A change of command......

Blessings and all of God's goodness to all the saints here at SI. May God reveal Himself to each of you in His shekinah glory, abounding in love, peace and joy in your hearts.Let me say up front that I am not nor never have been Seventh Day Adventist or SDA. I do believe that there are saved people in that denomination. Whatever it's strength's or weaknesses are, God bless them with the rhema of His Word.What I would like us to turn too is the Holy Word of God and consider what the Scripture says. This has long been troubling my soul. I've had discussions like these, none to my satisfaction, in other forums before. Sensing the sweetness and yet maturity of this group, I thought I would chance bringing it up here.I'm certain that most here know that keeping the Sabbath Day Holy is a direct commandment of God given to Moses on the Mount. It was to be a day of rest, and it was to be a holy day unto God. Take a day off and spend it with God. What could be better, right? No cermony, no pagentry, no interference, no phone calls, no shopping, no sports, no tv. Just you, or me, and God, a holy day.We know that Jesus made it perfectly clear, that the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath. And so it was, the 7th day, as purposed in God's heart way back in Genesis. So I've asked the question, where did man ever get the authority to change the commandment of God from Saturday the 7th day, to Sunday the first day?We know that Paul taught in the Synagogues on the Sabbath as did Jesus. This was the Sabbath of the Jews, for they often taught in synagogues. When and where did it get changed? Do we read into the Scriptures what we've been taught to believe by tradition, or do we follow what the scriptures say?Yes I know the Lord rose on the first day, at least He had already risen by day light on that day. Yes I know that the saints came together on the first day of the week. But the scriptures do not say that they had church. It says they broke bread together, had a meal together. If they rested on Saturday and then got together on Sunday, that would make it reasonable to understand because they could not do that on Saturday, the Sabbath. It would be like us saying let's get together on Monday, because we don't work or defile Sunday, our holy day of rest. You do still keep Sunday as a holy day, don't you? Yes I know the scripture in Revelations that refers to the "Lords Day", but it does not say which day of the week that is. It can be any day we choose. What I don't think we have the liberty to choose is what day the Sabbath day is, or what is to be done on that day. Let us look at what God spoke to the prophet Jeremiah in chapter 17, beginning at vs. 19,Jer 17:19 Thus said the LORD unto me; Go and stand in the gate of the children of the people, whereby the kings of Judah come in, and by the which they go out, and in all the gates of Jerusalem; Jer 17:20 And say unto them, Hear ye the word of the LORD, ye kings of Judah, and all Judah, and all the inhabitants of Jerusalem, that enter in by these gates: Jer 17:21 Thus saith the LORD; Take heed to yourselves, and bear no burden on the sabbath day, nor bring [it] in by the gates of Jerusalem; Jer 17:22 Neither carry forth a burden out of your houses on the sabbath day, neither do ye any work, but hallow ye the sabbath day, as I commanded your fathers. Jer 17:23 But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction. Jer 17:24 And it shall come to pass, if ye diligently hearken unto me, saith the LORD, to bring in no burden through the gates of this city on the sabbath day, but hallow the sabbath day, to do no work therein; Jer 17:25 Then shall there enter into the gates of this city kings and princes sitting upon the throne of David, riding in chariots and on horses, they, and their princes, the men of Judah, and the inhabitants of Jerusalem: and this city shall remain for ever. Jer 17:26 And they shall come from the cities of Judah, and from the places about Jerusalem, and from the land of Benjamin, and from the plain, and from the mountains, and from the south, bringing burnt offerings, and sacrifices, and meat offerings, and incense, and bringing sacrifices of praise, unto the house of the LORD. Jer 17:27 But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched. Strong Words, beloved. This is long after the day of Moses. I would venture a guess that judging from the strong language of God, this is a really important issue with Him.Ok, ok, so you don't want to give up Sunday. After all, Paul said it is good to esteem everyday alike, amen and amen. So we choose to rest on Sunday, even though God commanded Saturday. How many can truly say that they keep this day a holy work free day?Ok, let me ask it another way, I can see some strange looks on some of your faces.... :) If I asked you if it was ok to steal, and you told me no, that it was a commandment of God, you would be right of course. If I asked you if you or any church cleric could change that commandment, you would emphatically tell me no. Not even God can change it bacause the commandment is part of His Nature. Then why pray tell, is it ok to change the commandment about the Sabbath or 7th day?Now, I'm not teaching here, saints. I'm only laying a stage from which to discuss this matter among mature saints of God. But hear me, I pray that you will consider the great cloud of witnesses in Scripture and read it for what it says face value, rather than what someone said it says.Is the Sabbath still the 7th day, or did man along the way choose his own day. Who gave man that authority. Does man keep the day he chose any more, or is it hurry to church them sports eat and play? Is the day still meaningful because it's spent with God, or has it lost it's light because it has lost it's God?In this hour we have lowered the standard to an all time low. God only knows what holds His Holy Wrath back from this nation. Perhaps it's only our alliance to Israel. But if we don't get back to the bible and obedience to God, we are in for a "whippin" like you won't believe. Am I crazy here, or does this make sense to you?In closing let me ask you this. I wonder what would happen if a body of believers got together and said, we are going to try and keep the 7th day Sabbath, no work, a Holy Day unto God for a year. Furthermore, we are going to sanctify ourselves unto God and seek His face. We are going to pray for hearts of worship filled with His presence.....I wonder what God would do? Selah.

Actually Lahry, It doesn't matter what day anyone chooses to use, whether it was changed from Saturday or Sunday or any other day. At one time the church was so engrossed in superstitions that they clung to Saturday, thinking that this was the LORD's day and were persecuted for doing so because of the sabbath change to Sunday. But as we are moving closer to the end of this age, the idea of the Sabbath is not in days, but rather it's in a person or place. It not so much a 24 hour period, it's where the true light now shineth, or in Him there is no darkness. He bids us to enter into that new DAY, that Day where we have been translated from the kingdom of darkness into the Kingdom of His dear Son. So the Kingdom of God is the LORD's Day, the Day that the ALL the prophets prophecied concerning and looked into but could not enter in. John was in the Spirit, it's not saying that John was in the Spirit for today, but it's stating a state of being. "Walk in the Spirit and you will not fulfill the lust of the flesh".The LORD's Day is where John was in the Spirit in the Kingdom of God. While he was walking in the Spirit, he heard a voice from heaven, "come up hither".The LORD's Day is the rest that Paul was talking about in Hebrews 3 and 4. The rest that many never enter into because of unbelief. The Kingdom of God suffereth voilence and the violent take it by force.Note: that that the Kingdom of God is within us, therefore when we are taking the Kingdom by way of voilence, we are wrestling with principalities and powers, we are struggling to save the soul from the dominion of the world the flesh and the devil."But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul."Many push the kingdom of God when we die and enter into it, if Canaan is liken unto heaven, then we are in for a fight. As in that land were Giants and homosexuals and all manner vices of wickedness that can be imagined.This is what it means to "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling". As the Spirit has been regenerated, but the soul is what is being changed and renewed day by day and must be conformed into the image of Jesus Christ.The image of Christ, the mind of Christ, and the glory that shall be revealed, and Christ in you the hope of glory, speaks volumes in this passage of scripture:"We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn,and the Day star arise in your hearts "Of course there will much contention regarding the LORD's Day, I have submitted mine.Karl

I so appreciate your posts. God bless you for it. I understand that Jesus is our rest,but rest from "what"? We must try to keep justification and sanctification as two seperate doctrines. They do not blend well. Both are connected as our natural birth is to our natural life. But we are not born with a PHD in Nuclear Fushion. Much has to happen along the way, and it's a long way. Thankfully, the whole process takes place in most cases while the child is still in and with his/her family.The way I understand it, and please correct me somebody if I'm wrong, is that the "rest" that Jesus became for us was the rest from our works of righteousness for justificaton. Once our sin was justified, that is it's just punishment was forever satisfied according to the law, then there was no more need for further sacrafice ever again. Any attempt to do so is blasphemous and trod's the blood of Jesus underfoot. It says what He did was not enough and we must add too it. So we rest or He is our Sabbath from ever having to do any kind of penance or justification.When sanctification begins at the new birth, then our just, loving, and merciful Father will begin to chastise along the way to keep us in the process of molding our lifestyle after that of Jesus Christ. So we become disciples, disciplined by God to follow the Way, the Truth, and the Life.So what about the Sabbath Day. If, as so many argue, the tithe or tenth is still applicable to the Christian life (not one of the 10 commandments by the way), why not setting one day aside for the Sabbath? Who ever was given the authority to stop or change the day?As for as work and so forth. Thank you for mentioning that Jesus was accused of working on the sabbath. The pharasees had turned the sabbath into a ritualistic day of pride and self righteous display of religion in it's purest form. They themselves dictated the terms, and knew nothing about following after the Spirit. We are the temple of the Holy Spirit. I can't tell you how to observe the Sabbath. All I can suggest is that we think about spending it all with God as best we can. If your heart is clear about it, praise God. If it troubles you, take a look and see why. If you have a real and abiding relationship with the Father, supported by countless yet merciful corrections along the way, then spend a day with God. Let Him dictate what He wants you to do, or leads you too. I can tell you this, when I first met the real living God in my heart and soul, I did not need to attend "worship 101". I worshipped spontaneously. But to define how the Sabbath is kept is very dangerous because as soon as we set down rules or a pattern, we start a new religious practice for the sake of the practice. Flesh loves a check list. Why? Because when we get it "done", then we relax in our justification. It is so seductive. I don't have a check list to breathe. I don't have check list to eat. When I first encountered God, I didn't have a time of when to start and stop worship. I was with God. What happened mattered not. So all these things must be considered as we live our daily lives. It is especially important when we consider the Sabbath. We don't live our lives to avoid wrong doing. We are to live our lives in Christ Jesus, the centerpiece of all righteousness. That, beloved, is far from the law. The worship and relationship with God trancends all these days. Alleluia.However, it still bothers me about this Sabbath Commandment. :-? God bless you all, I'm really enjoying the peace here. I hope this thread continues to go well. Shalom

However, the root question I am concerned with is this. If you ask a Christian what his/her holy or Sabbath day is, without question they answer Sunday unless they happen to be SDA. Who said so? God did not say so. His Word did not say so. Who said they had the authority to change it, and should we as christians follow their lead?When I was a kid, nothin was open on Sunday. You couldn't even find a place to buy gasoline. But over the years, that has all eroded away. Isn't that the same with any compromise. How long ago it began is not so much a point. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. It may take a while, but it will come to pass, unless we repent and purge our souls by the blood of the Lamb. I guess what is really on my heart is that so much of what we do today is man made for man. Oh that there were a group of Godly men and women who had no desire to position themselves, but come together in a counsel and revitalize christian theology back to the bible. Now you may say, "well Lahry, you're not going to get many takers". Perhaps. But what if God really shows up? What then? Can you imagine what it was like to be an Israelite and that tent/tabernacle was first erected in the dessert? When that altar was set up and the blue flame of the Shekinah glory of God came out of that Holy of Holies and consumed it? Listen folks, these people were not used to all the fire and smoke our society is accustomed too in the movies. Not only that, I bet that God can out do Hollywood seven days a week and it won't take Him five years to pull it off. Bam! I mean can you imagine? What will happen if say a small church of 10 got together and serpated themselves from the things of this world as much as is reasonably possible. I'm not saying seperation from the world, seperation from all the tempting things, the distractin things, the time wasting trash that we think we simply cannot live without. What if they gave themselves in charity to the service of others in their spare time, even to doing good to their neighbors who hated them? Now get this picture, what if in one of their solemn assemblies......GOD SHOWS UP!!!! Glory! Glory! How are you going to put a lid on God? How will you keep this quiet? I tell you people will be waiting in line to get into the building. Sadly, most will be there for the wrong reason. God shows up in the midst of devotion and worship, not supernatural entertainment. But when they really get into His presence, there can only be one result. Repentance and worship. Ugly flesh cannot justify itself in God's presence. It can only repent in hope of mercy and grace. Well dear saints, I suppose the pallet is much larger than the Sabbath day. We've lost our way. We need to go back to the cross, and die. Die to self. Present ourselves unto God as a living sacrafice. God is not obligated to save you or I. He is justified wholly within Himself to condemn us all. But in our hopelessness, He has shown mercy and offered unto Himself what was impossible for us to do. He Gave His only Son as a perfect ransom from ourselves. Do you think that spending hours watching HBO and MTV is giving Him honor? Do you think that spend all our free time in entertainment and sports is giving God honor and thanskgiving? The bible says we were purchased with a great price, is He getting His money's worth for you.....or for me? I tell you for a certainty I have no bragging rights. Mercy is all I can hope for. Grace is my lifeline. Oh thank God that Jesus is ever making intercession for me with the Father. As someone has already said so well here, it's time to throw down the wish list. It's time to cast off all our cares. It's time to spend time with God, just for Whom He is. "Lord, I just want to be here with You." Saints, I know I need to end this, but my keys just keep going. Let us consider that one day soon, we will stand alone before our Holy God. Truth will be exposed as bright as the sun, and nothing hidden from us or our God. We will be rewarded for what we have done in the Spirit in obedience to His moment by moment leading. I have little doubt that we will also see all the opportunties we had for reward.....yet were too busy feeding our flesh to even notice them, much less care.It's time for a shake up, dear saints. It's time for a wake up. It's time to seek first the kingdom of God. We need to know beyond a shadow of a doubt that we are in constant communion with the thone of grace and the Holy of Holies.God has lavished upon us His love and care. His heart is that we enter into abundant life. But we must die to self and completely trust Him to open that door. Are you certain it is open? Or is what you are doing just a form? It's not something you will want to settle in the next life, beloved. Do you know Him? Does He know you? What is the expression of Your love? Think about your first love in the natural. Remember how your head was in the clouds? Have you ever been that way with the Father or the Son through the Holy Spirit? Does God speak to you? Are you a vessel of His life, a tabernacle of His holiness? Or is our cup a poluted thing? Take time to think it over. Again, that quote of Esther Burr comes to mind. Maybe I'll turn it into a question. Is the business of your life to prepare for heaven? Selah.I don't know how long this is, I've just been running the keyboard here. Thank you for baring me up. May God goodness abound in your hearts and lives. As someone has already said, if we know God, it should relatively easy to make every day.....a holy day unto God. Amen? Amen.Christian hugs to one and all. You light up my life with your love, wisdom, maturity and peace. God bless you each and every one.

I think everybody here pretty much understands that it was changed and all the "reasonings" behind it, but the question is, who gave man the authority to change it? Can we say "thou shalt not steal....sometimes?" "thou shalt not bear false witness...sometimes?" How absurd to answer in agreetment with these subtle "changes". Yet subtle change has been our downfall from the very beginning in Genesis. "Surely God did not mean that".Then there is the one religion, for whowm we can really attribute the "tradition" of Sunday over Saturday, that claims that tradition and church leadership have authority over the bible and can change it as they see fit. (this thread is not about them, so please dont' go there). If we want to experience a deep and abiding relationship with our Holy God, don't you think we ought to get serious about how He wants it done? I'm not trying to run this in the ground. But I wonder if there are any out there who can just answer the question, "who gave man the authority to change a commandment of God to suit themselves"? If we cannot answer it in good concience, then perhaps we should rethink our position on how serious we are about having that relationship with God. God does not work as a rule with rebellious hearts. He wants those who will submit to His way, Jesus Christ. That gets you born again. Obedience will grow you into a mature and abiding son of the living God. Oh how I love the promise of John 14:21: that if we will keep His commands we will be loved by the Father, and Jesus Himself will manifest Himself to us. Alleluia!The spirit keeps calling saints..."go back to the bible" "Obey God if you want the abundant life." "If my people, who are called by My Name, will humble themselves and pray, and turn from their wicked way............." Oh God, I am the worst of all here. I write what I know is your heart, but the ability to follow up and live is often eludes me. God I pray for all who gather here in Your Holy Name. I pray Lord that Your blessing of a deep and abiding hunger for YOU alone would fall on each one of us. Oh God give us the will and the desire to do "Your Good Pleasure". Make us true servants Lord, that do not what we ourselves desire but what You ask of us. Give us faithful hearts, yearning hearts, humble hearts, repentent hearts. Cast us not away from Your presence oh God. Take not Your Holy Spirit from us. Restore unto us, the joy of our salvation, and renew a right spirit within each and every one. Make it the business of our lives to prepare for eternal life with You, in Jesus' Holy Name we pray.

You make some real interesting points, especially about working 6 days. But the Sabbath first took place on the 7th day. Man has a concience with which the Holy Spirit works and is able to lead us and guide us. I can no more define for you how to keep the "sabbath", than you can for me. It's an individual walk with God. But if your concience is bothering you....like mine is, hehe.....then you have peace with God and walk on. However, when it comes to truth, I cannot define truth, nor can I or anyone else change it. That is why our modern day society is so much into this "truth is what you want it to be". Kids now days don't know the meaning of the word truth, or honesty for that matter. Truth and God are one. I've really enjoyed all of your comments. In my heart, I do believe that Saturday, the 7th day, is the weekly Sabbath day instituted by God Himself. I find no where in scripture that anyone was given authority to change it. We are grafted into the true vine. To the jew, Saturday is still the Sabbath. Worship by commandment is a stence to God. Attending church to ease a man imposed obligation is a waste of time. Sabbath keeping and every other act of and toward God should be motivated only by love, confidence, devotion, and awe. Holy Worship flows freely and spontaneously from a heart that is in fellowship with the Father. Alleluia. Thanks again from bearing with my comments. I really enjoyed all of yours. God bless you all.

Thanks for the terrific post. As you and your commentator so well proclaimed, the jews had many sabbaths other than the specific Sabbath included in the 10 commandments.God said keep it holy. He also said, be ye holy, for I am holy. We are holy in Christ Jesus because of His imputed righteousness. But our hearts should ever be bent toward obedience and pray for supernatural ability to with the fight with flesh and walk after God by the leading of the Holy Spirit. Sigh.Just because Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath, does not mean that He said it aside. He became our rest from works of righteousness for justification. But that was never the purpose of the original Sabbath anyway. So I ask one more time. Who gave man the right to do what seemed good in light of and in contrast to God's clear commandment. Remember, Jesus said several times, "if you love me, you will keep my commandments". We show our love to Him and the Father by keeping the Sabbath Holy. Let's take the extreme of the High Priest. The night before he was to enter the Holy of Holies, He was kept awake all night so that He would not defile Himself with a carnal dream. They went to extreme care to make sure that the High Priest would be presented exactly as God had specified. The penalty for error was death! God had specifics for good reasons. That's why He gave us commandments.We are not justifed by our obedience, but by our faith. We know that our faith is alive by our obedience whereas apart from it, we would not be able to do those things which are so foreign to our flesh and it's fallen nature.Oh I'm tired tonight and I'll stop here. A little leaven leaventh the whole lump. A little leaventh beloved. That's because to break one is to break them all. We've become so frustrated at trying to obey God with our own strenght that we've just given up any oppostition to our flesh. If we are going to raise the bar, why not raise it back to where it belongs, where it started. As best this old mind can understand what little scripture I know, I cannot find where the 7th day change was authorized, or even changed for that matter. The fact that the saints got together on the first day means nothing in regard to the Sabbath. If they had kept the Sabbath, then on the 1st day they would then all come together for fellowship, a hymn, a testimony, a psalm. But that does not make it the Sabbath. So the way I see it, it's either Saturday or no day. All days the same. Now this is certainly our liberty, but I don't think as Paul said that it is profitable. What would happen if a small group of believers decided they would keep the 7th day for a year to honor God. I wonder what God would do? Selah.

But does that set aside the Sabbath as a holy day unto God?Just curious,