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Theology

The stumblingblock of ELECTION

D
docs Feb 1, 2015

Albertus Pieters (1897-1987)

Former professor of Bible and Missions at Western Theological Seminary in Holland, Michigan.

Quoting Pieters,

"God willed after the institution of the New Covenant there should no longer be any Jewish people in the world ”“ yet here they are! That is a fact-a very sad fact, brought about by their wicked rebellion against God.” [1]

"But is it not monstrous to hold that by reason of this wickedness the said undesired and undesirable group are now heirs of the many exceedingly precious promises of God? Shall we be accused of anti-Semitism, because we speak thus of the Jews? We have not spoken so harshly as the apostle Paul, who knew them intimately and loved them passionately...[Pieters here quotes I Thess 2;14-16]. How is it possible to believe that there are still prophecies of divine grace to be fulfilled in a group upon which the wrath of God has come to the uttermost?” [2]

"Some years ago, in a conference,I heard a brother minister say: "God is through with the Jews.” At that time, this statement startled me, and I thought it extreme, but the more I study the Scriptures the more it seems to me he certainly was right. And, after all, was he saying anything more than the Lord Jesus Christ said, addressing the unbelieving people through the symbolism of the barren fig tree: "Let there be no fruit from thee henceforward forever?” (Matthew 21:19). [3]

"There are at present people in the world who are called, and who call themselves "The Jews”. They claim they are the continuation of ancient Israel, and are the "seed of Abraham” to whom the divine promises were made, and to whom they are to be fulfilled. The claim is conceded by many earnest Christian people who believe that they find in the Bible very important prophecies that must one day be fulfilled in this company who are called "The Jews”, who worship in the synagogue and adhere to the Talmud....How could the Jews be held together and continue to be a "peculiar people” [without a temple, a country, a government]? Only by persevering in all possible rigidity the ordinances handed down from the fathers, with regard to eating and drinking, trimming or shaving the beard, observing fasts and feasts, circumcision, Sabbath keeping on the seventh day of the week, synagogue worship, prohibition of intermarriage, etc., etc. These things must henceforth be their life; for if these were lost all was lost, and they must expect speedily to be absorbed in the mass of the population around them.[4]

"Ignorant that their separateness from the rest of the world was in the divine purpose temporary, they strove to render it permanent. Thus that which had been in itself good became through their error a source of poison in the life of the world; and "The Jew” became the great persistent international problem.” [5]

1-5, all quotes from The Seed of Abraham (Grand Rapids, 1950) (END)

It's often been said that nothing offends the natural man more than divine election. Divine election is the great dethroner and destroyer of anything man has to offer in regards to his salvation. Salvation does not come through the will of him who runs and works or decides but it depends upon the God who chooses apart from any moral or religious qualification within the one who has been chosen. Nothing grates against man's pride more than this. Surely God sees something good that causes Him to choose! No He doesn't. That God chooses upon this basis is an offense to the wisdom and view of the world that man has to show some type of moral aptitiude before God will choose them. The same with the Jew in my opinion. It's said by many God can't possibly still be involved with the Jews because look what they have done and look how they act today and modern Israel is hardly a picture of what God desires. True. Yet God doesn't choose upon the basis of how one is acting or what they have done in the past. He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity. Therefore man's outlook and wisdom and contribution is brought to nought. In all of his reasoning and postulating, perhaps Mr. Pieters ought to have kept in mind divine ELECTION apart form any moral qualification on the part of the one chosen. This election is designed to offend man and his pride. What are the great eschatological themes but a outworking of the reality of divine election? If a future for Israel is offensive maybe it's more than just a different way of seeing the scriptures. Can a prideful root against God's right to choose who He will irregardless of any qualifications on their part have been exposed?

I offer this as food for thought on this Sunday morning.If I've been too hard or outspoken I didn't mean to be. Civl, thoughtful and respectful comments are welcome if anyone is inclined. Please stay on topic if you do reply. I pray you are blessed as you walk with the Lord this day.

S
Sidewalk Feb 1, 2015

Anecdotal evidence of divine intervention on behalf of the current nation of Israel is astounding. Recently radar was tracking a missile headed for a populated area, when a freak wind just whipped it off course and it landed harmlessly somewhere else. The radar operators were incredulous.

Another story is from when Israeli tanks were caught between the enemy and a mine field- another freak wind suddenly blew the sand away and exposed the mines so the tanks could make it to safety.

The call went out immediately after WWII for some American fighter pilots who were Jewish to sneak into Israel and fly some planes that had been found in Poland- left over from the Nazis- in defense of the new nation which was under attack from the angry neighbors. Against impossible odds, the men in these rickety planes repelled massive enemy forces. An awesome story one can Google.

There is more to all this than can fit into our limited theological perspectives. Paul said there is no longer Jew and Greek, no longer male and female, no longer do we hide out in group identities but are individually called to become personally connected to the Father through His Son Jesus. No one, whether a Jew or a woman or a Mongolian can trust his or her people group for a guarantee of eternal life. Yet in the purposes of God, nations matter and there will be mysteries created as He oversees the affairs of men.

In the meantime, there is no better show than watching what happens in Israel!

T
TMK Feb 1, 2015

quote: 'Yet God doesn't choose upon the basis of how one is acting or what they have done in the past. He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity."

It is not offensive that God does not choose on the basis of merit. What's offensive is the second sentence, the idea that "He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity." But lets not get into that debate.

Docs- why is the "Israel issue" so important to you? I know you post on it frequently. I am just curious as to why some people take special interest in this. What do you hope to accomplish? I do believe that Jewish people have a special place in God's heart- if they accept Christ as Messiah like all other persons must.

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docs Feb 2, 2015
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docs Feb 2, 2015
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docs Feb 2, 2015
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docs Feb 2, 2015
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docs Feb 2, 2015

I don't have a clue as to what just happened because I didn't click the Submit button. Can the blank errors below possibly be deleted?

With apologies.

T
TMK Feb 2, 2015

I thought you were using invisible ink!

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docs Feb 2, 2015

Ha, if you had true discernment you would have known what I wrote with that invisible ink!

I honestly wasn't near the Sumbit box. Oh well.

D
docs Feb 3, 2015

TMK wrote,

quote: 'Yet God doesn't choose upon the basis of how one is acting or what they have done in the past. He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity."

It is not offensive that God does not choose on the basis of merit. What's offensive is the second sentence, the idea that "He chooses according to His sovereign choice made from eternity." But lets not get into that debate.

docs: "just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should bne holy and blameless before Him." (Ephe 1:4)

"For He was foreknown before the foundation of the world, but has appeared in these last times, for the sake of you." (I Peter 1:20)

"who are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God..." (I Peter 1;2)

The reality of election exists and this election comes from decisions made in eternity. I realize there are nuances to this view that have been presented and there are different ways some people look at it but still, election from eternity exists based entirely on God's choice.

TMK wrote,

Docs- why is the "Israel issue" so important to you? I know you post on it frequently. I am just curious as to why some people take special interest in this. What do you hope to accomplish? I do believe that Jewish people have a special place in God's heart- if they accept Christ as Messiah like all other persons must.

docs: I'm not dispensational nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Meanwhile, why shouldn't one take an interest in the subject if they believe many of the things the prophets spoke of regarding Israel and the last days are becoming more and more evident. Anti-semitism is on the rise and there is a growing civil war of sorts beginning to intensify in the church regarding the relevance of modern Israel. Those who believe in a future for Israel don't believe the Jewish eschatological remnant will gain entrance to God's kingdom just because they are Jewish. It's the children of promise who are the true sons of Abraham. Israel as a nation will have to embrace the cross just like anyone else. The issue is not whether they have a special place in God's heart and will be saved if they accept Christ as the Messiah. Most Christians believe that. The issue set to divide the church and sift many hearts is whether or not Israel has a future as an all redeemed nation. I have chose to believe that they do. Since the scenario portrayed involving Israel at the end of the age is increasingly being played out on the world stage why shouldn't one be interested? Growing anti-semitism in the world is a sign in itself these prophesied things are coming to pass. That's not saying those who believe Israel has no future are anti-semitic. I don't believe that. Yet the church has barely stoked the fires of true repentance before the Jewish people for being among their chief persecutors many times in history. Yet we still tell then your nation has no future.

You ask,

"What do you hope to accomplish?" I could ask also what do you hope to accomplish by responding? If it's somewhat of a non issue to you you've been among the first to respond somewhat negatively more than once. What is your purpose?

"But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God’s purposes as revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great." (Daniel 12:4 - Amplified Bible)

Searching thorugh the prophetic books as never before is a good thing to do at this point in my opinion. That is part of why I post on this subject. I hope to help create a good ole godly interest in the eschatological scriptures because I think more or less that the deal is on.


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TMK Feb 3, 2015

quote: "The issue set to divide the church and sift many hearts is whether or not Israel has a future as an all redeemed nation."

What do you mean by a "redeemed nation?" I guess your answer to this question will decide whether I agree with you or not. If by this you mean "an entire nation of people who are saved by the blood of Jesus Christ and fully devoted followers of Him," then I agree. If you mean "an entire nation redeemed by God because they are Jewish" then I can't agree.

The other issue is "who is Jewish today?" There has been a lot of watering down over the centuries.

This discussion is locked.

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