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When to find a different church to attend?

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dougkristen Apr 27, 2005

Do you know if there has been a thread on this topic before?Can anyone list 'warning signs' in a church that might result in looking for a different church to attend?I know no church is perfect, but what are some good signs and bad signs of a church to fellowship at? I desperately want to fellowship with True Believers, but lack the discernment to know how to process through the junk, both emotional and doctrinal at the church I attend.Thanks for your thoughts, prayers and ideas.Doug

sermonindex Apr 27, 2005

Doug wrote:Can anyone list 'warning signs' in a church that might result in looking for a different church to attend?Doug, there are many signs one chief sign is the compromising of the Word of God. If you were in the Church that you are attending now since the get go, you'll notice a decline in the way the messages are being presented. Sermons used to be long and people were supporting the preacher with "Amen's and Preach it", but now you notice that the sermons don't have an anointing on them as before and they have been cut short to about 20 minutes.Another sign is the over emphasis on Tithing, the congregation is never giving enough and the messages seemed to be around that, at least every other week.But if your not discerning this, you should check out what's in your life. Prayer and Fasting usually brings a host of things to the surface both in your life and what is going on in the local assembly.Another sign is the Pastor is using the pulpit to backlash on what people have been saying about him. Instead of forgiving and praying for those who despitefully use you, he is using the pulpit to get his message across to the congregation, which always brings havoc and chaos later within the congregation as this progresses.There are more, and I am sure many others will assist you.God BlessKarl

sermonindex Apr 27, 2005

I recommend you take time (might be a couple of hours, but well-spent!) to read the 'Out of church Christians' thread, as it will give you insight into various ways the Lord has been dealing with others. You will be blessed.My comments fall around the issue of whether the leadership is genuinely Christian. I think really tough questions arise if you begin to doubt the assumption one tends to make, that the pastor is born again and hears from God. It may be that he is not growing, but you are. Other issues such as membership of organisations whose raison d'etre is not compatible with Christianity (such as Freemasons), blatant sins such as lying, physical violence, sexual immorality, mocking members from the pulpit, any suggestion that a little bit of dishonesty is ok because of its prevalence (to mention only a few) - by an elder - should make it impossible for you to award double honor to him, unless you truly believe the difficulty is just a blip. (You don't sound like you are observing a 'blip'.)Whether you can remain or not, is another question. Perhaps you are seeing certain things because God has opened your eyes and He is going to teach you how to deal with them and also, how not to fall into them yourself. This may become a time of refining, before you can decide what to do.No matter what advice you find here, you still need to take time alone in prayer until you know, what God is saying to you. Good advice I was given, once, was that if I 'waited' I would become certain of God's word on the situation in question. This was true in practice but it can be hard to be obedient by not doing what comes to mind first.

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Holyhands Apr 30, 2005

A friend once told me that you can learn alot about a church by the people it produces! If you see truly godly and spiritual people there then i would be reluctant to leave! Judge by their fruits! Not just their activities! I trust this helps

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christcenter Apr 30, 2005

You might ask how many people are getting saved/baptized. If none, you might want to look where they are - I would say God's Word is there!Blessings, Jack

sermonindex May 1, 2005

...another church this morning. Sigh. I'm looking for signs of life, His life. I'll let you know how it goes. Salom.

sermonindex May 3, 2005

There is an thread from Rahman with no replies on page 2 of the Lounge called 'The Wilderness is a Preparation Place - not a Permanent Residence ...' which you all might find interesting. I certainly do and feel comforted by it.

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ReceivedText May 3, 2005

"When to find a different church to attend?"When all they expect from you is that you simply attend. No relationship, no investment in you. If you aren't being invested in and taught the apostles' doctrine....well....it it really the church?? You be the judge.You should look at the book of Acts for a template of what to expect. (generally)

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roadsign Jun 2, 2005

As I read through this thread, I got thinking, we in our western, Christianized society entertain questions that would never enter the minds of many Christians in the world. We have become accustomed to having our own choices about a lot of things - including the choice of church. I'm not convinced that having a question about church choice is a reality for most believers around the world. What if only one church exists in a community? What if one doesn't have a means to travel a distance to a better church? Or for some other reason one doesn't have the freedom to choose? Perhaps some simply cannot leave their families and go somewhere else alone. What might God's choice be? Maybe he wants to put us in a "dark" church just so that we can be a light for him. Maybe he wants to put us in a situation that "does nothing for us" because he wants us to learn to rely on HIM, and not on the church. Maybe he puts us among very fallen people in order to teach us grace, and love for the sinner. Maybe he wants us to be an intercessor for the people there. Four years ago God divinely led me to a church that would not meet any of the above criteria - not by a long shot. If I had the choice I would NEVER have picked that one. However, God's purposes for me to be there are all of the above mentioned reasons, and I am being blessed. In spite of the many strongholds, I keep on seeing the Spirit flicker here and there. Since God placed me there, I know that it is he who will lead me out when it's time.I have come to believe that our western church has become a big mission field - filled with people who need the Lord and don't know it. If God called us to the foreign mission field, he would not likely give us much choice. We would not expect to be sent to a place that is free from strongholds, and filled with many strong churches. And, when on the field, we would not hesitate from building relationships with the people there, even though they don't have our values. Shouldn't church involvement be the same?I know that there are times when we must "shake the dust off our feet" and go. But God may not wish to send us somewhere better - where we can get "fed" and enjoy sweet fellowship, but somewhere (church or otherwise) where we can grow up, break off our childish human dependencies, and grow into maturity. I have come to believe that a bad church, in itself, is not a reason to leave, and a good church, in itself, is not a reason to stay. God is our boss, and we bloom where he plants us. Diane

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Marksman Jun 2, 2005

Hey all,I've been reading Sermonindex for a while now, but this is my first post. I have been very blessed by many writings and calls to holiness resounding throughout this forum. God has been challenging me with the narrow path of holiness and denial of self, and I am also in a church where He is teaching me to love others as He loves them, to be a light in a place where sadly there is so much darkness (world).I have learnt that God is the BOSS and we are his servants, we really don't have a choice of church, we are just his obedient children, and he puts us through his purifying fire.God bless you Di, remain in him, and take joy in the little flickers of the movement of his Spirit you see in your church!loveMarcel

sermonindex Jun 2, 2005

Diane, Marcel,I'm chastened. The thought of attending a church to reach the non-Christians who attend there regularly, was first presented in a post in the 'Out of church Christians' thread. It sticks with me and you re-inforce it. I have had to leave churches because the leadership was way off track, but I see now, that having to leave was also a function of my spiritual immaturity. Spiritual growth is always desirable and looking back, I can see this, too, that sometimes one is at an impasse which has to be broken somehow, and staying in a church may actually prevent the circumstance in which it can take place. But, it is always necessary to be in face-to-face fellowship with some Christians, even if they are few and it is not 'traditional' church; one has to be able to hear each other's prayers and share each other's insights from scripture, worship the Lord in song, and love one another in the Lord.

M
MrBillPro Jun 2, 2005

I make sure any Church I attend that 99% of the people are smiling and don't look as though there going to a funeral. :-P

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ccchhhrrriiisss Jun 2, 2005

There are alot of churches to choose from, so I would definitely pray and fast when choosing a church (or choosing to leave a church).I attended a church for several years that at one point was a wonderful place to worship, fellowship and grow. But over time, something changed. The pastor began to preach alot of odd "prosperity" messages. He also became very much fixated on his "authority." It eventually came to a point where no one was allowed to disagree with the pastor, because the pastor "was the voice of the Lord" and "God's annointed." If someone quietly opposed something controversial that the pastor began doing, they were osticized by him (often publically). Eventually, the pastor began "kicking out" those who disagreed with him. To this pastor, just "questioning" his actions, messages or behavior was a "sin." What was so perplexing was how quickly this man fell from being a very humble man of God into a prosperity preaching man with an "authoritarian" attitude! He also began holding an attitude that, "if God is going to move in this town, it will ONLY happen in THIS church!" And the pastor was dedicated to holding a monopoly on a "move of God" in the town. It crushed the hearts of many who attended the church. After a while, the pastor allowed alot of very questionable men to come and preach. When someone disagreed with them, the pastor told them to leave the church. Ironically, the pastor would sometimes change his position and attitude toward some of the guest preachers or their doctrine. He would quietly not invite them back. This was of little solace to those who were earlier forced out of the church due to holding the same beliefs.This pastor became a very dangerous man. The church itself is now a haven for gossip -- directed at anyone who couldn't line up with the pastor's "vision" for the church. Without any voice of opposition, the pastor now has free reign to do as he wishes. It is both very sad -- and very frightening! Money, time, and effort are often spent on very ridiculous ideas. And when they fail, the pastor blames the failure on others. The church eventually went through several "phases" of modern "neo-charasmatic" practices and doctrines. The church experienced Holy Laughter (for several months until it got "old"), Gold Dust & Fillings (for several months until it got "old"), and many other neo-charasmatic experiences. Preachers would come with conflicting accounts of heavenly visits (no two were alike) and other miraculous events. One evangelist even claimed that a 12-foot tall owl spoke to him saying, "Whoooooo do you think you are? I have had this town too long. Whooooooo are you to oppose me?" In this south-Texas town, many of the locals tell ghost-stories about the evil that is associated with owls. Thus, many people were gullible enough to never question the stories told by preachers like this (or question the fact that there are no such thing as 12-foot owls).I stayed at the church for several seasons, believing that God could restore that pastor to the man he was before. I figured that one day, he would notice that he had lost something (like Samson's hair and strength), and he would eventually turn into the man I knew he was. Besides, many of his motives seemed very pure. He really seemed to care about the lost, and he constantly preached that our church should do more to win the lost. He would talk about visions of standing-room-only crowds. As time went by, however, I fear that this became his motivation -- a huge, outwardly "vibrant" church.I sadly left the church. But now, I am actually glad that I did. I now attend a church where the pastor is a very humble servant of the Lord, who could care less about being respected as a "great" man of God. Instead, he is concerned with shepherding the flock, encouraging the troubled, winning the lost, and discipling the congregation. My new pastor encourages the elders of the Church to voice their ideas and concern about the affairs of the church. He tells them that he is eager to listen to them share whatever is on their heart. He tells the congregation to not take his word like a blank check, but to be like the "Bereans" -- and search the scripture to make sure what he says is true. Hopefully, my former church will realize the truth that "in the multitude of advisors, a king is made safe." Unfortunately, it appears that the pastor has kicked out nearly everyone who had any type of thought contrary to those he held dear. Like the builders of Babel -- they are accomplishing quite a bit. But it doesn't seem to be the type of unity that the Lord desires.

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PreachParsly Jun 2, 2005

The biggest warning sign (i think) would be in the preaching. When hell and sin is not mentioned, I would say its time to leave. Also If hell and sin is mentioned make sure its in a right spirit. You want preaching that convicts not condemns.

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roadsign Jun 3, 2005

MrBillPro said, I make sure any Church I attend that 99% of the people are smiling and don't look as though there going to a funeral. MrBillPro, I know just the church for you! In this church 99% of the people are sad and depressed, including the minister. They have had years of troubled leadership and lost two-thirds of their congregation – many of them good workers. Now they feel trapped. Because you value a joyful and positive spirit in a church, you would be the perfect member for this church. Why, you could get to know the people, empathize with their pain, reaffirm them, and give them hope in Christ. Your positive energy would rub off on them for sure. Then the church would not be so sad anymore, and you would have even more joy in your own heart because God used you to contribute to the change of atmosphere. (You might think I’m just kidding, but really, I’m sharing a real story. It has happened)Diane

sermonindex Jun 3, 2005

ccchhhrrriiisss,What an excellent description of a church like one I used to attend, only difference being I'm not sure the 'pastor' was originally a humble man of God, but much else was an incredibly accurate synopsis. I've never heard anyone else put into words the constellation of thought patterns, behaviours and justifications I witnessed - was part of for several years.Money, time, and effort are often spent on very ridiculous ideas. And when they fail, the pastor blames the failure on others. In this last aspect, I believe my biggest loss was in being prevented from continuing to follow the voice of God in my life by the presentation of active opposition, but confusingly, interspersed with active support. It took a long time to get back my confidence in judging that God was indeed speaking and if I obeyed, there would be no repercussions such as being made a fool of in public or some other way paying for it. Had it been a situation with non-Christians, it would not have been a problem but an additional layer of confusion follows this kind of management from someone claiming to know the Lord.

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tinluke Jun 3, 2005

Dear Diane, I sort of agree with what you're saying. I believe that if we are true followers of Christ, we will have times of terrible saddness. The heart of God is greived for the conditoin of His Church and for a dead and dying world. We ask for His heart and I believe His heart is heavy for His chuch, but when we come together on Sunday shouldn't we be glad?? Shouldn't we be rejoicing because HE IS! Because He has risen and we are redeemed because of His blood. Because the King of kings has not only adopted us into His kingdom, but also died for us so that we may live. I think that there is much to be sad or even depressed about concerning the church, but of what concequence is that in light of who is HE is??? We need to worship Him and be glad no matter what is going on around us. I think we have a poor testimony to the world if we can't even be happy on Sunday...

K
KingJimmy Jun 3, 2005

I've noticed that in Revelation 2-3, only 2 of the 7 churches named were deemed faithful. The rest had some problems... very serious ones at that, yet the Lord never called one person out of those churches to go to the one next door. Rather, He called them to repent.

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tinluke Jun 3, 2005

For anyone who is considering leaving their church please listen to sermon titled "run for your life" by Carter Conlon. It's on page 4. If I had any computer skills whatsoever, I would have posted the link for you. :-?

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roadsign Jun 3, 2005

When hell and sin is not mentioned, I would say its time to leave. I suspect that if your advice was taken by everyone, the vast majority of the churches would have to shut down. We live in times, like ancient Israel, when many only want “ear tickling” messages, and there are plenty willing to give it. Over the past several years, I’ve heard a lot of complaints about weak sermons; and I’ve been seeing people hop from one church to another in search of “good” preaching. It was happening with such regularity that, after a while, when someone complained about the preaching, I gave them good Christian books, sent them web links, or, lately, I put them onto SI. If they don’t seem to latch on to the vast wealth of available resources, then I suspect that they only want the security of church more than they want good convicting preaching. Maybe they don’t WANT to grow spiritually in Christ. In our society, anyone who WANTS to learn God’s ways can find messages/books/bibles easily, and without much cost. They don’t need to depend on the weekly sermon in their church (which is not enough to sustain anyone). And above all, they can seek the Lord to convict them, to teach them and guide them by the Spirit. And he can lead them to healthy fellowship. Well, that's the way it seemed to happen to me. ______________________Chris, it looks like you’ve had to face some painful realities about church life. I’ve been in a similar situation. Those experiences shocked me into truths that I never wanted to see – about human nature, including myself. I must admit that it took those troubles to bring me to God, falling on my face, confessing my own many sins, including my idolatrous reliance on church and on man, my lack of faith, and much more. But through it all I found God, like I had never known him, and I'm very excited about that. Perhaps the lesson is this: When church goes bad, first seek what God is doing within us through the troubles, then let him lead us out in his time, if that is his will. He is much more interested in our well-being and our growth than we could ever be. "Run for your Life" by Colon Carterhttps://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?lid=1724Diane

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