Dont believe the lie

It must break the heart of Jesus to see how the church today regards His Coming, many today have this idea that Jesus said "lets all be nice to each other and it does not matter whether we are pre, mid, post or anything else” lets all just be nice and it will all work out in the end, but how far from the truth is this.
When the Disciples asked Jesus this question as to when He was Coming look at what Jesus first words were.

Take heed that no man deceive you.
For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.
Jesus first words were do not be deceived, it is very easy to understand what Jesus was seeing as we see it happening today.
JESUS SAID DO NOT BE DECIEVED, that means don't believe the lies of men.
Massive deception, Jesus said to not listen to the deception of men.
There are many today that believe in the Lie and Deception that the Rapture is happening this year, oh what a Lie.
Why is it that men will believe a lie instead of the words that came out of the mouth of Jesus?
Jesus told us when He is Coming.
Look at what Jesus states which is the Truth with no deception
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Jesus could not make it any clearer, He is Coming after the Tribulation has ended and after the signs in the sky after the Tribulation.
Dont believe the lies of false prophets and false anointed
Jesus is the Truth
You wont find any verse that says He is Coming before the Tribulation, no not one.
Jesus said that no one knows the day or hour of His Coming after the Tribulation but we will know the signs and when we see those signs then look up as he is at the door then.
Jesus has Prophesied when He will Come and He will Come just as He prophesied, Do not believe all of the lies and deception that are tickling peoples ears
DONT BELIEVE THE LIES BELIEVE THE WORDS OF JESUS
Mat_24:33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS NOT SOME, NOT ONE, ALL
JESUS WILL NOT BE COMING THIS YEAR, YOU WILL SEE.

I would encourage every believer worldwide to purchase a new book by Joel Richardson called When a Jew Rules the World.
It will both challenge and humble the reader

Every Gentile believer should meditate on Romans 11 and see that we were grafted into the Olive Tree and it supports us
we do not support it.
Jesus is the Root of the Olive Tree, Jesus is the Root of Israel, Jesus is the Root of the Commonwealth of Israel that we have been grafted into. Jesus is the Root of Jew and Gentile.

Oh God please have Mercy on us for our Arrogance and Pride and for what abomination we have done.
Please forgive us so that we may not also be cut off of the tree, please have mercy on us and Israel the apple of your eye.
Jew and Gentile in Christ.

Your thread needs to titled, "When a Jew Rules the World" by Joel Richardson! More people would read it.

I listened to the author on youtube and I will be purchasing the book.

Here is the book on amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/When-Jew-Rules-World-Really/dp/1938067711/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427289242&sr=8-1&keywords=Joel+Richardson+When+a+Jew+Rules+the+World

Here is a short take on what he said in one of his interviews:

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Once you articulate that God is done with Israel, in fact that it was the will of God that that nation was permanently dispersed, it’s natural for Christians then begin to attempt to carry out what they believe to be the will of God. So throughout history, you’ve had Christians that were persecuting, killing, running Jews out of Europe.

As I’m sitting there in Iraq, looking at these Muslims and Christian refugees, living in the mud, I’m thinking to myself 400 years ago these refugees were Jews and instead of ISIS, it was the Christian church.

And when we embrace this idea that God has purposely dissolved the people of Israel then it naturally leads to the effort among Christians to participate in dissolving them as a people.

I’m convinced... that every seminary across the nation, across the world, should have a mandatory class where they teach Christians the long, bloody, painful, gruesome history of Christians persecuting, hating, killing and massacring the Jewish people. I believe that if seminarians were taken through that class, replacement theology, super-secessionism would radically be diminished, in fact there’d be very few that would embrace it.

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I have no dog in this fight, because I could really care less one way or the other, but:

1) people who teach a pre-trib rapture are not false prophets or liars solely on that basis. They may be mistaken ( believe they are, but I don't believe in a post-trib or mid-trib rapture either) but that does not make them false prophets or liars.

2) A person who teaches that the Church has "replaced" Israel is not a liar or false prophet on that basis. They may be mistaken (I am on the fence on this issue) but that does not make them false prophets or liars.

False prophets and liars teach something as true THEY KNOW to be false. Big difference.

I have to agree with Todd. This is not a foundational issue. The second coming of Christ is nonnegotiable. It is a foundational doctrine. If you deviate from this teaching you deviate from Christianity. What the second coming looks like or how or when it takes place is up for debate. I have been taught a pre trib rapture my whole life. It is only very recently that I have even heard other point of views. Now I think I may not agree. But just because I do not agree doesn't mean my pastors and everyone who believes pre trib are false teachers. I like the saying in the essentials unity, non essentials liberty, and in all things charity!

What interested me, not so much in budgies response (sorry budgie!), but what the author of 'When a Jew Rules the World' said in one of his interviews. Replacement theology's logical end very well could be a branch of Christianity actively seeking Israel's demise.

I was raised in the church to believe a pre-trib rapture and also a form of replacement theology but not to the place of actively seeking to hate Israel. It wasn’t until I moved away from that particular church, got a computer and began searching and actively studying the different viewpoints of the end times that I began to move away from pre-trib. FYI: I didn't start out to prove pre-trib wrong, I was just excited to find other view points on the subject.

The only thing I’ll say about false prophets and teachers in this area is that the major machine of Christian TV supports pre-trib and actively squashes another other view. I, too, believe the second coming of Christ is non-negotiable but not the pre-trib view!

So are these people who are in control of what the rolls down to the church... are they intentionally liars? Maybe, maybe not; but they ARE intentionally squashing the average Christian being educated in this area and choosing for themselves. But then the scripture comes to mind, "We wrestle not against flesh and blood but against principalities and powers in high places.” Just thinking out loud in the wee hours of the morning!!

God bless you all,
Lisa

Lisa-

I agree with you. I honestly believe that there are mainstream Christian leaders who will not change their view publicly on certain topics (despite possibly an internal honest sense that they may be wrong) because their ministry is so entrenched, etc.

For example (and this is ONLY an example) what if Joel Rosenberg listened to a teaching regarding replacement theology and he began to feel that perhaps he was wrong. It would be exceedingly difficult for him to publicly indicate he was having misgivings about this issue.

The same could be said if John Piper began having misgivings about Calvinism or John MacArthur began having serious misgivings about his cessationism, or David Jeremiah on pre-trib rapture. It would be very difficult for them, at this point to come out publicly about their misgivings because because much of their ministries have been pushing or defending these doctrinal points.

That is why the Bible teachers I like best are those that lay all the views out there for consideration(at least when it comes to non-essentials). They may state why they believe a certain view is correct according to the scriptures, but in non-essentials are not dogmatic.

I also wanted to clarify my point regarding the rapture.

I believe the only rapture will occur at the 2nd coming. I do not believe in two rapture events. So this rapture is relatively short lived.

Hello TMK
It is a sad reality today that there are so many varying theories and doctrines within the Body Of Christ and these only cause divisions rather than Unity, Paul was one that brought correction to the Body so that right doctrine would unify, there can only be one Truth, it is vital for us all to humble ourselves to the Word of God and not to the Theories of man, this includes myself.
If pride or the fear of loss of reputation is stopping one from turning from false teaching to Truth then we are the same as the Pharisees, we are white washed tombs.
There can only be one Truth to the Return of Christ, I do believe the more we listen and believe exactly what Jesus states the more we will be in Truth.
Jesus told us what will happen before He Comes and He even told us to learn the Parable regarding those signs so that we may know when to look up and lift our heads and when our Redemption is drawing near.
Jesus whole focus in Matthew 24 and 25 was on His literal and physical coming to this earth to establish His Kingdom as prophesied.
Jesus spoke of it as a literal and singular event.
May we walk each day in Christ because we do not know when our life will end, and may we walk in Christ as the Day of His Coming draws near so that we may lead and guide others in Truth not deception.
Those that teach are accountable for the sheep.

Budgie...

"WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS NOT SOME, NOT ONE, ALL
JESUS WILL NOT BE COMING THIS YEAR, YOU WILL SEE."

Are you saying Jesus is coming this year? It's at the end of the original post.Just wanted you to clarify.

"WHEN YOU SEE ALL THESE THINGS NOT SOME, NOT ONE, ALL
JESUS WILL NOT BE COMING THIS YEAR, YOU WILL SEE."

Are you saying that Jesus is coming back this year?

Hi LoveMeekHope,
I agree wholeheartedly with your comments.Although I dont agree with a Post Trib view I dont think at all that they are liars or that they are false Prophets because of their belief.
They are brothers and sisters in Christ.I think where part of the problem is that genuine "FALSE PROPHETS"(for the want of a better term) tend to preach a pre trib doctrine.That doesnt mean that the doctrine is valid or invalid.
It just means it muddies up the water in the sense that if the false prophet preaches pre trib it must be wrong kind of thing.

I do say however that our end time belief whatever it maybe has an effect on our church doctrinal view.If I believe in pre trib I may have a tendency to "once saved always saved" and if I have a post trib believer I may have a tendency towards believing "I can loose my salvation"
If I believe in post trib I may have a tendency towards believing in "presecution presecution doctrine" and if I have a pre trib view I may have a tendency to "no hardships at all God wants us to be millionaires doctrine"
Yours Staff

I agree. I believe in all of them.
I believe the word of God.

1. Rev. "Come up hither" I believe when John is called up at the end of chapter 3, it is the pre-trib rapture, the rapture of the Church.
2. Mid trib when the 144,00 Jewish evangelist are taken. I believe this is the last group rapture.
3. When the two witnesses are taken up in Chapter 11 and the saints of God follow Jesus back to the earth.

These three raptures are well documented in the book of Revelations. They are prophecy, but described.

I am interested to know the origin of the "John, come up hither" equals "rapture of the church" teaching. It is one reason -- of quite a few -- I actually rejected the pre-trib position: no one could adequately expose from Scripture why these two things are equated.

Said in love, but loving skepticism.

Corrie ten Boom on those preaching a pre-tribulation rapture -

"There are some among us teaching there will be no tribulation, that the Christians will be able to escape all this. These are the false teachers that Jesus was warning us to expect in the latter days. Most of them have little knowledge of what is already going on across the world. I have been in countries where the saints are already suffering terrible persecution . . . .

Hi StevenHale,
You know everytime their is a conversation on this subject some one brings up Corrie Ten Boom's beliefs on the tribulation.
Although she is a great christian example her belief's are experiential doctrine and based totally on what she was going through not on the bible.Her belief may however be correct although I dont hold to it but her view is based on her experiences not on the bible.
Many followers of God suffered Persecution which led to death in the bible and many did not,so to base our Tribulation view on what is going on around at a particular time in history is not proper exegesis.
For Instance Billy Graham preached successfully for decades, did not die physically for his faith in Christ or was not persecuted in the way Corrie Ten Boom was so can I say on the basis of Billy Grahams experiences that their will be no persecution or that we will not go through the great tribulation.NO I CANT and in the same way I cant base my view of the tribulation on Corrie Ten Booms Experiences and say we will go through the tribulation
The Corrie Ten Boom arguement is a red herring in the debate and sheds no light on the subject in my opinion,
Yours Staff

Hi
Again the arguement that a doctrine is only a few hundred years old
is not proper exegesis.it is t he word that has to be consulted.Pre tribbers will argue that its only a few hundred yrs old is only an old wives tale.Also the closer we get to the end the more will be revealed(in line with scripture)to advise and encourage us.
After all until Peters vision the body was unclear whether the gentiles were unclean or clean.Their will be aspects of Jesus coming that we will know more about than the infant church in judea,
yours staff

markuskiwi wrote:
I would also briefly like to make some comments about the second post: "When a Jew Rules the World".
This troubles me a bit. Yes Jesus the Messiah is the son of David etc. BUT afterwards "God elevated him to the place of highest honor and gave him the name above all other names " (Phil 2:9, NLT) He will be King of Kings and Lord of Lords, the Lamb who was slain, etc. In His Kingdom there is neither Jew nor Greek, ... for we are all one in Christ Jesus. He should not be compared anymore with the old system, He deserves the highest honor!
"No one compares to You, my King
No one compare to You, my Lord
No one compare to You, my Friend"

It could be about more but that is my simplistic take on it, if I'm wrong, someone please correct me!!

And also, I used to be an ardent post-tribber but it does seem that Jesus has already come "for" a few million Christians and they are just lying in wait for the Resurrection!! Only difference is I am alive for the moment awaiting His Resurrection!! thank you Jesus!!

God bless,
Lisa