GODLY / UNGODLY,....

Hi Elizabeth,

Psa 1:1 Blessed is the man that walketh not in the counsel of the UNGODLY, nor standeth in the way of SINNERS, nor sitteth in the seat of the scornful.

1Tim 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the UNGODLY and for SINNERS, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,

Jud 1:15 To execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which UNGODLY SINNERS have spoken against him.

We have these 3 divisions:
Ungodly
Sinners
Ungodly Sinners

Ahh, that's too bad. Sorry to hear that.

Hi Elizabeth,

I do agree that godliness is the operation of God in our lives. Godliness is not something we can manufacture.

The character of Christ is godliness and we are dependent on Him and His life in us. Before we were regenerated we were dependent on our old father the devil and produced ungodliness. After, regeneration and filling of the Holy Spirit, we are dependent on Jesus Christ whose spirit is the Spirit of Holiness.

Godliness is only the result of the expression of Jesus Christ in our lives. We are vessels, temples and cups. As Milton Green used to say, "we are cartons".

"Great is the mystery of godliness" (1 Tim 3:16).

Godliness is never the result of man's attempt to be like God or imitate Christ. The Christian life of godliness is not imitation but MANIFESTATION..."the life of Jesus manifested in our mortal bodies" (II Cor. 4:10-11)

Why does the Bible tell us to "follow after...godliness" and "exercise thyself rather unto godliness"? (I Tim 4:7 and 6:11). It is simply following after Jesus. Listening to Him, abiding in Him and to abide once must obey. No abiding without obedience.

Religion thinks it is something we do and ends up with a "form of godliness but denying the power thereof" (2Ti 3:5)

The self effort of religious works will never generate godly character (godliness).

Only as the Person of Jesus Christ is active in a Christian life will they have the "working of His Power" (Eph 3:7) sufficient to reign in life through Jesus Christ. (II Cor 12:9 and Rom 5:17,21).

Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; (II Cor 3:5)

God is the only source of all godliness and only the Lord Jesus Christ can live the Christian life. The same godly life that He lived while on earth is the life that He wants to live in us. Only by the "obedience of faith" (Rom 1:5; 16:26), listening to His voice and being ready to receive His words and obey them will we allow Him to function within and through us, expressing His godliness.

Great also is the Mystery of Iniquity where once we allowed the Devil to function in and through us manifesting his character and ungodliness.

When Adam sinned and lost the life of God, he ceased to be in the image of God and his entire soul (personality) became available to the devil and the devil surely and wholly exploited Adam producing a race of ungodly men, manifesting ungodly character.

Once people understand the mystery of iniquity they are able to understand the mystery of godliness. The principles involved are identical. When we act in obedience to the Truth (Jesus Christ) then godliness is manifested, but when we act in obedience to Lies (Liar, Devil), then ungodliness is manifested.

Everyone (saint or sinner) has a spiritual father and cannot stand independent because man was made to be dependent, spiritually and manifests the spiritual character of his (F|f)ather.

Julius21,

Your reply is classic textbook stuff, it is widely held as right, it is preached in every town, I have personally read it in one form or another in hundreds of books, it seems so neat and tidy, it seems to make perfect sense, but it is wrong. And believing it is the major reason the church is powerless, in a mess, can't get arrested for throwing bricks through windows, puts people into bondage, sucks any hope of joy out of the Christian life and why God never shows up.

Since you have opposed every single word I have posted on sermonindex I expect this to be no different. So no need to reply to me I simply encourage you to dig into everything you said and revisit the entire idea, toss out the party line and see what you find.

There is so little said in the Bible about Adams fall and God intended the truth be mined in prayer and humility. But the real story is life changing. I literally watch chains of bondage fall off believers whenever the Lord brings His wounded to me. Be blessed and dig my brother.

marcmc

Marc,

You already know I do not ascribe to Calvin's teachings so of course we disagree on many things and obviously will continue to. No need to keep reminding me, either unless of course you have some other motive. Then I suppose you will continue.

Nothing to do with Calvinism. It has to with Adam and what really happened in the garden. I don't hold Calvin's opinion on it.

Ask yourself this simple question. Why would God say so little about the event that had such a massive impact on man. That is why Paul calls it the Mystery of Iniqiuty.

It is the second most important event in all of scripture and yet God the Holy Spirit only gives us a handful of versus. But it is the source of everthing that followed. All things must begin at the beginning and everything else follows that line. But God only throws down a bit of scratch. He is brilliant.

marcmc

It is not as hidden as you think it is. Where have you been digging?

1 Corinthians 2:10-12
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

That's how He does it.

All I said was your first post in this thread is full of error, you don't thnk it is so be well. I did what I was told.
marcmc

Like all of us, you are free to express your opinion. I prefer the opinion of the Scriptures.

Eph 2:2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, THE SPIRIT THAT NOW WORKETH IN THE CHILDREN OF DISOBEDIENCE.

John 8:44 YE ARE OF YOUR FATHER THE DEVIL, AND THE LUSTS OF YOUR FATHER YE WILL DO. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin IS OF THE DEVIL; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

Can man stand independent, apart from God or Satan? The Scriptures do not offer a third alternative.

The Mystery of Godliness is "Christ in you".

The Mystery of Iniquity, for us "cups, vessels and branches", is the opposite as the scriptures attest.

Mat 12:33-34 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.

P

Thank you, Elizabeth.

Jesus was very clear when he spoke of demons. They are all referred to as Satan not only by Jesus, but by Peter and Paul and other apostles.

When He spoke to Peter, He knew Satan was not sitting on Peter's shoulder. We don't believe that a devil sits on one shoulder and an angel on the other. Peter knew very well from his experience that all demons are referred to as Satan, the deceiver and liar and that is why he ask Ananias why Satan had filled his heart to lie to the Holy Spirit.

Paul knew this too. When he spoke to King Agrippa concerning the Gospel to turn many people "from the power of Satan unto God".

Jesus had just cast a devil out of a man in Matt 12:22. And the Jews accused Him of "casting out devils by Beelzebub, the prince of the devils."

You see, even the Jews knew there were many devils.

Jesus tells us that "If Satan cast out Satan, he is divided".

Here we see that Jesus Christ refers to all "devils" as Satan.

Jesus often referred to devils as Satan. He spoke of a woman "whom Satan hath bound" for eighteen years; and "then entered Satan into Judas". Paul spoke of "delivering such a one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh" and "lest Satan should get an advantage of us, for we are not ignorant of his devices".

Were Paul and Peter ever accused of thinking Satan was omnipresent? I don't recall that they were.

Paul's salutations to the church at Rome:

Rom 16:20 And the God of peace shall bruise Satan under your feet shortly. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.

I look forward to continuing this study with you, Elizabeth.

Grace and peace to you and anyone else who joins.

by marcmc on 2015/9/13 13:10:33

Julius21,

The third alternative is the first Adam, but of course you have an omnipresent Satan.

If I made Satan "omnipresent" then Paul, Peter and Jesus did, too. See my response to Elizabeth.

The first Adam was not an independent self. He did not stand apart from God, (his merciful and loving father) until he sinned, then he was a child of the devil and he was sold into sin/slavery to a merciless, and hateful father.

Nope,

marcmc