold us, who wait before Thee, Near to the heart of God. Hymn [ no author of this verse is mentioned]

Many a student expressed that they felt a settling of peace upon entering the grounds. Quiet Rest is a good description.
I agree with Mr Grubb that those people walked with God.I learned more by watching the message of the Cross being lived out in the lives of the staff than from any book or manual. I bless God for the privilege of becoming acquainted with so many saints of God

One remaining original staff ~ celebrated his 103 birthday this past year!

Sincerely, Eileen~ alumni 1954-1957