There are news programs coming out more now concerning transgender people. It is showing the struggles of people who are transgender. How should we respond with the gospel to people who are having this type of struggle?
Anyone willing to comment...who is truly sincere concerning the light you have received?
This doesn't bother me at all, brother! And I'm willing to comment on the light the Lord has shown me... I prayed about it a few weeks ago and the Lord said to "minister to the SOUL not the sin."
If one truly love souls then I believe it can be done; instead of trying to clean the fish before you reel it into the boat, so to speak!! :)
God bless,
Lisa
Great analogy, Lysa!
rbanks - the gospel is for such people :)
Here is someone's testimony of finding freedom from transgender desires through Jesus Christ: http://www.firststone.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84:cross-dressing-and-christianity-a-real-mans-struggle&catid=55:cross-dressing&Itemid=64
I have a transgender friend.
He lives as a woman.
He recently changed his name.
I openly and directly challenged his thought processes about the issue.
I challenged him to believe Jesus and laid out the gospel to him. He asserted that this who he is. I asserted that God is who He is, I AM, and that it is His likeness that we are to "trans" to and it only occurs through repentance and obeying the gospel.
We had the conversation in honesty and with gloves on, masks off.
He remains in his sin. I remain in prayer.
Thanks to all that have responded!
Do any of you believe that a person can be born with a gender identity that make a person feel like a different sex than what they were raise as?
I mean I saw a program one time where they stated that a child was born with 2 different sex organs. The parents decided to choose one sex over the other and later on the child felt different than the sex that was chosen.
Do you think it is possible for some to be born with mixed up identities that they struggle with or do you think that this is impossible and that every transgender people are led this way because of the devil. Do you also believe that a transgender person must go back to the original gender in order to finally be saved?
This is more complexed that just a simple answer in light of all that is happening in the world today and we must be wise in the spirit of the Lord.
Blessing to all!
Concepts like "sexual orientation" or "gender identity" are unbiblical. Building on these ideas can only lead us astray from our true identity, i.e. we are who God says we are.
Intersex people (those with male and female anatomical traits) are different from those who struggle with transgender desires. It is an abnormality like other genetic disorders, as a product of our fallen world... but there is always John 9:2-3.
Transgender and sexual orientation are two different things. They should not be mixed at all. LGBT community has mixed them historically because LGB and T were all historically not accepted. Hence they were grouped together.
LGB, which is based on sexual orientation is a plain sin. A person should repent of this behavior before they choose Jesus as their Savior. They at least should be willing to fight this orientation of theirs. We are not saying they should completely come out of it before accepting Jesus. But at least hate and believe in their heart that they have sinned against the Lord.
Without explaining what Sin is, how can we minister someone Jesus who came to save the world from Sin (Matthew 1:21)? The entire purpose of Jesus is lost. They only give a picture of Jesus who loves them and their sins as well, which is not true. Such a Gospel is a useless Gospel that will only succeeding in onboarding the fishes in the boat to Hell rather than to serve the Lord as his own people.
Now coming back to Transgender, by definition we have 2 kinds of transgender ( may be more types but I am not aware of). One who are born with 2 sexual organs, who cannot be identified either as Male or Female right from birth. Such people have to be accepted as they are. Jesus himself said that there are people who are born as eunuchs in Matthew 19:11. eunuchs are those who are impotent, so born eunuchs can also include those who have both the sexuality in them and hence are impotent. Jesus himself acknowledged their presence. They can serve the Lord as a 3rd sexuality.
Now the second category is those who are identified as a particular sex based on their organs, but think that they are different. This is often the mental issue. They might have had childhood issues of being raised as an opposite sex. I heard of a case where a boy was raised as a girl by his grandmother. He always believed that he was a girl, but had to behave outwardly as a boy. He even got married to a women, but once he decided to give himself for his mental desire to be a women. He did the sex change operation. Now he became a women. After that he realized that his mind has cheated him, he was originally a male. He accepted Jesus, repented of his sins, but never could became a man like how he was designed by God.
I believe most of these are mental issues or hormonal. Both can be treated medically. I believe God sees this as a SIN. We have to tell them openly. They may not able to correct their life in one attempt, but are they willing to correct? That is what matters.
rbanks wrote:
Do you think it is possible for some to be born with mixed up identities that they struggle with or do you think that this is impossible and that every transgender people are led this way because of the devil.
ANY "compulsion" is demonic in nature. Whether it be drinking, drugging, sex, FOOD, or cross-dressing.
The man in the article loved Christ and had a relationship with Him, the man was able to HEAR the voice of His Shepherd and overcome this oppression. This man "*received* the LOVE of the truth!"
rbanks wrote:
Do you also believe that a transgender person must go back to the original gender in order to finally be saved?
rbanks wrote:
This is more complexed that just a simple answer in light of all that is happening in the world today and we must be wise in the spirit of the Lord.
God bless,
Lisa
Thanks very much Lisa, Tim, Yuehan, and Sree for your generous replies! I agree very much so and appreciate you sharing your understanding!
I wanted to hear some other spirit led brethren's perspective on this issue.
The Lord has already shown me through a vision that many will be deceived in these last days concerning the sin of sexual immorality and homosexuality. There is no doubt in my mind that homosexuality is an abomination in the sight of God. I also know that God loves his creation and desires all to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
Again I appreciate your willingness to give your insights concerning the transgender that we will see more of in these last days.
Blessings to all!
An anecdote:
At a church I used to attend there was s family we knew fairly well who had 2 daughters. The older daughter was normal. The younger daughter was a female in sex and name only. From when she was a very little child (we saw her grow up) she looked, dressed and talked like a boy. If you did not know her name was a girls name you never would have guessed in a million years she was a girl without a physical exam. When she was very young we chalked it up to tomboyism but as she matured we knew something else was up.
I think the question we have to ask if people who say they feel this way are lying. If they are not lying are they in some way deceived? Or is it possible that there is some genetic issue or biological process involved?
If they are not lying about it, then one of the other factors are in play. Was this little girl we knew being deceived at a very young pre-puberty age? Was something hormonal or genetic going on?
I think the answers to these questions must inform our response.
part of the issue is parents not correcting children when they are young. to many parents just want their children to always be happy and always feel good about themselves so no guidance is given. then you have the world around you that screams boys and girls are the same and completely equal in all things so much that genders become blended. God created Adam and Eve, each one unique and different from the other. but the world wants to blue that truth.
another issue is a lot of father are absent from the home as well this can cause an imbalance in family life. of course all of this goes back to God being rejected shoved out of daily life. when the light is push aside, darkness and confusion always follows.
rdg
TMK wrote
If they are not lying about it, then one of the other factors are in play. Was this little girl we knew being deceived at a very young pre-puberty age? Was something hormonal or genetic going on?I think the answers to these questions must inform our response.
Something to think about.
I think most folks today just get an ultrasound.
You'd be surprised with the people that play with the unknown and what they don't understand.
I don't know Lisa. I don't doubt the anecdote but I'd keep that story "in the family."
Hi rbanks,
Do any of you believe that a person can be born with a gender identity that make a person feel like a different sex than what they were raise as?
No. Gender is biological. If you take a DNA test with a company like 23andMe, Ancestry or another company, you will learn something about chromosomes. A male can trace both his maternal and paternal haplogroups because that male has both the X and Y chromosomes. The same cannot be said about females. They only have the X chromosome.
There is no evidence -- outside of a disorder -- that states people are born with a disconnect between their physical gender and their mental gender.
I mean I saw a program one time where they stated that a child was born with 2 different sex organs. The parents decided to choose one sex over the other and later on the child felt different than the sex that was chosen.
This is exceptionally rare in nature and is typically identified as a defective fertilization process (often when a twin would have normally developed). There has never been a case in which a person born as a hermaphrodite (a person born with both male and female "parts") had both sets of gonads functioning. Either one set work and the other does not or they both do not function (and the non-working gonad often becomes cancerous). In every case (except for one), the individual's gonads always aligned with their predominant XX or XY chromosome identification. In that one strange case, an XY predominant person (genetically speaking) who lived as a female and had fully-developed female organs (but not male) actually gave birth. However, the conclusion was that this one case was that of a "merged" and mutated development and is the only documented case of its type in which the body did not necessarily align with the predominant presence of the Y chromosome in a true hermaphrodite.
I would argue that this is very different from people who claim to be "transgender." Transgender is a mental disorder in which the mind tells someone that they are a gender opposite the one that they were born. It is exceptionally rare and is never associated with genetic or biologic normalcy. It is difficult to diagnose because there is almost always a component of "acceptance" in the families that diagnose their children with this disorder. In other words, there is a very real "nurture" component to it. I read one report in which the rate of occurrence in children was so much higher in families that were either LGBT or LGBT-friendly, that one could even diagnose the "transgender" condition as possibly being a result of nurture received in the LGBT house.
Still, it is important to point out that "transgender" (aka gender dysphoria) disorder is exceptionally rare -- even more so than the number of people diagnosed with other mental disorders like schizophrenia, misophonia or other conditions. In fact, the number of "transgender" individuals is liberally estimated (through polls about gender self-identification) at between 0.002 to 0.014% of the population. With about 7.1 Billion people on the planet, this works out to a liberal estimate of between 142,000 to 994,000 individuals living with this disorder. Yet, the occurrence is much lower in rural areas or regions deemed more "conservative" and in all but a handful of "open" cities. For instance, the rates of occurrence among residents including "transplants" (people who moved to a location) in cities like San Francisco or Boston is much, much higher than the rate of occurrence worldwide. This quantification points to nurture over nature (unless one argues that there is "something in the water").
Do you think it is possible for some to be born with mixed up identities that they struggle with or do you think that this is impossible and that every transgender people are led this way because of the devil.
Personally, I believe that people are nurtured this way -- either nurtured from childhood through encouragement by opinionated parents OR by a society that now encourages people toward egotism and hedonism. Unfortunately, it is the hysteria of the moment -- encouraged by Hollywood and the media -- possibly in the hopes of enlarging the numbers of those who claim that they are affected by this condition.
There is a young man who works at a local PetSmart. My wife loves fish and we have several aquariums at home and the school where she works. Consequently, we visit that PetSmart often. One day, this young man -- who is quite androgynous and seems to identify as a woman (given the way his voice changes and the way he dresses) -- spoke with me about how I was not "afraid" of him. This opened the door, of course, to talk about spiritual matters.
This young man mentioned that he began "reconsidering his gender" (his words) at the encouragement of his parents -- who happen to be LGBT activists. We have spoken often enough that he knows that I don't hate him. I asked him if he considered whether their influence might have played a role in rethinking his gender. He agreed -- but said that his parents only want him to be the person that he was "born" to be. I asked him, "Then why do you make the effort to change your voice to sound more effeminate?"
This question puzzled him. I told him that his voice often changes from a more masculine-sounding male to an effeminate-sounding female. I asked him which one was real. He said, "I don't know what you mean." So, I asked, "Which voice requires you to make an effort? When you stub your toe, do you say 'ouch' in a masculine or feminine voice?" Apparently, he understood and wasn't offended by my question. "Oh," he said, "my voice is male. I just make the effort to sound like who I am inside." I then asked, "If you are trying to be the person that you were born to be, why would you make an effort to change something as integral to who you are as your voice?" I asked him if he had ever looked into whether this was an actual product of nature or a product of conditioning. I asked what he thought caused his condition.
By the way, I use the term "condition" very loosely -- because it cannot be diagnosed by medical professionals on the basis of genes, body chemistry, genitalia or another other way outside of a mental health professional's signature or observation about the way a person behaves.
Do I think that there is something diabolical at play. Yes. While I strongly oppose silly conspiracy theories that are so loosely thrown around by some people that are based more of rumor, gossip, an imaginative thought process or other things that spur such matters, I do believe in an eternal conspiracy of the ages. Satan exists. He knows his time is short.
What was the first command that God gave Adam and Eve?
"God blessed them; and God said to them, "Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”Genesis 1:28 (NASB)
We live in an age in which humans are being redirected away from this first command. Environmentalists almost worship this planet as if it was their god and its preferred maintenance is their religion. I have always thought that it was interesting that godless people encourage things like abortion, homosexuality and transgender disorder. Why? The humans made in God's image and likeness are no longer fruitful and multiply. The Liberals of this world are more concerned over a hunter who kills a lion in Africa than a pro-abortion agency harvesting baby body parts for resale.
When I see a former Olympian going on television and viewers being encouraged (e.g., indoctrinated, coerced, brainwashed, etc...) into believing it to be "normal" or praiseworthy, I just assume that this is a part of a society that is running away from God and rushing toward judgment and Eternity.
Do you also believe that a transgender person must go back to the original gender in order to finally be saved?
I think that the Holy Spirit will bring clarity to the person who truly comes to the Lord. As such, I believe that they will revert to their real gender -- the one that they were born with. This is true for people who only pretend to be the opposite gender or even those who spend enormous amounts of money on surgery, chemical ingestion, wigs, makeup, etc... BTW, I have always thought that it was hypocritical for modern Liberals to tell people that they should not be ashamed of who they were born to be YET they embrace a disorder in which they are encouraged to spend money to change or disguise the physical body (and even voice) that they were born with.
tmk wrote:
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I don't know Lisa. I don't doubt the anecdote but I'd keep that story "in the family."
Hi brother Chris,
Thank you for all this information that has brought confirmation to my spirit in the Lord.
I have always appreciated your knowledge and wisdom on so many things. Your love for God has always been evident over the years that I have read your posts.
Thanks again brother so much!
Love in Christ,
rbanks
No Lisa- I don't think everyone has access to adequate healthcare. Nor do I believe that God allows unborn children to be cursed in the womb because of superstitious parents.
The Bible says all are Male or Female...period. That's it. Case closed.
This discussion is locked.
