Gathering His people | SermonIndex

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dolfan Sep 8, 2015

In Jeremiah 23 God says to Jeremiah that in the days of the Righteous Branch, God will gather His people from all the nations where He had driven them.

Now I am weak minded and weak sighted. I do not understand many, many things. So, I am not expounding so much as asking. We are still in the days of the Righteous Branch. Jesus is the blessed and only potentate. It seems to me....seems....that Jeremiah 23 speaks of Israel here and not the church. The church has not been driven in judgment but scattered in mission.

If Jer. 23 speaks of Israel, naturally, then we might pay closer attention to it. Little more than half of world Jewry resides in the Unted States. What kind of work does God do to draw Israel out of the nations to gather in the land again? He says in Isaiah 11 that He will set His hand a "second time to recover the remnant of His people ... from the four corners of the earth" and in doing do He will "raise an ensign" or "signal" or "banner", being "the root of Jesse". This signal will be for more than Jews, but as Isaiah says in ch. 11 and as Paul exposits in Romans 15:12, "the Gentiles".

As the leaven of the gospel of the kingdom goes through the Earth, and it is, let's be urgent in praying for laborers to enter the harvest in America. Perhaps there are only gleanings left here, I don't know. If there is still to be a drawing of Jews to the land in Israel, I would be at a loss to explain why many of them would not be leaving America for Israel since still a majority or near majority of Jews live here. But, true to His Word, the return of Jews to that land is accompanied by the raising of the "banner" who is Jesus. Isaiah and Paul place together in time the drawing of Jews and of Gentiles to Him, and visibly a return to the land. At least that is how it looks to me.

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proudpapa Sep 8, 2015

I was strongly taught the pretrib rapture and Israels crucial role in prophecy. I always had high doubtes in the pretrib rapture view.

but only recently have I considered that perhaps Israel, naturally does not have much of a crucial role in prophecy.

The works of Philip Mauro is what have caused me to start considering the idea that there 'is only one Israel of God””comprised of both Jews and Gentiles who are children of Abraham through their faith in Christ.'

Though that view is deeply hated and very misconstrued by its opponents, It does appear to be the historic understanding held by the 'early Christians, the Anabaptists, the Reformers, and in fact all Christians before the 19th century.'

I still am interested in this book : http://www.scrollpublishing.com/store/product3557.html

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SHMILY Sep 8, 2015

"What kind of work does God do to draw Israel out of the nations to gather in the land again?"
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Part of the answer to your question maybe in Jeremiah 16. Especially verse 16:

"Behold, I am sending for many fishers, declares the LORD, and they shall catch them. And afterward I will send for many hunters, and they shall hunt them from every mountain and every hill, and out of the clefts of the rocks."

(You can check out the context. ;) )

Perhaps the "fishers" lure or bring large groups ~ like those making alyiah now ~ and the hunters chase them from wherever they are.

"I would be at a loss to explain why many of them would not be leaving America for Israel"
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Aside from the fact it is human nature to stay where we are comfortable, many have worked for years to help support the nation of Israel. Now it is routine.

I don't believe the LORD is finished with the people or the land. He is a covenant keeping God. It is just that we are in the time of the Gentiles ~ the period between the 69th and 70 week of Daniel ~ until "the fullness of the Gentiles" is complete (Romans 11).

Just my somewhat disjointed thoughts.

REJOICE! =)
Mary

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dolfan Sep 8, 2015

I'm reading through Jeremiah as part of my yearly chronological read-through -- and I'm about a month behind. But, back to the point, I had read Jeremiah 16 over the weekend. The "many fishers" and "hunters" is a reference to the Chaldeans not letting Jews escape the coming judgment of conquest and exile. I read it that way and thought of no other real possibility; having read your post, Mary, I did look around a moment and see that a whole bunch of well meaning Christian commenters have gone off into the blue sky with allegorical views of Christians as fishing for and helping Jews in WW II and on and on. That's way too much to read into it, IMO.

That said, I stand with Paul's prayer for natural Israel that they might be saved. I believe that God has yet to display his final wrath on them for rejecting Jesus, and that His mercies to them for the last 2,000 years remain intact for now, thankfully. I'll leave that right there. :)

sermonindex Sep 8, 2015

Should Christians expect a mass conversion of Jews before the "second coming”?

Many Christians believe in such a scenario partly on the basis of Zechariah’s famous prophecy:
‘I will pour on the house of David, and on the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplication; and they will look to Me whom they have pierced; and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for his only son, and will grieve bitterly for him, as one grieves for his firstborn. In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadad-Rimmon in the valley of Megiddo. And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart; The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart; All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.’ (Zechariah 12:10-14)

But what is "the mourning of Hadad-Rimmon in the valley of Megiddo” ? And why will Zechariah’s mourning take place among those "that remain … every family apart”? Unless we understand the prophetic allegory and the historic event alluded to, we can’t be sure of the prophecy’s fulfilment.

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God always judged the nations that were used as His sword against rebellious Israel. In this sense Zechariah 12 is consistent in its predictions with the precedents established in Israel’s earlier history with God’s judgments on Egypt and Babylon. The true judgment is not however in the temporal realm by military campaigns and the overthrow of dynasties ”“ as many carnal minded Christians still expect with reference to Zechariah 12 and other prophecies ”“ but by the gospel, which brings eternal judgment on all those who fail to submit to Israel’s King. That God’s judgment on Jerusalem would spill over on all the nations that were used against her is thus the correct interpretation of Zechariah 12, and is further depicted in the Book of Revelation as the bowls of God’s wrath poured out. But that judgment culminates at the end of the mortal age when the saints inherit the new heavens and the new earth, and those who have resisted God’s grace are forever removed from His presence. All this flows as a natural consequence from the events of Jesus’ crucifixion and the destruction of Jerusalem in AD70. No further and yet future onslaught against the earthly city is necessary in order for Zechariah’s prophecies to be fulfilled.

Read the article, in context.

http://www.messianicgoodnews.org/they-will-look-to-me-whom-they-have-pierced-zechariah-12/

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proudpapa Sep 8, 2015

RE: ///Should Christians expect a mass conversion of Jews before the "second coming”? ///

I do not think that is what is being implyed, A revival may well breakout and many Jews may become Christians before the "second coming.

But dispensationalists seem to believe that the entire Jewish race, are being reconstituted into an earthly nation, for the purpose of being saved in a future dispensation.

edit: clarity