Healing - who 'gets' it?

Geraldine's and Spitfire's several questions have brought this topic to mind. I hope we will look very carefully into scripture to see 'where' 'when' and 'who' Jesus healed (as well as 'how') and compare this with our experience.For many years the preaching I heard did not address my need for inner healing, with a clarity which I could recognise through the fog of continual strivings to 'arrive' at a place of peace, where I could honestly say I knew God had given me what I believed could be received from Him (by way of salvation). I did not know what was missing, I just knew I did not have it! It was terrifying to begin to acknowledge the undeniable persistence of this indefinable issue to myself only. There were good reasons for this fear and partly, that is my point. Retrospectively, I can take full responsibility for my part in my deafness, but remain confident there are many more like me out there! I would like preachers to take greater responsibility for covering this aspect of gospel ground more thoroughly. Is that fair?Having eventually received many layers of healing over time, I am more convinced of its importance to the church, but, I have also heard of an evangelist who does not 'believe in' healing. I see this is as a reason some people don't enter the Kingdom more easily; then, they are branded - lovingly? - as 'sinners' 'disobedient' 'apathetic' or 'weak'. Subsequently, when those seriously in need have not had the life-changing experience they were promised, they rightly sense they have nothing to report despite putting their faith in Jesus for forgiveness of sin(s) and believing for eternal life. And then, those outside the church have even less chance of 'hearing' words which will connect them to a meaningful salvation.The effect of failing to make healing an area of expertise within the church is one reason church members seem to go hot and cold, show promise and enthusiasm - then run out of steam, lack motivation and find excuses not to serve. It cannot all be put down to pure selfishness or lack of vision. There are good spiritual reasons to get a handle on.Precisely because this could be an emotive discussion it's in the Lounge where I hope we can keep a relaxed and compassionate perspective on the issues which may arise if we are honest. I do want this to stir us up to greater faith and understanding. :)I found this useful extract on the internet...In both Hebrew and English, the word ‘healing’ is related to the word ‘whole’. In Greek, the word sozo means both to save and to heal.God identified himself to us from the beginning as a God who heals (Exodus 15.26). The healing he offers is a comprehensive one which eventually will touch spirit, soul and body (1 Thessalonians 5.23). To know God is to receive life, abundant life, spiritual life which may, even in this world of death, prove itself in the healing of both emotional and physical pain (John 10.37-38). That is a message which is of profound interest to the many people both inside and outside the church who are looking for a faith that works. Healing is both metaphor and reality, and it is not intended as an ‘in-house perk’ for Christians – it is a fundamental expression of the gospel itself.Back to the drawing boardIf healing and evangelism are to be regarded together as ways of offering the wholeness which God wishes to bring us, what implications does that carry for our own practice?..For the complete article: http://www.alisonmorgan.co.uk/Healing%20and%20evangelism.htm QuestionsHow much is it the responsibility of the individual believer to lay hold of the healing they need, from God Himself, after believing the gospel and, how much is it the responsiblity of the evangelist to declare and minister this truth to the uncommitted heart? Is there any scriptural reason we should require commitment from comers-to-Jesus-for-healing before they have received healing?

I appreciate your post, Dian, as you raise several valid points. The amount that you did address my question was a good start to the thread. Thank you. The beautiful thing is, we don't deserve healing or wholeness, but God has promised it to those who love him. In this, you suggest we must love God in order to receive from Him. Of course, if we love Him, we will receive from Him but part of my question is, can healing be offered to those who do not love Him yet? If so, should we be offering it as a function of evangelism?

OK. You're forcing me out into the open, here! :-) This is a verse which greatly comforted me when I was trying to make sense of my condition.Proverbs 18:14 The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear? Again you raise a fair point for further discussion - whether mental, emotional and psychological health is 'earthly' and therefore dispensable under the good of abandonment to the Spirit?In other words, I don't present the good news of the gospel with the addendum of anything earthly. I may still be off in trying to follow you here, Sis.Maybe what I am trying to say is, I believe we will be made whole, but it will happen through abandonment. If the Son has set you free, you shall be free indeed! To elaborate my question further, how do we deal with the brokenness of those who have been sinned against? Sure, the 'salvation' aspect of the gospel deals with their sinfulness but how do they (we) get the 'healing' aspect which deals with the 'sinned-against' portion of their (our) 'spiritual' need? Surely this is the more obvious healing which Jesus ministered to crowds of individuals? Only at a spiritual level are we 'healed' from our propensity to sin; this has to be worked out faithfully in our 'earthly' life, day after day, for it to appear.Romans 8:11 and if the Spirit of Him who did raise up Jesus out of the dead doth dwell in you, He who did raise up the Christ out of the dead shall quicken also your dying bodies, through His Spirit dwelling in you. What do we experience of being raised in Christ to walk in newness of life?Psalm 22:14 As waters I have been poured out, And separated themselves have all my bones, My heart hath been like wax, It is melted in the midst of my bowels. 15 Dried up as an earthen vessel is my power, And my tongue is cleaving to my jaws. 16 And to the dust of death thou appointest me, For surrounded me have dogs, A company of evil doers have compassed me, What kind of resurrection do we proclaim?

dohzman, Yes! Yes! Yes! :-D I am deeply encouraged. This is like the 'no pressure' ministry Jesus had and which He sent is disciples to do.In life when I'm where ever if I see someone depressed or lame, blind sick ect... I normally ingage them in conversation and let them know I'm simpathic toward thier condition.Also, I am challenged by your compassion. I tell them about the Awesome power of Jesus Christ and ask them if they'd mind if I prayed for them. Normally I pray for them on the spot. My prayers are always for the need and secondly I ask God to reveal Himself to them through Jesus Christ.I am genuinely excited to find one other person whose experience is similar, although mine is much less random - which is entirely my fault.All in all , the whole areana of healing is still pretty much a mystery to me even though I preach it , teach it and practice it as lead by the Holy Spirit in ministering to others. Matt 12:20 A bruised reed shall he not break......Jesus is soooo gentle with our bruises.One of the things I hope this thread will discuss is definitions of 'bruises' and how ok it is for Christians to take time to get them fixed. It is I feel sure, but we are reluctant. Sometimes, there seems to be confusion between this and 'suffering' for the Lord.

First of all, I've noticed that 10 out of 10 people die. Some die healthy, others die full of disease. Some die young, some die old. I know there have been some who went straight to heaven on crutches or in a wheel chair, while others went straitght to hell in bodies the world would drool over. So healing of the physical body has nothing to do with salvation.The missing link is this. Jesus said that He did not say or do anything, unless the Father first told Him or showed Him. When He went about healing, He was sent by the Father. He did not go out on His own, or by "faith". He went in obedience after spending time alone with the Father. So what makes us think we can do differently? Why is it that we think we can just "pray the prayer of faith", and God should be forced into a place of supernatural submission? Please consider the man at the temple gate in the book of Acts. When Peter and John passed by, he cried out to them. Don't you think that if he had been there for "years" that Jesus had also passed him by many times? Why was he not healed by the Master? Was it his lack of faith? How cruel is that? God's ways are above our ways. His understanding and wisdom are far above our own. Why is it we think we have to "figure it all out" and understand in order to be effective in His kingdom. Why not just go to God day by day and ask Him to lead us and guide us. If He sends us to pray for the sick, you can rest assured that they will recover. But if He has not sent us, then all the prayer in the world will not raise them up.Jesus was summoned to the tomb of Lazarus. I'm certain He wanted to leave right away. But the Father made Him wait. He had to wait for the freedom to do what God had promised, even though it was good and He had faith. Obedience unto God is key and paramount to effective ministry. Remember it is the Holy Spirit who gives severally as He wills, not as we will. Yes it is so noble to pray for the sick. But we must remember, that if we have not heard from the Father, we are acting on presumption. That is where people get hurt and discouraged. They are told they didn't have enough faith. How cruel is that? A spirit that is whole and healthy will produce a body that is in better state of health than a person who is a sinner. Personal relationship with God will bring inner peace, regardless of the condition of the physical body. Guilt, despair, and sin will bring stress that taxes the body and shortens its life span, generally speaking. Do I believe in healing? Absolutely. But I know that my God is more interested in the health of my spirit than my physical body. If my spirit is saved and in fellowship with Him, by the blood of Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, then all is well. If not, nothing is right. Don't we far too often place too much emphasis on physical healing rather than spiritual salvation? I think we do. I was in this church for a time and was part of the praise team. The pastor would often ask people to call out their prayer needs. Since the majority of the congregation was in their later years, 99% of the requests were for physical healing. Was there no need for spiritual wholeness by faith in Jesus Christ and Him crucified? I can tell you of a certainty there was, yet it was hardly ever requested of God. How do I know? All I had to do is look at their faces. Why? I didn't see anyone who looked like they had been in His presence. How can you tell if someone has been in His presence? Because in His presence there is fullness of joy. There was no joy on their faces.Oh the sin that soaks the church in this hour. Yet the cry is for the physical, ignoring the sin that produced it's ailment in the first place. We look upon the outward parts, but God looks upon the heart.A few years ago, I met a believer who had a couple years prior been shot through the neck. The wound made him talk in a raspy voice. It also made it very difficult for him to walk, even with a walker. He was blinded in one eye. His wife and children left him. He had nowhere to turn, but to God. I asked him if he had not been shot, did he think he would be saved today? His reply, "absolutely not!"Seek ye first the kingdom of God, and His righteousness, and then all these things shall be added unto you. If God sends you to touch a sin soaked heart, and physical healing will aid the process, you can rest assured, the Holy Spirit will supply all you need to convince this person that God is after them with mercy, grace, and love. If God does not send you, you are wasting your time and not representing the kingdom of God. Your ministry is not valid when it is based on presumption. Be led by the Spirit of God and you will not fulfill the desires of the flesh. There is nothing wrong with sympathy and kindness of spirit. But we dare not presume that these good feelings toward others is all that is necessary to get wholeness completed in their lives. God must direct all we say and do, or we labor in vain.

God must direct all we say and do, or we labor in vain.Lahry, yes! I think dohzman said the same. I preach it , teach it and practice it as lead by the Holy Spirit in ministering to othersMark 3: 20 And the multitude cometh together again, so that they could not so much as eat bread. 21 And when his friends heard [of it], they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself. Matthew 4:23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people. 24 And his fame went throughout all Syria: and they brought unto him all sick people that were taken with divers diseases and torments, and those which were possessed with devils, and those which were lunatick, and those that had the palsy; and he healed them.2 Timothy 1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind. My earlier questions are around what this meant in Jesus's practice, as an example of what our own might be, (in the kinds of healing we expect) not only for others, but also for ourselves, when perhaps it becomes less a matter of being led by the Spirit and more a matter of allowing Him access to our pain.

DougieB,I love your post here. It is exactly my point, in certain circumstances. Once a person has been healed they believe! Hallelujah!There is more to discuss about faith, though.What you describe about feeling led to pray for healing sometimes, is exactly what happens to me. However, I do not 'think' of it as being 'my' faith which will heal the person; I think of it as being God's faith. I will qualify that statement in two ways. The first goes back to when I was coming to the Lord as a teenager. Long story, but 'faith' was a problem to me. In the end, in desperation, I asked God to 'give' me a 'gift' of faith. He did, but, I ever thought of it as His faith rather than mine. Then, there is this verse, which I heard preached as 'Hold the faithfulness of God': Mark 11:22 And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. The word 'faith' appears only once in the Old Testament. All the other times, it is 'faithfulness' - a very rounded and robust declamation of this aspect of God's nature. It is comfortingly strong!There are also several references to the faith of Christ. To me, the most striking is in John 10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again. 18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.Here I see that Jesus, (as Lahry was saying about the need for a specific word regarding anything we do in Jesus Name), also needing that word from His Father, regarding His forthcoming death and resurrection. This too, is another comforting glimpse of how God works with men.Galatians 2:16 and Philippians 3:9 refer to 'the faith of Christ' which superceded faith in the Law, and if you look for them, there are other allusions, which, if you unpick the grammar, cannot but be Christ's rather than my faith. Therefore, when asking the Lord to heal someone, I believe I am calling on His faith in His word through me to the other person, to make healing good. This might sound complicated, but it actually simplifies the transaction, as I am not asking them to 'believe' in their own strength, or to trust in my faith, but to trust in God's faith in His own word. The other thing to be said is that unless the person is quickened by God's word which one has spoken to them, the timing for prayer may be wrong. In fact, 'faith' (the substance of things hoped for) springs up directly in response to hearing a specific word from God. Remaining within these limits is not just safe, it is necessary. I would hesitate to claim either a gift of faith or a gift of healing, but I am open to be used in this ministry, as the Lord guides. Now, experience encourages 'my faith' in 'His faith' in His word which creates faith in me.This brings us straight back to the non-Christian who was healed in body first. Experience encouraged his faith in God's creative word that he could be saved.

dann - a BIG AMEN! That is a wonderful testimony to wasting no time in being obedient!

Faith must always have an object. We place our faith in....whatever. Some have faith in their own faith, sad, but true. The faith of the saint is to be placed squarely upon the finished work of Jesus Christ our Lord at Calvary. If the cross don't provide it, it ain't gonna happen. His work and His victory were total and complete. Is there healing in it. Of course there is, by His stripes we are healed. God loves to heal. God does not like to be manipulated by scripture taken out of context or used for selfish glory. I love the story of the Israelites in the dessert, when because of unbelief, God sent snakes among them. But He also provided a deliverence, the pole with the two snakes on it, you know like the doctors of today use. If bitten, all they had to do was to look at the pole, and they were healed from the snake bite. Now I'm not recommending you get a pole with snakes on it. What I am recommending is that we look to Jesus, our redeemer and trust in His love and mercy, His grace and lovingkindness. If we are healed, thanks be to God. If not, thanks be to God. Our faith in God heals the body and heals the spirit. God has one purpose in mind, basically, and that is to keep us totally dependent on Him. If a person is healed of a particular infirmity, perhaps they would get off in the flesh and forget about God. God would rather see them press on in their infirmity and to jump and shout over healing and then take off alone on their own. It's simple, yet ever so complex. Just trust God for everything, and in all things give thanks and praise. If God loves us enough to send His only Son to die in our place, don't you think He loves us enough to take care of all our other trivialities? I do too. So let's just lay it all down at His feet. Yes, ask Him for healing, yours and others. He may stir you heart or give you a special anointing. It may be temporary or last a life time. It's all God business. We provide faith, faith in God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit. Nothing shall seperate us from His love, for we are saved to the uttermost.

LahryYou made many interesting comments on my post about faith. I'm a little sorry if it cuts across your way of explaining yours, but what I said is my testimony of how God dealt with me. It was a very big deal to me, for Him to give me the faith I lacked, so I could enter into a relationship with Him.Perhaps that enables me to see 'faith' as separate from myself and my abilities, in a way with which those whose powers of trust have not been damaged, don't need help.If you read the beginning of the thread, you'll see I am also interested in those intangible healings of the mind, psyche (soul) and emotions, which do not function normally in some and very badly in others. To me, this is a very valid part of the gospel for those who need it to impact upon their lives.I heard, recently, a testimony from a mother of three who used to be angry all the time and I mean, angry all the time. Her family members avoided her as much as possible. But, being from a Christian family herself, she was persuaded to an Alpha course, where she was challenged to believe. After taking the plunge into personal faith in Christ, she stopped being angry immediately. She was so un-angry she was incredulous. For two whole days, nothing she or anyone did, could make her angry. She was so transformed that her children and husband came to faith and within a year of her conversion she was being trained locally for evangelism and youth work. That's progress.I checked up on Moses (Numbers 21:7 - 9) and I think you'll find there was only one snake on the pole. It figures with Eden and John 3, I think. You mentionedby His stripes we are healedand I am still thinking about this. Not only is it an Old Testament prophecy, but, it implies the work on the cross is separate. Please don't ask me to explain further. I've been thinking about this for a long time. I'm acknowledging it as important because when scripture uses two completely separate and distinct ways to make a statement, there is usually more going on at a spiritual level, than meets the eye.If we are healed, thanks be to God. If not, thanks be to God. Our faith in God heals the body and heals the spirit. I notice you don't mention the soul at all. Was than an oversight? And are you saying here that if we are not healed, it is because our faith is defficient? Isn't this a very good reason to depend on the faith of Christ?God has one purpose in mind, basically, and that is to keep us totally dependent on Him. I can't see any reason in scripture for Him to not heal, in order to obtain our greater dependency.Just trust God for everything, and in all things give thanks and praise. If God loves us enough to send His only Son to die in our place, don't you think He loves us enough to take care of all our other trivialities?Again, are you suggesting that a need for healing is a triviality? I'm just trying to understand what you're saying here, following 'Just trust God for everything' as, if I'm trusting God for healing, I don't think either He or I consider it a triviality, since Jesus took a near-death beating to obtain it for me. Again, I'm not wishing to be harsh with your opinion, I'm hoping we will end up on the same page, by the grace of God.I do too. So let's just lay it all down at His feet. Yes, ask Him for healing, yours and others. He may stir you heart or give you a special anointing. It may be temporary or last a life time. It's all God business. We provide faith, (emphasis mine) faith in God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit.Although I have come to think of my testimony as 'my' gospel I don't think I'll ever be able to depend on 'my' faith as something which I can provide so that God can use me - if that's what you mean. At least, so far, I would consider 'my faith' as the weakest link! :-( I will look for a few more scriptures on 'the faith of Christ', to share more of that in a future post.

DougieB - another BIG AMEN! Thanks for your exhortations! :-)

dohzman, any possibility you could expound a bit more on the connections between love, faith and conscience, especially with some scripture?Gal's says faith worketh by love, and we know that love has to do with our conscience toward God. That's why Jesus said that in the end time the love of many would wax cold, and when He returns will he find faith on the earth? In the Book of Hebrews we see the blood of Jesus used to purge our conscience..... John's epistles talk about prayer with a clear conscience and the results of that kind of prayer. My instant response is that an un-clear conscience undermines faith, not because we have none, but because guilt is such a deadener. It leaves us depressed and feeling far from God; also far from being in a position to bring God nigh to anyone, let alone an unbeliever.On 'love', again, is this an 'emotion', a 'gift' or is it a 'quality of attitude'? I have found I can do what is right without 'feeling' anything - not a flicker of warmth towards the person receiving. It's weird and it's not satisfactory. However, I attribute the leading to a course of action as from the Spirit, the power to obey God, as being entirely from Him and the authority to pray in His Name, again, as being entirely from Him. Do I sound like an emotional cripple? Probably. Some of us need healing to touch these kinda parts of our lives, though; to diminish the hope that we may one day be more whole in this area of human 'being', is unwelcome. Having said this, I do have 'love', though I have difficulty discerning it. (The Lord once revealed Himself to me as pure Compassion, or perhaps I would be as hard as nails.)So while faith is important it's not the foundation from which miracles and healing flow, but it is one of the elements.Please also say more about this from scripture and in the light of DougieB's post, if you can?Thanks to all who are replying here.