The True Israel of God by L. R. Shelton Jr.

Since I have noticed certain threads and/or posts that are in favor of the views of Dispensationalism and oppose what is known as Covenant Theology, I thought it would be ok to share a series of articles (in this same thread, maybe one per week), showing the scriptural basis for the other side of this discussion. So here's the first of an 8-part series on this topic. Civil discussion is encouraged.

1. Abraham's Spiritual Seed

Based upon the clear teachings of God's holy, inerrant, unbroken, verbally inspired Word, our purpose in this study on THE TRUE ISRAEL OF GOD is to show that the Scriptures teach in clear, bold, unmistakable truths, that all believers, God's children by the new birth, are the true Israel of God; and that they, and they alone, are God's chosen people upon the earth today and are the present heirs of the promises made to Abraham and his seed in Christ.

We will also be setting forth that the physical nation of Israel in the land of Palestine in the Near East today, is not God's chosen people or nation after the flesh, and neither will they ever again be dealt with as a nation in a socalled 1000-years of earthly prosperity, with Christ sitting upon an earthly throne in Jerusalem. No, the Scriptures plainly teach that the nation of Israel was set aside at Calvary and that God's dealing with them now is the same as His dealings with the Gentiles: "For there is no respect of persons with God [there is no difference between Jew and Gentile]...for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God" (Rom 2:11; 3:22, 23).

This precious truth of true believers being the true Israel of God has been lost among the false teaching of the past 150 years. This false teaching says that God will yet deal with Israel as a nation, His chosen nation, and that most all of the promises of the Old Testament given to Israel are physical promises and not spiritual, and that the Jew will again arise as the chosen people of God in a so-called 1000-year reign of Christ upon this earth.

As I have studied this subject in the past years, I have been greatly blessed to see my spiritual position in Christ, based upon His election of grace, and how that I, as a child of God, am an heir of Abraham and the promises made to him in Christ as his seed. My one desire therefore in setting forth these truths is to magnify my risen, exalted Lord Jesus Christ who sits upon His throne in heaven now, ruling over His people and over all of the inhabitants of this earth. "All power [all authority] is given unto me [Christ] in heaven and in earth" (Mat 28:18). "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him" (1Pe 3:22). For God has set Christ "at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all" (Eph 1:20-23). We will seek to show from God's Word that our Lord Jesus Christ is now King of kings and Lord of lords and that He already sits upon David's throne in the heavenlies.

Another desire in this present study is that the Holy Spirit will be pleased to open the eyes of His people to let them see the vast array of precious promises which are theirs as the spiritual seed of Abraham; and that they will feed and live upon these promises as they wait for the Lord from heaven. Also, my prayer is that when we have seen this gracious truth, we will no longer hold out any false hope to the Jews that they are the chosen nation of God, but that through repentance and faith they must have a present hope in Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ of God--a hope, I say, in His shed blood and righteousness as their only means of approach unto God and entrance into heaven: "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh; but he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God" (Rom 2:28, 29). These Scriptures teach that only a work of grace wrought in the heart by the Holy Spirit will prepare a man for heaven, Jew or Gentile; and that the true Jew is one who has been born again.

Now with your Bible in hand, let us see what the Word of God teaches upon this subject. "To the law and to the testimony" (Isa 8:20)--What saith the Scripture? First, there is one Scriptural truth that must be kept in mind and it is this: the Scriptures teach that in all of God's dealings with mankind from the time of Adam we may discern the same principle at work: namely, "First the natural, then the spiritual" (1Co 15:45, 46). God had progressively revealed His purpose through, first, His dealings with the natural Israel; second and finally, His dealings with spiritual Israel. There is no Scriptural basis for the regressive idea that God's dealings will again be centered exclusively on natural Israel at some future date, this would be going from natural to spiritual and back to natural again. If you will check your Bible you will find that the writers of the New Testament did not violate this principle of God, for in relating over 100 Scriptures from the Old Testament they always gave them a Spiritual meaning and applied them to spiritual Israel, the Church, the bornagain believers of all ages.

Now let us proceed. In his letter to the Ephesians, Paul said that the revelation God gave him about the church unlocked a mystery which had been hidden in God since the beginning of the world, namely, that all of God's people, whether Jews or Gentiles by natural descent, were to be members of the same body (Eph 3:5, 6, 9).

To Paul it was revealed that it was God's eternal plan to have, not a small nation of His own, but a worldwide body of His people drawn from all "nations, and kindred, and people, and tongues" (Rev 7:9). This was the great and wonderful "mystery of Christ" (Eph 3:4) that Paul and the other New Testament writers came to understand and to preach.

The apostle said that in time past the Gentiles were "without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world" (Eph 2:12). But now God was freely offering His unsearchable riches (Eph 3:8) to people of all nations without requiring a change in their natural citizenship. Gentiles who had been aliens from the commonwealth of Israel were now, in Christ, "no more foreigners, but fellowcitizens" with the new and spiritual Israel. Those who had been strangers were now, in Christ, "no more strangers...but members of the household of God" (Eph 2:19).

So the commonwealth of Israel, the family and household of God, now containes both Jew and Gentile. Paul argued that this family and household was made up of only those who believed in Christ as their Lord and Savior. Those who were citizens of the Israel of Old, but who had not received Christ, were simply unsaved members of one of the many nations of the world. Thus, he said: "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel" (Rom 9:6) and those who were not, he termed "Israel after the flesh" (1Co 10:18). Also, when we look into Galatians, we find the apostle Paul again dealing with this great subject of Abraham's seed, the true Israel of God. There had come among the believers at Galatia the Judaizers, who were teaching that a man could not be saved except he became a Jew outwardly, by circumcision of the flesh. Therefore, the grace of God had been perverted by these Jews who would not bow to the authority of God's Word, that is, the truth that He was through with physical Israel as a nation. They took pride in the fact that they were the physical descendants of Abraham, and because of this, they were more favored than the Christians. So Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, wrote this letter to refute this false teaching.

In chapter one he calls it "another gospel," which teaches that a man has certain advantages in the flesh because he was born a physical descendant of Abraham. In chapter two he states emphatically that a man is not justified before God on the basis of law-works (anything after the flesh), but justification comes only by the faith of Christ as he looks away from all merit and trusts his never-dying soul into the hands of the Lord Jesus, on the basis of His cross-work and His resurrection.

In chapter three Paul said that Abraham's standing with God came by grace, through faith, and that Abraham was saved by the same gospel that is preached today (verse 8). He states that Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him for righteousness" (vs. 6 & Rom 4:3). Also, he said that Abraham's children are only those people who are saved by the gospel: "They which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham" (vs. 7). Therefore believers alone are the true descendants and offspring of Abraham. Natural descent is meaningless. To be a child of Abraham and the true Israel of God, we must "walk in the steps of that faith of our father Abraham" (Rom 4:12). Abraham and his God-fearing descendants in those years before Christ, looked forward by faith to the coming of Christ; and all of those who today would be God's children must look back by faith to that same event and to that same person of Christ.

So it matters not from which nation we came, for God "preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed" (Gal 3:8). Therefore those of every nation who avail themselves of the truth of the gospel become the children of Abraham, the children of God. There is no other way, "for ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus" (Gal 3:26).

Also in this third chapter, we note that the promises were made to Abraham and his seed. And who is the seed? "Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, and to seeds, as of many; but as of one, and to thy seed, which is Christ" (vs. 16). So if Christ is the Seed, then all who are in Him are included: "If ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise" (vs. 29).

Dear friend, I ask you this, are you Christ's? Have you been born again from above? Have you committed your life to Him? If you have, then you are the seed of Abraham, a Jew, which is one inwardly (Rom 2:29), and an heir with your fellow believers of all the Old Testament promises.

Further proof of this great truth is found in Romans 4:13-17. "For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed through the law, but through the righteousness of faith...it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham who is the father of us all, (as it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations)."

Nothing could be plainer than this truth--that only they who are in Christ are in Abraham, and therefore are partakers of the Old Testament promises. "They are not all Israel, which are of Israel: neither, because they are the seed of Abraham are they all children: but in Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, they which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed" (Rom 9:6-8). "The flesh profiteth nothing, it is the Spirit that quickeneth" (John 6:63). "The natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned" (1Co 2:14).

The plain Word of God is not to be argued with. These verses tell us that the natural descendants of Abraham after the flesh are not the children of God. Therefore twentieth century Israel is not the chosen nation of God; they cannot be, for they have rejected Christ as their Messiah, just like the 1st century did. They abide under the curse of God as unbelievers. The only chosen nation today are both Jews and Gentiles who have been born again by the Spirit of God and have availed themselves of the blessings of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ. These only "are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people" (1Pe 2:9).

Source: http://tcc.customer.sentex.ca/Shelton/LRS-index.php?page=Israel1

I certainly agree with Mr. Shelton.

Shelton also denies the second coming of Jesus,He states....

"..... It is equally wrong to believe that He will come a second time to rule with a "literal" rod of iron and to reform society by enforcing high moral and ethical standards that the world otherwise was, and is, unwilling to obey."

Absolutely wrong. . As Jesus stated plainly in the scriptures he will return again a second time literally and bodily and will rule forever and ever.

With respect to Israel's present relationship with God, they are lost and bound for hell if they continue to reject Jesus. They are not different from Gentiles except that they, more than anyone, should have believed on Him from the beginning. But, they, as much as anyone, if they believe on Jesus and obey the gospel, are objects of the same mercies that God showers on all who believe.

Nope

Jesus will rule and reign for 1000 years on this earth and then afterwords
the everlasting kingtom will be established.

Rev 20: 4
And I saw thrones, and they sat on them, and judgment was committed to them. Then I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their witness to Jesus and for the word of God, who had not worshiped the beast or his image, and had not received his mark on their foreheads or on their hands. And they lived and reigned with Christ for a[a] thousand years. 5 But the rest of the dead did not live again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

In order to interpret that passage in Revelation (a book filled with symbolism throughout) in a strictly wooden, literal fashion, one cannot interpret the following passages in a literal way:

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 11 Therefore, since all these things will be dissolved, what manner of persons ought you to be in holy conduct and godliness, 12 looking for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be dissolved, being on fire, and the elements will melt with fervent heat? 13Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth in which righteousness dwells. 14 Therefore, beloved, looking forward to these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, without spot and blameless”-2 Pet. 3:10-14

Peter says we look forward to new heavens and a new earth at Christ's second coming, the eternal state, not a temporary earthly kingdom. Jesus said, ""My kingdom is not of this world. If My kingdom were of this world,My servants would fight, so that I should not be delivered to the Jews; but now My kingdom is not from here."-John 18:36

"For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ all shall be made alive. 23 But each one in his own order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who are Christ's at His coming. 24 Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power.”1 Cor.15:22-24

Notice the progression there. Paul says that Christ was the first to be raised from the dead, then those who are Christ’s at His Coming will also be raised, then comes the end, not a temporary earthly kingdom; and especially not an earthly kingdom in which Old Testament priests, laws, and sacrifices will be reinstated. No, Christ fulfilled all those types and shadows. Those are weaker elements and Christ is the substance. He is our our Great Prophet, our Great High Priest, our Great King of kings and Lord of lords; He's our true Temple, our Passover Lamb, the true Seed of Abraham and true Israel. It’s all about Him! We are not to look to going back to types and shadows, but rather we are to look forward to the everlasting kingdom of God in the new heavens and new earth.

Those are just a few of many passages that teach that Christ is coming back to establish His eternal kingdom that will never pass away, not a temporary earthly kingdom. Considering the fact that the book of Revelation is filled with symbolic language throughout, I believe it's more correct to take Peter and Paul more literally as opposed to contradicting their clear teaching on Christ’s Second Coming.

Also, if one is to be consistent with a strictly literal interpretation of the 1000 years mentioned in Rev 20, one would have to also believe that there are 7 literal Spirits of God according to Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6, making the Godhead more than three Persons. One would also have to believe that our Lord has 7 literal horns and 7 eyes according to Rev. 5:6. You’d also have to believe there are 7 literal thunders uttering their voices according to Rev. 10:3. Also, you’d have to believe that the "hour of trial” mentioned in Rev. 3:10 is to be understood as 60 literal minutes. Also, you’d have to believe that the woman in Rev. 12 is given 2 literal wings to fly into the wilderness according to Rev. 12:6. And there is so much more symbolism you’d have to interpret literally to be consistent with your method of interpreting that passage in Rev. 20.

I find it very interesting to note that from that one passage in Rev 20 has come this teaching of a literal 1000 year earthly rule of Christ, when the rest of the Word of God contradicts that teaching.

This doctrine will never line up with Romans 11 and many other scriptures,
God has not cast away His people (Israel), and affirms the continuing distinct role that Israel plays in God’s plan for the present and future.

I've heard testimonies of Jews being converted to Christ after being provoked to such holy jealousy by Gentile believers. That was God's plan for His remnant among national Israel. Remember, not all Israel is Israel but God has always had and will always have His remnant. That's one of the main points of Romans 9-11, that God has not completely cast away national Israel because there is still a remnant being saved from among them. That's Paul's answer to the question, "Has God cast away His people?" Paul points to himself as a prime example of the fact that God has not cast away His people-Romans 11:1-2. Paul then mentions the example of Elijah and the 7,000 who did not bow the knee to Baal as another example of God's remnant-Romans 11:3-5.

God's Word makes it clear in Ephesians 2 and 3 and elsewhere that God has broken down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile and has made both one in Christ. God only has one people, not two. Gentiles are now included as the true Israel of God. We are grafted into the Olive Tree and are part of that Tree, not separate from it. We are partakers together of the commonwealth of Israel-Eph 2:11-22. Why should Christians try to separate what God has joined together? Makes no sense imho.

There are so many more scriptures that can be sited.

It was said,

"God's Word makes it clear in Ephesians 2 and 3 and elsewhere that God has broken down the wall of separation between Jew and Gentile and has made both one in Christ. God only has one people, not two. Gentiles are now included as the true Israel of God. We are grafted into the Olive Tree and are part of that Tree, not separate from it. We are partakers together of the commonwealth of Israel-Eph 2:11-22. Why should Christians try to separate what God has joined together? Makes no sense imho."

Thank you Oracio for your thoughts. I'm not dispensational nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Yet I do believe Israel has a future as a redeemed nation - "ALL shall know me from the least to the greatest" (Jer 31:34). This promise from Jeremiah also extended to their offspring (Isa 59:21). God has never been interested in them just as a nation containing a righteous remnant. God's intent all along has been to have a entirely redeemed nation in Christ. I believe also that God has broken down the wall of partition between Jews and Gentiles and Gentiles have been made partakers of the promises and covenants made to the commonwealth if Israel. Yet how does that cancel the still outstanding promises made to the Jewish nation? If Gentiles can now fully particIpate what is the offense of future prophecies regarding Israel as a nation being fulfilled? Part of what was revealed by the gospel was the fact that Christ's coming would be twofold. He would come then leave them then come again to Israel after a final time of tribulation (Deut 4:30, Jer 30:7, Dan 12:1, Matt 24:21, Rev 7:14) If He returns to Israel again and that nation becomes a nation of renown and praise how is that shortchanging other peoples and nations since blessings of never seen magnitude will pour forth from that nation to all the nations? This will be in agreement with the universal scope the prophets always included. Ultimately it's not about just one nation. The Lord won't be establishing a wall of partition again. The Gentiles have had access for almost two thousand years now so how will Gentiles be shortchanged if God saves a Jewish remnant and they are established as a nation under the rule of their returned Messiah? Meanwhile, the church has even been so bold as to propose that when Jewish people come to Christ they are called to give up their Jewishness.

"It is said, 'All are one in Christ Jesus [Gal 3;28], therefore there can be no national distinction of the Jews, no national restoration, no national preeminence"...Some have surely a strange notion of what is meant by being "one in Christ," when they make thier spiritual oneness depend upon the uniformity of external circumstances. What a low idea of Christian oneness! They charge us with carnal views because we insist upon the future distinctivenss of the Jewish nation; but it appears that the charge of carnaltiy belongs to them, not to us! We believe in the literal accomplishment of the prophecies regarding the Jews, in which there appear to be many promises of temporal blessings as well as spiritual; but we lay no further stress upon these than the Word of God lays; we admit spiritual blessings to be the highest and noblest. Our opponents, however, lay such stress upon external circumstances, as to insist, that if these exist the oneness in Christ is gone. We had always understood Scripture as telling us, not that there were no national distinctions, but that, in spite of these, there was a oneness that bound together all believers; a oneness so spiritual, so divine, so unearthly, so unapproachable, as not to be in the very least affected by temporal distinctions of time, place, or rank."

(H. Bonar, "Propohetical Landmarks" (London: James Nisbet, 1876), 231-32.

Quoting,

"Also, if one is to be consistent with a strictly literal interpretation of the 1000 years mentioned in Rev 20, one would have to also believe that there are 7 literal Spirits of God according to Rev 1:4, 3:1, 4:5, and 5:6, making the Godhead more than three Persons. One would also have to believe that our Lord has 7 literal horns and 7 eyes according to Rev. 5:6. You’d also have to believe there are 7 literal thunders uttering their voices according to Rev. 10:3. Also, you’d have to believe that the "hour of trial” mentioned in Rev. 3:10 is to be understood as 60 literal minutes. Also, you’d have to believe that the woman in Rev. 12 is given 2 literal wings to fly into the wilderness according to Rev. 12:6. And there is so much more symbolism you’d have to interpret literally to be consistent with your method of interpreting that passage in Rev. 20."

"I find it very interesting to note that from that one passage in Rev 20 has come this teaching of a literal 1000 year earthly rule of Christ, when the rest of the Word of God contradicts that teaching." (END)

This is not true and is a common caricature often used against those of a pre-millennial view. Pre-millennialiosm alsways has acknowledged the use of symbols and allegories in scripture. What examples can be given of literalists also teaching the Lord has 7 literal horns and 7 eyes? Where has one of a pre-millennial view ever taught that there are 7 Spirits of God? They haven't taught that because thay have always given room for things to be expressed symbolically at certain points in the scripture. They have always believed though that the symbols have concrete and literal meanings. This common caricature is misinformed and therefore doesn't pass the test of being correctly used.

Quoting,

Objection: Premillennialists are not Consistent It is objected that even the premill view takes some prophetic passages symbolically and figuratively, such as the seven "stars” (angels),"lamp stands” (churches), and "beasts” (world powers) in the book of Revelation. If so, why should not "a thousand years” be symbolic of a long period of time and "144,000” from the "twelve tribes of Israel” (Rev. 7, 14) be symbolic of the Church, and so on.

Response: First, figures of speech are not contrary to a literal interpretation since even they are based in a literal meaning. For example, just because there is a "key” (a symbol of secure containment) to the bottomless pit where the Devil is consigned for a thousand years does not mean there is no real Devil. Second, the Book of Revelation identifies many things as symbols, but it gives their literal meaning (cf. Rev. 1:20). Third, all these symbols represent literal people, things, and events. Fourth, the worlds "tribe” and "resurrection are never used figuratively in the Bible. Even symbols have a literal meaning (Rev. 1:20). Fifth, the rule of thumb still stands: "If the literal sense makes good sense, then seek no other sense lest it result in nonsense.” Finally, amillennial interpretations are inconsistent for in the same passage (Rev. 20) they take one "resurrection” literally and the other one spiritually. "They came to life [at first resurrection] and reigned with Christ for a thousand years. The rest of the dead did not come to life [at the second resurrection] until the thousand years were ended.” John goes on to say, "Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power...and they will reign with him for a thousand years.” (Rev. 20:4-7). But if the second resurrection is literal (as amills admit), then so is the first resurrection literal since it is described by the same phrase in the same passage and it is called "the first resurrection” (Rev. 20:5-6).

(Norman Geisler - "The Importance of Premillenialism")

When the disciples asked Jesus how to pray, He gave an answer with which we are almost too familiar. In this prayer, we by extension are commanded to pray that His will be done on earth as it is in Heaven. My perspective on this is that Jesus is actually making a prophetic declaration that will by virtue of its being God's will, the will of God actually will be done in the earth at some future point. Quite obviously we are not yet there.

In Romans 8 Paul gives a vivid description of this, with the incomprehensible notion that the creation will be delivered from its bondage to futility and decay into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

There seems in this to be in all this a single thrust- the whole world subject to the power of God, one salvation message, one savior, one division between men- those of Christ and those not.

I cannot see room for sub-plots and special accommodations for physical jews, but that does not preclude God doing things with nations to illustrate His plans, does it? There just seems to be some mysterious significance to the modern nation of Israel. In light of this discussion, I wonder where this might be going!

The Bible is always symbolic when it does not suit some peoples theological bent. That way you can make up most any doctrine you like using the word of the Lord and twisting it to suit your viewpoint. (Works well for most TV preachers)

docs, I'll try to make time to answer your replies soon.

Docs: "yet I do believe Israel has a future as a redeemed nation."

What do you mean by this statement? More particularly the phrase "redeemed nation?"

Thank you Oracio for your thoughts. I'm not dispensational nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Yet I do believe Israel has a future as a redeemed nation - "ALL shall know me from the least to the greatest" (Jer 31:34). This promise from Jeremiah also extended to their offspring (Isa 21). God has never been interested in them just as a nation containing a righteous remnant. God's intent all along has been to have a entirely redeemed nation in Christ. I believe also that God has broken down the wall of partition between Jews and Gentiles and Gentiles have been made partakers of the promises and covenants made to the commonwealth if Israel. Yet how does that cancel the still outstanding promises made to the Jewish nation? If Gentiles can now fully particIpate what is the offense of future prophecies regarding Israel as a nation being fulfilled? Part of what was revealed by the gospel was the fact that Christ's coming would be twofold. He would come then leave them then come again to Israel after a final time of tribulation (Deut 4:30, Jer 30:7, Dan 12:1, Matt 24:21, Rev 7:14) If He returns to Israel again and that nation becomes a nation of renown and praise how is that shortchanging other peoples and nations since blessings of never seen magnitude will pour forth from that nation to all the nations? This will be in agreement with the universal scope the prophets always included. Ultimately it's not about just one nation. The Lord won't be establishing a wall of partition again. The Gentiles have had access for almost two thousand years now so how will Gentiles be shortchanged if God saves a Jewish remnant and they are established as a nation under the rule of their returned Messiah? Meanwhile, the church has even been so bold as to propose that when Jewish people come to Christ they are called to give up their Jewishness.

"It is said, 'All are one in Christ Jesus [Gal 3;28], therefore there can be no national distinction of the Jews, no national restoration, no national preeminence"...Some have surely a strange notion of what is meant by being "one in Christ," when they make thier spiritual oneness depend upon the uniformity of external circumstances. What a low idea of Christian oneness! They charge us with carnal views because we insist upon the future distinctivenss of the Jewish nation; but it appears that the charge of carnaltiy belongs to them, not to us! We believe in the literal accomplishment of the prophecies regarding the Jews, in which there appear to be many promises of temporal blessings as well as spiritual; but we lay no further stress upon these than the Word of God lays; we admit spiritual blessings to be the highest and noblest. Our opponents, however, lay such stress upon external circumstances, as to insist, that if these exist the oneness in Christ is gone. We had always understood Scripture as telling us, not that there were no national distinctions, but that, in spite of these, there was a oneness that bound together all believers; a oneness so spiritual, so divine, so unearthly, so unapproachable, as not to be in the very least affected by temporal distinctions of time, place, or rank."

Ok docs, here's my first reply and it has to be brief unfortunately due to time constraints at the moment (more coming soon hopefully :).

Thank you docs for your thoughts as well. Regarding the prophecy in Jeremiah 31 which you pointed out, the New Testament makes it abundantly clear that that promise has already been fulfilled in Jesus Christ and the New Covenant He established through His blood. This is stated twice in Hebrews, first in Heb. 8:7-13 and then in Heb. 10:16-17. All the promises made to Israel in the Old Covenant are fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His New Covenant. The New Testament makes so many references to that extent. Just the book of Hebrews alone should be sufficient to prove this, with its numerous references to old covenant promises finding their fulfillment in Christ and His New Covenant (yet this is not limited to the book of Hebrews but is seen throughout the New Testament).

The offense is simply that I don't see this distinction between Jew and Gentile holding any water according to the New Testament. It's simply not there. The clear and plain, literal reading of those passages in the NT that teach a unity between Jew and Gentile does not allow that kind of view. So in this case my question is, who really are the ones not taking the Word literally?

Pre-millennialiosm alsways has acknowledged the use of symbols and allegories in scripture. What examples can be given of literalists also teaching the Lord has 7 literal horns and 7 eyes? Where has one of a pre-millennial view ever taught that there are 7 Spirits of God? They haven't taught that because thay have always given room for things to be expressed symbolically at certain points in the scripture.

Just as all those other numbers are clearly symbolic, isn’t there at least a chance that the 1000 yrs are also symbolic of something? Our contention is that the evidence points in that direction as we compare scripture with scripture as opposed to taking a small section out of context with no consideration for the whole counsel of God’s Word. The method of the analogy of faith in biblical interpretation says that it is safer to interpret unclear passages in light of clearer ones, not vice versa. Yet in the Premill view that principle is completely disregarded and this spin is placed on the 1000 yrs that is unwarranted when compared to other clearer portions of Scripture.

It seems Premills allow symbolic meaning in Revelation only when convenient for their views.

They have always believed though that the symbols have concrete and literal meanings. This common caricature is misinformed and therefore doesn't pass the test of being correctly used.

I will post here a portion from the OP article which shows the scriptural basis for the current rule of Christ from heaven, as a reminder:

"My one desire therefore in setting forth these truths is to magnify my risen, exalted Lord Jesus Christ who sits upon His throne in heaven now, ruling over His people and over all of the inhabitants of this earth. "All power [all authority] is given unto me [Christ] in heaven and in earth" (Mat 28:18). "Who is gone into heaven, and is on the right hand of God; angels and authorities and powers being made subject unto him" (1Pe 3:22). For God has set Christ "at his own right hand in the heavenly places, far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come: and hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all" (Eph 1:20-23). We will seek to show from God's Word that our Lord Jesus Christ is now King of kings and Lord of lords and that He already sits upon David's throne in the heavenlies."

To some degree, Replacement theology is so deceptive because it rests on half-truths. For instance, the Church is the "Israel of God” but not in a replacement sense (Galatians 6:14-16).

That statement doesn’t make sense to me. If the Church is the Israel of God, that’s it, done deal, period! There’s no, "Not in a replacement sense.”

In essence, Replacement theology removes from Israel a national destiny in the land of Canaan because of her rejection of Jesus’ Messianic credentials. All the biblical statements of Israel enjoying future blessings in the land of Canaan are said to be descriptions of the spiritual blessings that now accrue to the Church. The expectation of a physical kingdom has been spiritualized and taken from Israel and given to the Gentiles (Matthew 21:43), even though Jesus never denied that the physical kingdom would be restored to Israel (Acts 1:6-7).

Our contention is that the promises of the land of Canaan are ultimately fulfilled in Christ and finally in the new heavens and new earth, not in a carnal temporary earthly kingdom. That’s the land of Canaan we are to look forward to ultimately. Right now we enjoy the spiritual rest that comes with being in Christ; after death we enjoy the rest of the intermediate state in the presence of God; then finally we will enjoy the eternal rest promised to God's people in the new heavens and new earth, and what a glorious rest it will be!

Again, we do not look forward to an earthly temporary kingdom where there will still be sin and death, and where there will be resurrected saints with glorified bodies living on the same planet with people in earthly bodies. No, when Jesus comes back it’s a wrap. That's what we understand to be the New Testament teaching on Christ's second coming.

I'm busy as of now and might be a bit getting back to you. It might even be tomorrow. That also gives me time to think upon things without offering up hasty replies. Please bear in mind I am not dispensational nor do I believe in a pre-tribulation rapture. Nor do I believe there are two separate peoples of God, one the church and one Israel. The two peoples is as serious a error to me as any error ever proposed. I pledge my civility for whatever amount I am involved.

Thank you.