Nasher
May 5, 2005
How do we live / walk in the Spirit?
How do we live / walk in the Spirit?
That's an interesting question! True story. I was driving down the road one morning early--6am I think, and I was listening to a christian talk show where callers call in with questions. A man called in and was very distraught. I forget what exactly what the specific circumstances were. But I'll never forget what these 2 radio hosts said, in a very spiritual and authoritive tone(I make that last statement tongue in cheek), "just walk in the spirit brother". That was it! I was so mad, and like the man who called I was left hanging with what I call a religious platitude. It was empty advice. That got me seeking the Lord as to how to answer, what is walking in the Spirit. I won't go through the scripture unless some one asks but basically, "walking in the spirit is the doing of God's word daily in our lives, its the proper application of His principles and precepts done daily by us". I know what you're thinking, Some will say that's too easy, some will say that's to hard and some will say that's legalistic, but Jesus said His words were life and light. Well there's enough there to get this thread stared down the road.
Hi Nasher,This is a timely question and one that has really been on my heart of late. My first answer is to admit that we must submit and remain FULLY submitted to the Holy Ghost so that we might remain FULL of the Holy Ghost. When God is wrestling with us about something we need to submit that thing to God. If we do not we start down a slippery slope towards carnality. When I say 'carnality' I mean simply trying to live the Christian life in our own strength. Sometimes we would like to have the power of the Holy Ghost on the one hand, but on the other hand we will not stop resisting Him in some area. This is what is called "giving place to the Devil." Place is a 'real estate' term. We give the enemy some piece of ground (as it were) in our life and the Holy Ghost is grieved and in a controversy with us. How can a person be filled with the Holy Ghost and be resisting at the same time?How do we give 'place' to the Devil? Many times the enemy will use someone or 'something' to anger us until we begin to grieve the Holy Spirit by allowing that thing to go unresolved. We allow the sun to go down on our wrath and pretty soon we are struggling to maintain the fullness of God. God will not condone bitterness. He will deal with us to deal with it and when we will not the process of struggling begins. The enemy moves in SWIFTLY at these times and starts challenging us in other areas. He sees we are vulnerable and wants to make a quick work of us. IF he succeeds in getting us to stumble at these times in some other area we have both the anger issue and the violated conscience keeping us from boldly entering in to the throne of grace. The enemy plays on this all the more to try to drive a wedge between us and God. He knows that TIME IS ON HIS SIDE. If he will wait long enough- the Christain in controversy with God will stumble and fall. They will drift farther and farther behind. Once we submit fully to God the supply of the Spirit is more than enough. We can walk in the Spirit FULL of the Spirit. We cannot walk in the Spirit in our own power. If we live in the Spirit let us also walk in the Spirit. Are we full of the life of God through His Holy Spirit or are we weak and sickly because we have a controversy with God? What adorns the walls of the chamber of images in our Temple? Have we made the Holy Spirit welcome? This is really the first step to walking in the Spirit and holiness. We are holy when we are full of the Holy Ghost. When we are not full- we find ourselves going through religious exercise mechanically. It becomes a serious effort to do anything for God. Even feeling God at those times is hard. Why? We need to submit to God and allow a fresh filling of the Spirit to empower us for another day to walk full of Him. Christ in YOU- walking and living out His will in us as we are filled with His Spirit. If we will do that we will not fulfill the desires of the flesh.God BLess,-Robert
Very interesting timing here. Hesitate as it seems am I still struggling a bit with this in one sense and this want of yakking all over the place...When I say 'carnality' I mean simply trying to live the Christian life in our own strength.Perfectly stated and had begun to notice this in recent days and if it could be read between the lines, "living off the 'reserves'" in a sense. And it doesn't necessarily mean to be 'in sin', just in reliance of 'our own strength', 'in the flesh'. I noticed it for what it is as if presented with a choice, like looking in a mirror and seeing it. The 'head talk, self talk' was along the lines of "You are walking in the flesh, you see it don't you? Will you put your trust back onto your feelings, be carried about by what is seen, be dragged down by these circumstances? Or will you put your trust in the Lord despite all this? You say you are dead to all this and yet the drift... I see it, I recognize it, the sense of that even subtle 'felt' Presence seems to be away, not 'felt' yet still there. Still carrying, but silent." So it has become just a time to fight, fight the thought, fight the temptation, fight the imaginations. Not in anger, not in the same reliance of my own strength, but to move on... It's that paradox again, to rest in a sure trust while fighting the bent and all the other 'outside' things that come into play.A part of this whole challenge is in work. Being a completely different surrounding and atmosphere and it's a good one most certainly. But probably the best way to put it would be the opposite of how it is often portrayed. "How do I bring my faith to work", whereas it is "How do I fit my work into my faith". It can be a 'work' in itself, trying to apply the principals of "Practicing the Presence of God" in this new setting with so much to concentrate on and learn and the juggling of responsibilities... It's a long way from the happy days of having endless messages constantly piped into the cranium via a Walkman not so long ago. Not to get the wrong idea, not a reliance on, no, it was a blessed time and even in those days was beyond grateful to have that opportunity, often felt a bit guilty knowing that everyone else was out there in the circumstances similar to where I find myself now.But the recognition is definitely there and that's a start and am truly thankful for it, there is enough impossibilities daily that can keep one crying out "Abba Father" and the praying without ceasing still is only a pause away. It is in the little things, the 'checks' you get in your spirit; 'um, that was a bit untruthful there'(yes, it's a lie), a little to cutesy here', 'is that what you really wanted to say?''Your off' again... :-? I am rambling... again.
As any true born again believer will atest too, when one is born again, a war begins between the flesh and spirit. Or, you can say a walk begins. This walk is only on one road. It has only two directions, and no side roads. There are however, some shortcuts. Paul told us that if we "walk after the spirit", we should not fulfill the desires of the flesh. So again we see the war, the conflict, the opposition. One part of us is the flesh, the other part the spirit. Both are opposed to each other, which brings us back to where we walk the walk, ie, on the "road". Jesus said, narrow is the way, and few are they who find it that leads to life. This way, is walking after the spirit.So to help make God's Word plain, let's imagine ourselves on a road. Since there are no side roads, it is only possible to walk in one of two directions. To walk in one direction is to walk opposite the other, and we make progress in the direction we travel. But it's one and the same road, regardless of which direction we are going. I think it's the same with the road of christian living. We either walk after or in the direction of the leading of our spirit, or in the opposited direction and leading of our flesh. We get on this road by faith. Anything that is not of faith is sin. So if you are not living by faith, you are not on this road. One end of this road leads to life, while the other leads to torment, chastisement and difficulty in the spirit. Have you ever played the game "Chutes and Ladders". Oh what a wonderful illustration of this walk. Once you begin on this road, it only has one goal, regardless of who gets there first. The road curves this way and that. You make progress by putting your desires into action, action being steps or a walk. Now along the way, you may find yourself at the bottom of a ladder. These ladders are called blessings of grace, unmerited favor. It's the shortcut of God and we find ourselves suddenly much further up the road than we deserve. The other things you may encounter on this "way" are chutes. These are the result of sin, sins of doubt and unbelief. When we stop there, we slide down the chute and find ourselves far too often in familiar territory. But we are still on the road. It's so important to realize that we are not out of the game of eternal life by landing on an sliding down a chute. We just have to come some ground over again, face the same issues, circumstances or events again, so that this time we make the right choice and not stop in a place where there is doubt and unbelief.I could preach on this for quite some time, but I think you get the picture. Have fun with it in your own thoughts. The Holy Spirit is ever leading and guiding, moment by moment. Obedience to His leading takes us further up the narrow way. Consulting Him about the ordinary decisions in life, and trusting Him regardless of our sight or understanding takes us up higher, day by day. When we do not follow Him, we lose ground. Sometimes is not much, far too often it's huge. So we find ourselves at a place of having to "start over". God is patient and merciful. As long as our hope for eternal life is in Jesus Christ and Him crucified, we stay on the "Way". Jesus is the Way. Yes it's rocky. Yes it is often lonely. But He is always there, ever leading and guiding....if only we obey.
Prov. 14:14 \tThe backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,\tBut a good man will be satisfied from above. A babe in Christ must go to Him who is above. A babe in Christ must dwell in the Holy Scriptures. The Lord is faithful to speak, to teach, to lead one who feeds on His word daily. There is not much a man can do but water and sow. Do not put your trust in man, but seek Him through the Scriptures. That is where one finds the "increase" that comes from Him alone. Man shall not live on bread alone, but every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. He is faithful to teach you as He did David, Paul, John, and anyone else that "wanted" to hear and 'do."We all stumble along His path, yet He will heal our backsliding by giving us what Soloman wrote about. Prov. 14:14 \tThe backslider in heart will be filled with his own ways,\tBut a good man will be satisfied from above. This is a promise given to His children. Live by faith and He will dine with you. In ChristJeff
... had begun to notice this in recent days and if it could be read between the lines, "living off the 'reserves'" in a sense. And it doesn't necessarily mean to be 'in sin', just in reliance of 'our own strength', 'in the flesh'. I noticed it for what it is as if presented with a choice, like looking in a mirror and seeing it. The 'head talk, self talk' was along the lines of "You are walking in the flesh, you see it don't you? Will you put your trust back onto your feelings, be carried about by what is seen, be dragged down by these circumstances? Or will you put your trust in the Lord despite all this? You say you are dead to all this and yet the drift... I see it, I recognize it, the sense of that even subtle 'felt' Presence seems to be away, not 'felt' yet still there. Still carrying, but silent." So it has become just a time to fight, fight the thought, fight the temptation, fight the imaginations. Not in anger, not in the same reliance of my own strength, but to move on... It's that paradox again, to rest in a sure trust while fighting the bent and all the other 'outside' things that come into play.These are the types of comments that books are made of. It is the words of one who is in the fight and consciously aware of it. The sad thing is that a Christian would be so far down that they are not in the fight. They are just lying down- unconscious that they are even on the canvas. Hang in there Bro. Mike! I feel you brother! I need a fresh drink from the well. I need renewed strength. A part of this whole challenge is in work. Being a completely different surrounding and atmosphere and it's a good one most certainly. But probably the best way to put it would be the opposite of how it is often portrayed. "How do I bring my faith to work", whereas it is "How do I fit my work into my faith". It can be a 'work' in itself, trying to apply the principals of "Practicing the Presence of God" in this new setting with so much to concentrate on and learn and the juggling of responsibilities... It's a long way from the happy days of having endless messages constantly piped into the cranium via a Walkman not so long ago. Not to get the wrong idea, not a reliance on, no, it was a blessed time and even in those days was beyond grateful to have that opportunity, often felt a bit guilty knowing that everyone else was out there in the circumstances similar to where I find myself now.We are so blessed to have the resources to feed our spirit with. I have felt like the Apostles made it without them- so can we. HOWEVER, I believe now that the enemy has so many weapons against us and means of distraction and compromise that we do well to drink in every drop of spiritual strength we possibly can. The enemy is using different weapons to tempt and test with age old temptations; so we must use what ever God has made available to keep the whole armour of God firmly fitted in place. God will give grace in the times of work I believe if we will just be careful to be sensitive to the Holy Ghost throughout the day- and do all that we do for God's glory as an expression of our faith where we one had filled our minds with sermons. Sermons are awesome. Worship and bible tapes are awesome. Yet, sometimes we just have to express our faith and go about our work as unto Him. God Bless,-Robert
This is indeed a very timely thread, I am excited to see how it develops. It is amazing to me that there is no real rule or definition on how to walk in the Spirit but everyone who is working out their salvation with ‘fear and trembling’ has a different part of the pie… it is very edifying. Paul motivates me with the statement he made in Philippians 3:12-14:Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.I mainly take this to mean forgetting what good may have been accomplished in me. Today is a new day, a new carrying of the cross, yesterday’s victory is over and forgotten, today I must focus all my energy on new victory and new possibilities of grace, as if I had not done anything at all in all my Christian walk. “Pick up your cross daily” says the Lord. I believe the struggle after a while is not so much sin but, the natural man…I can spend all day having done no sin but if you have not manifested the grace of and in Christ you still feel somewhat deflated and backslidden. The Life in the Spirit of Christ is not only avoiding the sin but it is the going the extra mile and looking for ways to be used up for others and for the Lord. Avoiding sin is only half the equation, the “extra mile” is the other half for me. The sermon on the mount does not exhort good, it exhorts grace and life, this is infinitely higher, but this is where the Spirit of the Lord works best, in the infinitely difficult and the eternal.James
Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. How does this scripture fit into the issue of 'walking in the Spirit'. If we resist the Holy Ghost long enough and remain carnal (in sin or living out of our own strength) do we walk out from under God's grace...'lose' our salvation? This was the first scripture I read when I bought a NKJV about a year ago, it wasn't in my NIV and it blew my mind and has engaged alot of meditation since. Seems to be a huge doctrinal statement left out of some translations if it actually means what it appears to read.The idea of resisting the flesh and submitting to the Holy Ghost daily has been on my heart since first reading that scripture, but most intensly the last couple of months. This thread is really timely.Look forward to continuing to read the replies.In Christ,Mr Nath.
I believe Paul may also have been referring to how he had persecuted the church, before his conversion. He mentions elsewhere how the saints were justifiably wary of him in the light of his past. But, he had got all that sorted out with God, before he could say this really important statement. forgetting those things which are behind,Then, every day, can you imagine how the accuser might have used it to nag him? Loudly, quietly, through memories of those who had lost loved ones? Agony! And yet, God had explained to him the safety of dying in Christ and he knew God had forgotten his old sins in Christ, as only being dead in Christ can effect. Now, he had to do the same in life - forget - every day. It had to be an active forgetting as well as an active pressing on. He also had reason to fear for his life, but he had to forget that too. What a challenge! But, having dealt with the past strengthened him for the future.Thank you for sharing these verses.Mr_Nath,I just checked out Romans 8:1 in the NIV and see what you mean! Didn't realise it became so fuzzy in that translation. The same thought goes is in Galatians 5:16I say then: Walk in the Spirit, and you shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh. 17 For the flesh lusts against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh; and these are contrary to one another, so that you do not do the things that you wish. The key lies in Romans 8:7 Because the carnal mind [is] enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be.Reading the first few chapters of Mark recently, highlighted this afresh for me - the mind of man v the mind of Christ - the stark difference between what impressed the disciples as amazing, and what came from Jesus as normal - healing, stilling waves, casting out evil spirits, breaking religious traditions with a clear conscience, forgiving sins. All this is within our reach, if our mind begins to think like His, is it not? The mind of the flesh is thoroughly earthbound.
I was reading Nee's biography last night again (against the tide). As a young man, there was an island that he had felt he was to go and proclaim the gospel to. HE struggled with the idea because it was a dangerous place but accepted it as God's will and began preparations. Many brothers were to go with him, a house was prepared and so forth. But five days before he was due to go his parents forbade him to go. He was sorely dissapointed and so prayed about the matter saying, "Lord is it not your will that I go?" the Lord said "yes its my will that you go, but I take no delight in my will be forced to happen" (approx)There are two parts that I would like to emphasise in relation to walking in the Spirit.1)Revelation of God's will.2)Yieldedness to his timing and to His way.Moses knew he was to be deliverer but needed to wait on God's direction. Abraham knew he was to be father of many nations, but again, needed to wait for God to move.Often we make the mistake of thinking that because we know what God's ultimate goal is (in realtion to a particular issue) we can just go ahead and do it.
Hi Mr. Nath,How does this scripture fit into the issue of 'walking in the Spirit'. If we resist the Holy Ghost long enough and remain carnal (in sin or living out of our own strength) do we walk out from under God's grace...'lose' our salvation? I tend to take a different line on this topic. I believe that if a person were genuinely born again that the chances of them ultimately being lost are very slim. J. Vernon McGee used to say that the 'sons' always return to the father's house and the hogs return to the hog pen. No matter how much you dress up a hog- he is by nature still a hog. Spray perfume dress him up and he is still a hog. On the other hand, no matter how muddy the son may get he is by nature still a 'son.' The son will come to himself if he is really a son. He is never at home in the muck and the mire. There are some anomalies to this view for sure- but by and large I believe it to be so.Leonard Ravenhill stressed the need for the New Birth. There must be a new birth experience in the life of a believer. This is a change of nature. The appetites change. Many who think they are Christians are actually what C. G. Finney called "professors." They profess Christ- but they never made it past the convicted state. They never really yielded everything to God. The Holy ghost brought them to the crossroads and they would not yield fully to Him and now they just hang around with a false assurance. Really it is no assurance at all because you see them often come to the altar for salvation every week. They know what God wants from them. They are aware of the controversy He has with them. Yet, they will not submit that thing to him. This was the first scripture I read when I bought a NKJV about a year ago, it wasn't in my NIV and it blew my mind and has engaged alot of meditation since. Seems to be a huge doctrinal statement left out of some translations if it actually means what it appears to read.This is a topic of much discussion here at SI. Certainly for study purposes you need a more literal translation. NKJV is a good start. The KJV is my favorite as I believe it is nearest the best as a translation. The language takes some getting used to- but you can match the words to a concordance and get a better feel for the meaning of the original Greek or Hebrew words. The idea of resisting the flesh and submitting to the Holy Ghost daily has been on my heart since first reading that scripture, but most intensly the last couple of months. This thread is really timely.Remember the New Testament passage: submit yourselves therefor unto God, resist the devil and he will flee from you? The KEY to this passage is submission to God. We think (and I have felt this also) that we need to resist "the flesh" or "Sin" or "the world" and that is it. Yet, the first thing we must do is fully submit to God. That is the hardest thing of all as we don't like to yield everything up to Him too easily. When we submit everything to Him the Holy Spirit will come in in fulness and empower us to live holy. We can't help but live holy when we are full of the Spirit. All our appetites are in subjection to God. Nothing is running rampant and wild. This is why the enemy 'flees.' The old timey preacher used to say- when the devil comes knocking send Christ to the door. I think there is some truth there.God Bless,-Robert
Oh, this is bound to be very helpful, this thread, already just a quick attempt at catching up here is causing some stirring...On the 'down' side of things...Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. How many times I have heard that verse cut short at that point and have practically lost my sanctified self (well, that's a bit problamatic isn't it...) even again from a good preacher on the radio that probably had the rest of the traffic thinking I needed to be locked up... Finish the verse!!!!"., who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."It's been mentioned before but... goodness, when will this stop? It almost makes one want to say "If you don't quit doing this type of thing there will be..."Anyway... :-?
"., who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit."This would be a good time to maybe see if Bro. Ron could help us out in understanding the relationship of 'walking in the Spirit' and the paraclete- the one that walks along side. This seems to speak to relationship. Many illusions to God walking with us in Abraham My Friend come to mind. Hmmm. Walking with God. Walking in communion. Able to 'look into the eyes' so to speak with a clearness of conscience. It is so relationship based. God Bless,-Robert
MikePart of the reason that the verse is not completed is due to questions about whether it was always just like this! Many modern versions won't have this last half of the verse. We are back into the territory of the Greek manuscript families here, but there is another reason why some question whether or not it should be here. How are we to understand the verse as it stands? Is it saying that 'no condemnation' is only the case for those who 'are walking according to the Spirit'? If so is this verse not teaching 'justification by sanctification'? Does God declare those just who 'walk in the Spirit' or does He 'justify the ungodly' who put their faith in Him? (Rom 4:5)Galatians 5:25 indicates the possibility that an individual may 'live in the Spirit' but not 'walk in the Spirit'. What would the legal position of such a person be? Would they be 'justified' or 'condemned'? These are mutually exclusive legal terms; it is 'either/or'. If the Romans 8:1 is saying that 'only' those who are 'walking in the Spirit' (and it is present tense) it would imply that our legal condition could keep on switching from 'condemnation' to 'justification' depending on the day!The question to be asked is "is 'walking in the Spirit' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation' or is 'believing faith' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation'? If it is the former we are on the tight-rope of the theology of Finney & Co. If it is the latter we are in the hands of the classic reformed position of 'justification by faith'. Of course, God will never condone an imperfect walk, but does he demand a perfect walk as a necessary condition of acceptance?
Of course, God will never condone an imperfect walk, but does he demand a perfect walk as a necessary condition of acceptance?I think it would be good at this point to gather in the passages of Galatians 5 to help us sort this out. What do we mean to 'walk after the flesh'? What is it to 'live after the flesh'? What is the behavior of those who are 'in the flesh'? When I think about 'flesh' I am thinking in terms of a life lived apart from the Holy Spirit. It seems to me that the following list in Galatians 5 is the only course a person would take without the Spirit of God. Here we read:Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are 'these': fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. (Galatians 5 ASV) What does it mean to 'practice such things'? Is the word of God telling us that one infraction of one item in this list constitutes not inheriting the Kingdom of God until it is repented of? Finney would have said yes. Not only yes to this list, but yes to any doubtful behavior. He did, however, make an exception in certain of his writings about times when one was overcome with temptation or the like and committed the sin out of character. However, he jumps right back into his hardline stance so it's hard to tell what he though would hapen. Moreover he believed if it was 'questionable' it was sin and therefor called the salvation into question. I cannot go that route. The list of Galatians 5 is what God calls 'works of the flesh.' I don't believe we are at liberty to just arbitrarily 'add' to it to keep people in bondage. Certainly there are ups and downs in our Christian life- but how far down do we go before we are no longer justified? To keep this simple I think personally that one has lost their salvation if the Holy Spirit has departed. If He has departed it would be evidenced by the rampant sin described in Galatians 5. If we are FULL of the Holy Spirit and walking in the Spirit then those things will be at a bare minimum. The enemy will attack the emotions when he cannot prevail against the affections. He wants us to allow the sun to go down on our wrath and give him a place with which to keep us in termoil and then strike the affections. Sort of like a one-two knock out blow. He attacks the 'flesh' and its needs and reactions to circumstances. He exploits the natural tendencies of man. God Bless,-Robert
The phrase 'incorruptible seed' comes to me. Suggest reading 1 and 2 Peter 1 (whole chapters) in Young's translation. Something solid about the word there, in the context of this discussion.http://www.olivetree.com/cgi-bin/EnglishBible.htmWhat does it mean to 'practice such things'?If I 'lie' I am a liar. If I 'steal' I am a thief'. If I die in Christ, the source of my lying and thieving has died, but I am faced with the old practices of lying and thieving to bring to an end by 'repenting', by practising telling the truth, by stopping myself from stealing. Is this walking in the Spirit, or, is it not 'walking in the flesh'? Is it a 'choice' between two natures, (the flesh or the Spirit?) or is it obedience to a new nature?Just in passing, Leanne Payne mentions in one of her books (sorry can't remember which) that she has prayed with some, for the healing of their will(power). Not to trivialise this legitimate consideration, (after which repentance and (choosing) righteousness may come as a joy, rather than a supreme effort) this is something anyone can pray for themselves, if the Lord seems to be prompting. Rather than every choice being a battle, it is easier to (finally) give up one's right to 'first choice', to Him, whose desire to lead us into only good choices, cannot be questioned.
Hi Ron,Part of the reason that the verse is not completed is due to questions about whether it was always just like this! Many modern versions won't have this last half of the verse. I had almost completely forgot about that, thanks for straighting me out here.A little digression there, part of the particular burr that wedge's in the saddle is from some that I know who have used this as an excuse for practically anything under the sun. That "in", in effect means 'license'... But that is a whole other can of worms. "Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh".The question to be asked is "is 'walking in the Spirit' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation' or is 'believing faith' the necessary condition of 'no condemnation'? If it is the former we are on the tight-rope of the theology of Finney & Co. If it is the latter we are in the hands of the classic reformed position of 'justification by faith'. Dare I say... both? That would be of course if we extracted out that one word... 'conditon'.How about 'effect'?Something on the order of "The effect of a believer who is not condemned, nor fullfiling the lust of his flesh is one who walks in the Spirit"Mike-y translation :-? What is the effect then? Talking to myself out loud here.... so I would have to add... and the Lord is well pleased with him.Of course it doesn't say that...It would be interesting to delve more into the how's and what have you's about the 'adding' of that section in Romans 1, or maybe we have before...think I am running out of head drive space :-)
Some interesting ideas here Mike. Pity they closed the canon before you got to think them. :-D Here is an accusation that was made of Paul “What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?” (Rom. 6:1, KJVS) Paul never tries to defend himself against this accusation but simply implies that if you can ask the question you haven't experienced what he is talking about.We have to preach a gospel in which grace is so absolutely the gift of God that technically it would be possible to bring the accusation of Rom 6:1 against us. There is nothing wrong with the logic of the question only the heart of the questioner.Paul's earlier statement in Rom 5 referring to a 'God who justifies the ungodly' still takes my breath away!
Br. Robert wrote:I tend to take a different line on this topic. I believe that if a person were genuinely born again that the chances of them ultimately being lost are very slim. J. Vernon McGee used to say that the 'sons' always return to the father's house and the hogs return to the hog pen. No matter how much you dress up a hog- he is by nature still a hog. Spray perfume dress him up and he is still a hog. On the other hand, no matter how muddy the son may get he is by nature still a 'son.' The son will come to himself if he is really a son. He is never at home in the muck and the mire. There are some anomalies to this view for sure- but by and large I believe it to be so.This particular story was the reason for my leaving the church I attend once again. My pastor taught similar to what you have stated here. Yet what does Scripture say?Luke 15:31 “And he said to him, ‘Son, you are always with me, and all that I have is yours. 32 It was right that we should make merry and be glad, for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found.’ ”Listen to the condition of the prodigal son..."for your brother was dead and is alive again, and was lost and is found." This Scripture does not conflict with any other Scripture. This is saying the same things as when Paul writes:Col. 1:21 And you, who once were alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now He has reconciled 22 in the body of His flesh through death, to present you holy, and blameless, and above reproach in His sight— 23 if indeed you continue in the faith, grounded and steadfast, and are not moved away from the hope of the gospel which you heard, which was preached to every creature under heaven, of which I, Paul, became a minister. Paul warns us that one must continue in the faith. What does it mean to continue in the faith?In ChristJeff
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