Is approval of homosexual behavior the great falling away?

Many churches and pastors have affirmed homosexual behavior. This is not new among "liberal churches", but these positions are increasingly adopted by self-professing "Christians" in the evangelical community.

Is this the great falling away, as mentioned in 2 Thessalonians 2? If not, what could that possibly allude to?

"Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you, not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come. Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God." (2 Thess 2:1-4, NKJV)

Brother, I believe the greatest falling away is still to come and that these early christian writings describe in detail what we can expect:

Ӣ "Now concerning...our being gathered together to Him...that day will not come, unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed.." (2 Thessalonians 2:1,3) [edited for choice of Bible translation]

Ӣ "Now concerning the tribulation of the persecution which is to fall upon the Church from the adversary..the tyrant is to reign and persecute the Church.." (Hippolytus)

”¢ "..that the beast Antichrist with his false prophet may wage war on the Church of God.” (Tertullian)

”¢ "God will allow persecution from the Antichrist not because He cannot stop it, but because He desires, as usual, His strugglers to be crowned....the reverent ones among the living will be taken up into the clouds, receiving, as a reward of honor, that which is higher than any man.” (Cyril of Jerusalem)

Ӣ "the kingdom of Antichrist shall fiercely, though for a short time, assail the Church" (Augustine)

Ӣ "He shall harass the world with an intolerable rule; shall mingle things divine and human; shall contrive things impious to relate, and detestable" (Lactantius)

Ӣ "And there is therefore in this beast, when he comes, a recapitulation made of all sorts of iniquity and of every deceit, in order that all apostate power, flowing into and being shut up in him, may be sent into the furnace of fire...since he sums up in his own person all the commixture of wickedness which took place previous to the deluge, due to the apostasy of the angels." (Irenaeus)

Ӣ "He shall sit in the Temple of God as if he were Christ, and leading astray those who worship him." ( Irenaeus)

”¢ "Nor let any one wonder that we are harassed with increasing afflictions, when the Lord before predicted that these things would happen in the last times, Nor let any one of you, beloved brethren, be so terrified by the fear of future persecution, or the coming of the threatening Antichrist, as not to be found armed for all things by the evangelical exhortations and precepts, and by the heavenly warnings. Antichrist is coming… but immediately the Lord follows to avenge our sufferings and our wounds. (Cyprian)

Ӣ "then shall appear the world-deceiver as Son of God, and shall do signs and wonders, and the earth shall be delivered into his hands...but they that endure in their faith shall be saved from under the curse itself. And then shall appear the signs of the truth; first, the sign of an out-spreading in heaven; then the sign of the sound of the trumpet; and the third, the resurrection of the dead; yet not of all, but as it is said: The Lord shall come and all His saints with Him. Then shall the world see the Lord coming upon the clouds of heaven." (The Didache)

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***Edited to include quote from The Didache

With respect to 2 Thessalonians 2:1-4:

1. The Greek word for "falling away" is "apostasia". Is the verse referring to apostasy among Christians/churches, or among non-Christians?

The latter interpretation is troublesome, because non-Christians are already in a fallen state, so to speak.

2. Does the falling away happen before the antichrist is revealed, or in conjunction with that? (c.f. what does "first" mean?)

I found this interesting commentary written by Jeffrey Weima (Professor of New Testament at Calvin Theological Seminary): http://bit.ly/1GL2kfP

His answer to Question 2 is that the grammar is ultimately ambiguous, it's not clear whether the great apostasy and the unveiling of the antichrist are sequential or simultaneous events.

As for Question 1, he has a Calvinist take on the passage. He believes in the perseverance of the saints, and argues that as every human has an original relationship to his Creator (via God's revelation of Himself in creation, c.f. Romans 1), it is possible to speak of rebellion against God and thus apostasy among non-Christians.

The early church fathers were unanimous that the Roman Empire was the hindrance to the man of sin being revealed. The reformers, reading this Thess. passage with Daniel 7, were unanimous that the man of sin was the papacy. It all fits very nicely

The term antichrist is only used twice in scripture and both times it does not refer to a specific individual.

In Paul's writings the temple of God is never the Jewish temple but rather the Church (see 1 Cor. 3:16 and 2 Cor. 6:16). The idea of the papacy setting up its throne within the Church therefore makes sense, along with some of the things mentioned in Daniel 7 that this "man" is said to do.

Brother,

I think it is an example of the "lovers of self", etc. that Paul discusses in 2 Timothy 3. That list is particularly directed at the "last days" condition of people.

As far as I can tell, this is not optional. This is mandatory: Satan MUST assault the image of God. It is his rebellious nature and it is his overarching goal.

Follow me on this for a sec.

1. Man is God's highest creation. (Gen. 1, 2; Ps. 8:4, 5; Ephesians 2:1-10)

2. Man is made in God's image. (Gen. 1, 2)

3. God is triune; He is a community within Himself, needing no other. (Gen. 1, 2; John 1:1-18; Acts 17:25)

4. Man's creation was not good with him being alone, without community; therefore, God made it "good" when He made "male and female" "in His image" and "joined [them] together" as "one flesh". (Gen. 1, 2)

5. Therefore, marriage and the one-flesh relationship is God's first and lasting revelation of His nature as a community of persons.

6. Satan is God's enemy who works in creation through schemes. (2 Cor. 2:11, Matthew 4:1-11). Those schemes include the harming of people. (Luke 11:13-16)

7. Satan's goal is to prevent any hope of any of God's image-bearers being placed in the Gospel. (Luke 8:11-12)

8. One scheme of Satan is to snatch away hope that has been planted in those who may otherwise believe. (Luke 8)

9. Another scheme of Satan is to prevent the great mass of people from ever seeing the truth by using distortion, deception and thus "blinding" the world to the truth of the gospel. (2 Cor. 4:3-4)

10. Satan is particularly adept at using man's most basic, essential nature against him. We see this in the Garden when Eve is tempted, we see it in the wilderness when Jesus is tempted.

11. Just as eating food and gaining knowledge are inherent qualities we possess, so are self-awareness & self-nurture part of who we are. "No man hates his own flesh, but nourishes it and cherishes it." (Eph. 5:29)

12. Sexuality is part of who we are created to be. "[A] man shall cleave unto his wife...". See, also, 1 Cor. 7:2, 3.

13. Therefore, as part of his last days strategy to mar the image of God in the view of man, and to prevent his hope being placed in the truth, and even snatching away the hope of some who would otherwise believe, Satan will mar and distort the true image of God in the eyes of men as he blinds them to the truth. He can most effectively do this by perverting human understanding of our sexuality as it drives to the heart of who we are created to be and who God is in us.

It is my own personal view that Satan MUST do this now. That it is the perfect time, for Satan's schematic needs, to do this now on a global scale. It is not unreasonable to think so since time is short (getting shorter, too).

Consider, too, in this light, 1 Timothy 4:

Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2 through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4 For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5 for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

"Forbid marriage" includes hindering or denying it. It isn't sexual abstinence; it is a blocking of that which is good, just like "abstinence from foods" is not about starvation but blocking a life of thankful partaking of that which God blesses for those who "believe and know the truth".

(I know homosexuals now "marry", but it is not marriage as God defines it, it is not the union of two people in one flesh in reflection of His own nature. That's the point of Satan's scheme, right?)

So, yes, in my understanding of Scripture, homosexual conduct and approval of it are symptomatic of the time of the end.

I agree that it is playing a part; however it is not clear that this behavior is worse now or more common now than it was in ancient cultures. In Rome it wasn't even considered taboo and almost expected.

But, look what happened to Rome. :)

Lesbianism was not accepted in early ancient Rome. When it did become more active later, it was largely in connection with occultism.

Rome was also symbolically referred to as Babylon by John the Apostle in Revelation. The acceptance of homosexual conduct in old Rome doesn't mitigate it as a feature of the time of the end. And, homosexuality in Rome included pedophilia. Tacitus, the 1st and 2nd century AD Roman historian, described Nero's transvestitism and pedophilia in much the same kind of language we hear about Bruce Jenner now.

Seutonius, another historian of the day, wrote that Nero married a man who was at the time married to another man. A tri-male marriage.

This conduct did not carry over throughout the world. And, it was fastidiously rejected by the early church in spite of the culture. This must be emphasized!! The Holy Spirit moved on His people to reject the culture event then.

In the Didache, written in the 2nd century AD as an early form of catechism for Christians, distinguished explicitly between the way of life and the way of death. Among its teachings were that Christians were to NOT have illicit sex, no sex outside of marriage of a man and woman, no pedophilic sex, no abortion, no infanticide and no pharmakeuseis (drugs/potions). Potions were often to induce abortion. All of these, by the way, were okay by Roman moral standards at the time. Christianity alone stood in the Roman Empire as the voice against all unholy sexual acts.

Is it worse now?

Does it have to be measurably worse? Or, can we consider these features in context of Christianity's rising and falling influence? By the 5th century AD, Rome outlawed same-sex marriages. These practices became less common as the gospel moved into the world as an influential force (in policy even if not in hearts). Now that Christianity is on the wane as an influence in the world (in policy, and seemingly in hearts, too), isn't this fact more likely to place us squarely in the 2 Timothy 3 context? Or, put another way, doesn't it make it more likely that these are the last days since the ancient ways of sin are rising as Christianity is increasingly rejected by the world? This was certainly not the case in ancient Rome as the faith moved from Constantine's day forward.

Hi Tim-

I am by no means saying thing aren't pretty debauched today. They surely are. Just not sure if things are SO much more debauched today than in other prior times.

But I certainly agree that we are in the lower part of a downward spiral. Of course it is entirely possible we are only in the very top part of the spiral and things will get gradually worse over the next 100 years or so until the Lord returns. We really have no way of knowing for sure. For all we know it could be like Mad Max 20 years from now. It all depends on what happens. People keep saying we are in the last days but we have all heard that before. The early church thought they were in the last days.

I recently listened to a book on cd by cormac McCarthy called The Road. That surely painted a grim picture of a not too far future America.

Mad Max....that is a chilling thought.

I believe time is short.

I KNOW 😊 that the Father has the times and seasons under His authority and He has not given us that power. Yet I do honestly think He has equipped us with understanding of the times. I know I am deeply concerned--pained-- to see my neighbors come to Christ.

Unbelievers will always rejoice in their unbelief and their ungodly practices.

There will always be those in the church that cry like Chicken Little, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling," pointing to outside factors for the end times.

But we cannot blame the world for the great falling away, it will be inside the church where the great falling away happens.

While I agree that approval of perversion is a sign of the end times, I also understand that this is telling us something else - that there will be no widespread revival that will usher in the millenium age. And...there are those that believe that.

Adding to this confusion I was made aware of lists circulating in social media of verses omitted in the newer translations. One list I looked at was in serious error. Did a random check of a few verses and they were included in the NASB, not omitted.

Confusion stalks one at every turn unless you know the Creator. Are we spooked by the roar of the enemy?

Sandra

"The term antichrist is only used twice in scripture and both times it does not refer to a specific individual."

Quoting the first part of 1 John 2:18: "and as you have heard that antichrist shall come" - in this instance, it is definitely referring to a specific individual, who is the same as the "man of sin"/"man of lawlessness" in 2 Thess 2.

Unbelievers will always rejoice in their unbelief and their ungodly practices.

There will always be those in the church that cry like Chicken Little, "The sky is falling, the sky is falling," pointing to outside factors for the end times.

But we cannot blame the world for the great falling away, it will be inside the church where the great falling away happens.

I believe those who do the most damage to the Christian community are self-professing "Christians" who have "a form of godliness but denying its power" (2 Tim 3:5). This is linked to the parables concerning the wheat and the tares, the sheep and the goats.

It's interesting that Paul is very firm in his counsel - "from such people turn away". Yet there are already some among the evangelical community, who are trying to cast same-sex marriage as a non-essential issue over which Christians can have fellowship.

I started this thread, because there have been ex-pastors of evangelical churches in my area who have declared their support for homosexual relations. It's terrifying that these people who have been in ministry, yet do not know God, nor His Scriptures, nor have appropriated His power for themselves. What kind of preaching and counsel were they offering throughout their years in the evangelical community?

If people do no believe that God can set people free of homosexual lust, then they certainly cannot believe that God can set people free of heterosexual lust or other sins. Where is the power to be children of God (John 1:12)?

So my view is that this is not a crisis over same-sex marriage or LGBT issues. It is fundamentally a gospel crisis - which offers not only redemption, but also freedom from the power of sin.

QUOTE:
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And it seems we read far more books about the Bible then the Bible itself.
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AMEN! So true.

Sandra

RE: ///"The Satanic Bible", "The Joy of Gay Sex" Bible Dictionaries, Study Tools, NIV, Lexicons, Zondervan, Harper Collins - OWNED by Rupert Murdoch NewsCorp. This is what all of these things have in common///

You can now add Thomas Nelson publishers to that list they sold out to Murdoch also.

Referring to the King James Bible : "It is Anointed" - Keith Daniels

To me the great falling away has nothing to do with the approval of homosexual behavior in any pulpits. ministers have been approving of that for centuries. And it's not legal but it is accepted in the state of Israel.

I'm not saying that makes it right, I'm just saying that the legalization of gay marriage suddenly doesn't mean the "sky is falling"... YET!! :) :) :) I'm quite sure it plays **a part** but not **the part** of the end of all things.

I would like to end with this... Jesus never pointed out people's sins, when they met HIM - they knew. Ministers need to get to that place when they minister, they are an extension of Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. Too many today (and it has been this way for YEARS), their sheep leave in the exact same condition they arrived in. If we are truly HIS ambassadors then we have the same power HE did.

It's the anointing that breaks the yoke of BONDAGE (any type of bondage), I didn't say that - the Bible states that (Isaiah 10.27). You can explain it away or pray that His anointing fall, therefore setting you and others free!!

These discussion boards are nice but there is a place where the rubber meets the road, my friends. I daresay when Jesus returns there will be "Christians" still talking about the things of God while others are out there "doing" the things of God. Your choice!! Be the rubber that meets the road for Christ!! :)

Quoting,

"The early church fathers were unanimous that the Roman Empire was the hindrance to the man of sin being revealed. The reformers, reading this Thess. passage with Daniel 7, were unanimous that the man of sin was the papacy. It all fits very nicely."

"The term antichrist is only used twice in scripture and both times it does not refer to a specific individual."

"In Paul's writings the temple of God is never the Jewish temple but rather the Church (see 1 Cor. 3:16 and 2 Cor. 6:16). The idea of the papacy setting up its throne within the Church therefore makes sense, along with some of the things mentioned in Daniel 7 that this "man" is said to do."(END)

There are other opinions and in those it may not be so unanimous of an appraisal that all of the early church fathers spoke with one mind regrading the man of sin being the Papacy etc. I just want to present another view because practically and exegetically speaking it seems to many, not just me, a hard exegetical task to fit the Pqapcy into the mold of the Antichrist as many have commonly believed and done for a long while.

Quoting,

"One of the most prevailing features of the Historicist interpretation has been the view that the beast is the Roman papacy and the false prophet the Roman Church. This view was so widely held that for a long time it was called the Protestant view. This view has little to commend it, for the Revelation woukld in this case have little to say to the churches of Asia to which it was addressed."

(George Eldon Ladd - "A Commentary on the Revelation of John." Intro - pg 11.)

The word antichrist may be use only twice in scriptiure but there are other descriptions of this coming personage in many places in scripture without the term antichrist being used. Many commentators have viewed Daniel's description of the man of sin as starting in Daniel 11:36 but growing opinion now proposes in some quarters that it is likely the description begins in verse 21 of Daniel 11. It's certainly a specific male individual who is described.

Persoanl pronouns used to describe the Antichrist/man of sin:

21 In his place a despicable PERSON will arise, on whom the honor of kingship has not been conferred, but HE will come in a time of tranquility and seize the kingdom by intrigue. 22 The overflowing forces will be flooded away before Him and shattered, and also the prince of the covenant. 23 After an alliance is made with HIM HE will practice deception, and HE will go up and gain power with a small force of people. 24 In a time of tranquility HE will enter the richest parts of the realm, and HE will accomplish what HIS fathers never did, nor HIS ancestors; HE will distribute plunder, booty and possessions among them, and HE will devise his schemes against strongholds, but only for a time. 25 HE will stir up his strength and [ah]courage against the king of the South with a large army; so the king of the South will mobilize an extremely large and mighty army for war; but he will not stand, for schemes will be devised against him. 26 Those who eat his choice food will destroy him, and his army will overflow, but many will fall down slain. 27 As for both kings, THEIR hearts will be intent on evil, and they will speak lies to each other at the same table; but it will not succeed, for the end is still to come at the appointed time. 28 Then HE will return to HIS land with much plunder; but HIS heart will be SET AGAINST THE HOLY COVENANT, and HE will take action and then return to HIS own land. 29 "At the appointed time he will return and come into the South, but this last time it will not turn out the way it did before. 30 For ships of Kittim will come against HIM; therefore HE will be disheartened and will return and become ENRAGED AT THE HOLY COVENANT and take action; so HE will come back and show regard for those who forsake the holy covenant. 31 Forces from HIM will arise, desecrate the sanctuary fortress, and do away with the regular sacrifice. And they will set up the ABOMINATION OF DESOLATION 32 By smooth words HE will turn to godlessness those who act wickedly toward the covenant, but the people who know their God will display strength and take action. 33 Those who have insight among the people will give understanding to the many; yet they will fall by sword and by flame, by captivity and by plunder for many days. 34 Now when they fall they will be granted a little help, and many will join with them in hypocrisy. 35 Some of those who have insight will fall, in order to refine, purge and make them pure until the end time; because it is still to come at the appointed time. 36 "Then the king will do as HE pleases, and he will exalt and magnify HIMSELF above every god and will speak monstrous things against the God of gods; and HE will prosper until the indignation is finished, for that which is decreed will be done. 37 HE will show no regard for the gods of his fathers or for the desire of women, nor will HE show regard for any other god; for HE will magnify HIMSELF above them all. 38 But instead HE will honor a god of fortresses, a god whom HIS fathers did not know; HE will honor him with gold, silver, costly stones and treasures. 39 HE will take action against the strongest of fortresses with the help of a foreign god; HE will give great honor to those who acknowledge HIM and will cause them to rule over the many, and will parcel out land for a price. 40 "At the end time the king of the South will collide with HIM, and the king of the North will storm against HIM with chariots, with horsemen and with many ships; and HE will enter countries, overflow them and pass through. 41 HE will also enter the Beautiful Land, and many countries will fall; but these will be rescued out of HIS hand: Edom, Moab and the foremost of the sons of Ammon. 42 Then HE will stretch out HIS hand against other countries, and the land of Egypt will not escape. 43 But HE will gain control over the hidden treasures of gold and silver and over all the precious things of Egypt; and Libyans and Ethiopians will follow at HIS heels. 44 But rumors from the East and from the North will disturb HIM, and HE will go forth with great wrath to destroy and annihilate many. 45 HE will pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the seas and the beautiful Holy Mountain; yet HE will come to HIS end, and no one will help HIM.

(Daniel 11:21-45 - NASB)