How Do You Understand Gen. 33 re Jacob and Esau?

Been pondering Genesis 33. Jacob and Esau's meeting at Peniel. Esau asks Jacob to come to Seir with him. Jacob begs off. Some commentaries say Esau was offering to accompany Jacob to Bethel, but I don't see that. The only place Esau mentioned was Seir (Edom).

Here's how I am reading it: Even though Jacob and Esau spoke peacefully to each other, there is an undercurrent of Esau luring Jacob far away. Most commentators give Esau a lot of credit here as a rehabilitated, forgiving man. They read into Esau’s offer to have his men accompany Jacob as a sincere offer to help Jacob safely go to Canaan. But, the only place Esau ever mentioned going was Seir/Edom. It is maybe just my view, but I think Esau hoped to lure Jacob and his family away from Issac (which is where Jacob was ostensibly headed toward when Esau ran into him). I think his offer of men to accompany him were really men to keep an eye on him and make sure he didn’t get away.

Well, if Esau wanted Jacob dead, why not just kill him there? If Esau had slaughtered Jacob and managed to wipe out only part of his family at Peniel, (remember Jacob had split them up) chances are that Issac would’ve learned of it. Esau did not hate his father. It is unlikely that he would’ve wiped out all of Jacob’s heirs in Peniel. I just don’t know that he was as forgiving as many read him to be here.

No doubt, Jacob sensed that to follow Esau would have been to subject himself and his family and servants and livestock to Esau. Is it likely (?) even that Esau thought he could take lure Jacob to Seir, far from Issac, and eliminate the whole Israeli bloodline, and ”“ much like would be done to Jacob by Joseph’s brothers ”“ Esau could be the consoling son of bad news ”“ "Oh, Father, your son Jacob and his family have been destroyed in an ambush and his whole house is desolate. But, I’m here for you.”

I'm finding it hard to read Esau, after this seething revenge that had built up all these years, as a reformed man. Edom, after all, would not be kind to Israel.

In Obadiah, God specifically condemns Esau/Edom. "Because of the violence done to your brother Jacob, shame shall cover you and you shall be cut off forever." He said, "Jacob shall be a fire and the house of Esau stubble...".

What are your thoughts?

Maybe Jacob should have begged Esau's forgiveness long before the hatred had a chance to take root.

I don't believe Esau was as forgiving as he said.

If he was, he forgot to pass it on to his descendants. If he had they would not have denied the children of Israel permission to cross their land on the way to the promised land. Nor would they have gloated when Jerusalem was overrun.

Just my thoughts.
REJOICE! =)
Mary

*edited for spelling error

Mary, that is a part of why I am suspicious of the popular read of Jacob and Esau's meeting and their departure from Peniel. Even of the Edomites were not such an enemy I would be suspicious of it, but I would have more doubt about my reading of it. I am still digging that out but I am not having much success. Everyone seems convinced that Esau was genuinely forgiving and trying to help Jacob.

Now, I can see that, too. I have an older brother. Our relationship is strained. We have always been very close. He is doing some things that he justifies, and he has more or less placed himself beyond having anything to do with me. It involves a woman he ought not to be with -- won't go into all that -- but he is wrapping himself around her. He did this with someone else years ago. We used to be in the middle of each other's business daily, and now I have seen him twice in a year. We text from time to time about small talk, football usually. We have talked on the phone briefly a few times in that year.

If he came up my street seeking reconciliation and restoration of our family tie, we would probably run to each other in slow motion, arms open, tears flowing, daisies floating around and all that. :) We love each other, and it is a complicated but not hostile history with us. We grew up through a lot with one another and have been really close even with conflicts that brothers have.

I know why it is easier to read this account in that kind of slant. But, I think it is a pollyanna reading. I think their relationship is more complicated than that, and way more so than mine with my brother. The anger of Esau. The sheer lowdown treachery of Jacob. The impulsivity of Esau. The long-memoried, patient plotting of Jacob. Do you think when Esau saw Jacob, love and forgive-and-forget swarmed over him? I just don't. I think anger and pent up frustration and ten thousand replays of Jacob's treacheries crashed on Esau's heart. I think Jacob knew his brother well, as twins would, and he was shrewd enough to manipulate Esau with the droves of gifts and the seven bow-downs, to freeze Esau emotionally and to hope against hope that Esau would swallow his bait. Jacob the calculator was working on more than a theory or wild notion; he knew Esau. He was smarter than Esau, yet again.

Esau, I think, would have perhaps --- forgive the description but I think it fits Esau's heart toward Jacob --- holocausted Jacob and everyone with him if he had encountered them straight up without the wave of distracting gifts from Jacob. But, what Esau lacked in strategic cunning he made up for in a desire for cold-dish-served-revenge..."if I can now persuade him to Seir, I'll give HIM a goat to eat. MY spear." I think the name of Seir, meaning "goat" is telling here. Jacob stole Issac's blessing by dressing up goat as venison. I think Esau had a poetic justice in mind that his territory, named after himself in part, ("Esau" in Hebrew has a common partial root with the word for "hair" and "goat"), would be the ideal comeuppance. "I will offer him peace in goat place but take away his life....and all who are with him...and maybe get back my birthright before Issac dies."

So, I am still uncertain. Really uncomfortable with reading contrary to such a current of popular belief, but also suspicious of how the belief gets so popular. We all take things and run with them without questioning or reasoning through them, and never more so than today.

Anybody come across a comsideration of this view, positive or negative, please let me know.

It seems that the way things turned out to the good for Jacob seems to have been an answer to his prayer in Ch. 32.

If Esau did have evil intent (in other words he faked the reconciliation) there does not seem to be a hint of it in the passage. I believe he initially had evil intent but when Jacob humbled himself God changed his heart.

I guess bottom line I don't think Esau faked the reconciliation.

And that may be the case. Don't think I can be comfortable with either one as a definite answer. [shrugs]

Hmmmm...God's people just do not always behave the way they should, do they?

I think the just plan interpretation of it for what it is, is better than speculating or reading really into it. Remember when Obadiah happened and many generations had passed some with Moses and the Israelites passing through Edom. I point this out because looking at Judges, Israel forgets God and his great acts over and over and over again. Esau could very easily have forgiven Jacob and even told his relatives but years and years later his great great grandkids could have forgotten what Esau had done.

True, Matthew.

I had started my yearly thru-the-bible plan again in November (chronological --- changed from YouVersion to Olive Tree and really like it more). And, like y'all, I've read this for a long time and thought nothing more of it than the popular reading of it.

But, I don't know, it just seemed totally different to me this time. So, I read it and re-read it and backed up and re-read more. And, I just pondered it. It just seemed unnatural to me, forced even, to read it the way I've always read it.

Not trying to read into it - and want to use care not to of course. I'm wondering how much the NIV has influenced our reading of it. Among the popular translations (KJV, NIV, ESV, NASB -- I looked no further), it alone has Esau actually saying he'd like to escort Jacob to Canaan. There's just nothing linguistically to support that as far as I can see. It is implied by us, the readers. I think we are already reading into it, and certainly I may not be any less guilty of it. I am aware of it, though, and consciously trying to avoid that. That's one reason I'm seeking input from everyone here about their reading of it.