Warning: False Testimonies of Brother Yun, the "Heavenly Man"

Dear saints,I have received an open letter jointly signed by reputable Chinese church leaders (many of whom appeared in the CD, The Cross In China), concerning Brother Yun's false testimonies (whose real name is Zhengying Liu).The authenticity of this letter can be verified at http://www.jesusreturn.net where pictures of house church leaders signing the document are shown.The following is the translated script of the Open Letter (posted on the aforementioned website). The quality of the translation is poor, however, the main points of the letter is readily seen. The image of the original document with signatures and other references can be found on the website.I urge my fellow Christians in the West to exercise discernment on this matter and to warn other Christians who might be deceived by this not so "heavenly man". Agent001P.S. According to the newsletter of Christian Communication Inc. of Canada (http://www.ccican.org -- Chinese site), most of the money offerings received by the "Back to Jerusalem" movement associated with Brother Yun are unaccounted for and in light of the fact that churches overseas are uncritically accepting Yun's testimonies, the Chinese churches are prompted to appeal for spiritual discernment with an Open Letter.An Open Letter of Love Advice from Leaders & Co-workers of Chinese Churches To Worldwide Christian ChurchesBeing a member of churches in China (or Chinese churches) and of body of Christ, by inheriting the teaching and the spirit of Mr. Wang Mingdao, we feel responsible for announcing this love warning to all non-Chinese churches and believers: The churches in China grow up by suffering blood and tears. Even through poverties and persecutions, they still stand firm and not moved. After China were opened, great human resources and financial aids from overseas did help churches, but these abundant physical resources and money also made some ministers to fall into the snares. According to some objective investigation and evidences, we are able to carefully speak the truth in love: The Heavenly Man-- Liu Zhenying, who is supported by Xu Yongze of the Born again Group in Henan and pretty active in West right now, is a man who makes false testimony and deceives Western churches. He misuses the name of God; He knows the truth but still sins purposely. He is a black sheep (Hai qun zhi ma) in churches of China. We emphasize on unity in Christ. We also agree with the fact that Chinese people to spread Gospel to the whole world, including back to Jerusalem. But we can't just have these understandings and to ignore the essential character of spiritual life in cross. We oppose the way that Heavenly Man boasts and lies to strive for fame, wealth and status by making use of the name "suffering, unity & mission". We can't agree with Heavenly Man. He has no qualification to represent churches in China to speak. We sincerely give this advice to churches, organizations & believers overseas or within the country---to discern carefully and not to be misled by propaganda. We also exhort all groups and individuals who support Heavenly Man to take your courage and to turn from mistakes. We persuade Heavenly Man to stop the spiritual deception thoroughly and to apologize openly. Otherwise, it will be a dreadful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. We appeal to all believers & co-workers to intercede for thousands who has been deceived or misled, pray for God's healing falls upon the wounded. Ask the Lord to help them to learn warnings from this lesson, out of the disappointment and still keep their enthusiasm and love. Pray to the Lord to give them discernment and wisdom, and truly become the alert watchmen/intercessors, and finally to be a blessing to China.25 October 2004 signed: Allen Yuan, Mrs. Yuan (Liang Huizhen), Yuan Pinghu, Yuan Fule, Moses Xie Moshan, Mrs. Xie (Chen Ailan), Weng Bin.04 November 2004 signed: Samuel Lamb (Lin Xiangao), Chen Guancheng etc.

Edit: Upon further reflection I have deleted my comments here until more information can be gathered.In Christ,Ron

First off Agent001 has been with us here for quite some time and has been not one given to just casual conversation and would have quite a bit more knowledge in this area, a perusal back through the forum would bear this out.So lets hold off with the sharpness there, also can't totally blame you Neil for not being aware of this as it is certainly a pretty heavy accusation.My sense is to not let this go off the rails as it may take some time before the truth comes out and hopefully we would consider prayer that this indeed would be the result here. Selah.

Agent001 does speak the language. He is Chinese. Not that this alone would confirm the post. The 'lionising' (making a star of) Christians from one place in another almost always causes these kinds of strife.

I find it horriably telling that they don't actually cite any instances of the "Heavenly Man's" deceptions. They just broad brush him without actually naming any charges.

In what I have seen of this man yun, he speaks of god and the lord Jesus christ and points to him. I believe we here in america need to pray more read more of the word and follow as the lord leads. " TO THE LAW AND TO THE TESTIMONY: if they speak not according to this WORD, it is because there is no light in them. Isaih 8:20 If we must speak about someone lets speak to God about them the one who knows all and see's all.

I heard Brother Yun speak 2 weeks ago, and I was greatly disappointed. He talked of God's power to heal, but did not mention grace, atonement, redemption, sin, righteousness or repentance. I was sad that he then had an alter call, but with no clear message about what people were coming forward for. It's true that some of what he said may have been lost in the translation, but I still found it wholly disappointing.

I believe it’s no coincidence that Sam shared this with us here on SI. Thank you brother!This coming Friday I’ll be attending a 4-day-conference where Brother Yun will be one of the main speakers. I read his book a while ago and was very much blessed by it. It encouraged me in my walk with God and even if this man truly is a deceiver no-one can rob me from the spiritual blessing it has had upon my life. I, no matter what, thank Jesus for this!I just thought it would be a good thing to give you some more inside. I have a friend who is personally acquainted with Samuel Lamb. She is Chinese and is befriended with brother Lamb. She has spoken in “his” church in Guangzhou several times. Through her I came to know Samuel Lamb (not personally!). I read his biography “Bold as a Lamb”. I do recommend this biography to anyone here on SermonIndex. You will meet the Master through this servant! It’s a true blessing. But well…why am I telling this. Well, while reading this book about Brother Yun I wrote my Chinese friend about it and shared how it was touching my life. She quickly replied and warned me for this deception. Her arguments were however strictly “subjective”, no facts and really rather speculative. Either she told me she would ask Samuel Lamb to write something about it or she said that he already was writing something about it, I don’t remember. Anyways, brother Lamb wrote an article on him.Brother Lamb says in his article: “The Heavenly Man”…cannot be called “a heretic” because we haven’t discovered clear errors in his teaching…it is more appropriate to call him “a big con man” for he has deceived a lot of Christian churches, especially in Europe and the United States”.This was my main objection to the arguments my friend gave me, saying that brother Yun is part of a sect and cheats with money etc. They’re merely human arguments, they don’t have anything to do with the things he teaches and I haven’t received any clear evidence about him yet. I personally was blown away by his clear views on the “western church” and how he addresses it. Just awesome. But, my friends…I do consider Brother Lamb as my brother in Christ and this man is a true and sincere believer. Therefore I will be cautious and ask everyone to be like-minded, not only in this matter but in all our “reliance” on people. Let us not too quickly condemn either brother Yun or Brother Lamb and others, but may it be an incentive to focus our eyes solely on Jesus. God says: “Seek Me and live” (Amos 5:5). It doesn’t say: “Hear mister So-and-so preach and you shall live”. I thank God for godly preachers and men who encourage and stimulate me in my personal walk with Jesus Christ, but they cannot and may not become my “Holy Ghost”, so to speak. “It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.” (Psalm 118:8) Even if all preachers go astray and fall away from the truth I am able (and may God give me the grace) to stand firm, because Christ is my foundation. I have to think of Psalm 91:7 where it says: A thousand may fall at your side, And ten thousand at your right hand; But it shall not come near you.Who or what is your foundation? Your pastor? The sermons you hear here on SI? Your friends? Are you always waiting for words of God from others instead of reading the Word yourself and get one from God personally? Or is it Jesus only? Are you standing on the Rock? I don’t know if I’ll be attending the service in which he’ll be preaching. If you read this, the best thing you can do is pray! Let us not follow men, but Jesus… “Let no one boast in men. For all things are yours: whether Paul or Apollos or Cephas, or the world or life or death, or things present or things to come--all are yours. And you are Christ's, and Christ is God's.” (1 Cor 3:21-23)To give you some more inside on the conference I and William (_Disciple_) will be attending. Gary Wilkerson and Brother Andrew will be preaching there as well! Isn’t that awesome?! We’re really looking forward to it and desire to meet Christ since He alone is the main Speaker at the conference! May God work His works!“Do not quench the Spirit…test all things; hold fast what is good” (1 Thes 5:19,21)Your brother in Christ,Paul

Thanks Paul,Good perspective there. Will you promise us an update from the conference? Sounds like a wonderful realm of possibilities there...

Agent 001 wrote;I have received an open letter jointly signed by reputable Chinese church leaders (many of whom appeared in the CD, The Cross In China), concerning Brother Yun's false testimonies (whose real name is Zhengying Liu).Sam, I'm wondering if you could give us some more detail concerning this letter you received. How did you come to receive this letter and do you personally know the people who wrote it? More importantly, do the people who wrote it personally know Brother Yun?I honestly would like to know more about this man and the back to jerusalem ministry. I have not given any money to his ministry but I would like to support it if indeed it is worthy.Like DezCall, I have been spiritually blessed by Brother Yun's book but after some reflection on this subject I have to admit that my initial reaction to your post was to reject your warning simply because I have read the book and even passed it along to others and was selfishly afraid of looking bad before others by having been "duped" by a con-man. I apologize and ask your forgiveness and the Lord's.DezCall wrote;Who or what is your foundation? Your pastor? The sermons you hear here on SI? Your friends? Are you always waiting for words of God from others instead of reading the Word yourself and get one from God personally? Or is it Jesus only? Are you standing on the Rock?Thanks for this wonderful reminder Paul! The Lord has clearly been showing me lately how much need there is for each Christian to have a well of our own freely flowing in our own backyard, so to speak. When the crises come in our lives, we need our own anointing, we cannot stand on the anointing of others.In Christ,Ron

Have just returned from our Sunday evening meeting where one of our number has just returned from visiting 'in-laws' in China. He referred to the pressure the house church movement was coming under to 'register'. Some have done so an some have not; this is causing some frictions between the saints. It occured to me that some of the info now leaking into the west may be partly coloured by these tensions. Just a thought.

Yes, I have a friend that is about to go to China for atleast one year (maybe longer) and thats what they have been telling her as she is in preperation to go. The government wants the house churches to register. The down side of them registering is that the government tries to limit where they can evangelise and can have influence on who is the pastor and what is preached...

Hi all,I am just a small brother in Christ, who is ethnically Chinese and currently resides in Toronto, Ontario. I speak fluently in Mandarin and Cantonese. I do have some personal acquaintances who are Christians in the house churches in southern China. I did not receive the original letter, I apologize if I gave such an impression. It was posted on a newsletter from Christian Communication Inc. of Canada (http://www.ccican.org -- Chinese site). The ministry focus of this organization is ministry to house churches in China and also to Chinese immigrants, especially scholars, in North America. I will provide their contact here for verification: 3880 Midland Ave., Units 2-4, Scarborough, ON M1V 5K4 Tel.: (416) 297-6540 Fax: (416) 297-6675 Toll-free#: 1-888-909-CCIC Email: ccic@ccican.com The copy of the letter published on the CCI Canada Newsletter resembles the one on http://www.jesusreturn.net. The Chinese church leaders featured on that website have appeared on the DVD now well-known among Christians in the west - "The Cross -- Jesus in China". (Those who own the DVD can easily verify this).From my own perspective, the sufferings and ministry of Pastor Samuel Lamb (who also signed the letter renouncing the "heavenly man") are well known among Chinese Christians and many in the West. He was one of the few house church leaders in China that Billy Graham visited during his trip to China. In contrast, I have not heard of Brother Yun until I heard news about him through western Christian media in the last few years. (Quite extraordinary, because I have been following news on the Chinese churches for years) In fact, according to the newsletter of CCI of Canada (which has been involved in ministry in China for 15 years), they did not know about this "Brother Yun" (really Zhenying Liu) until they started to receive inquiries from some western pastors. It would seem to me that "Brother Yun" is only a phenom in the West.Whether you accept what I have said or not, I think the call to discernment is always appropriate. Beware of sensationalism (a problem that manifests itself in the western churches in many different ways). Be zealous, but also wise.May God bless his Church in China!P.S. I wish I had used a different title, something like, "Chinese House Church Leaders Raised Concerns about Brother Yun".

Yes, I have a friend that is about to go to China for atleast one year (maybe longer) and thats what they have been telling her as she is in preperation to go. The government wants the house churches to register.I heard a recent visitor from China, whose wife is Chinese, comment that the Chinese Communists had 'learned' from the Russian Communists. The Russians decided the 'free' spirits of the Churches were dangerous and resolved to destroy them. The Chinese also fear the 'free spirits' but have decided that 'control' is better than outright attempts to destroy. Wicked wisdom!

PreachParsly wrote:The government wants the house churches to register. So which side is which in this drama of brother Yun?

A related article --Evangelicals Now coverage, "China: leaders distance themselves from 'the heavenly man'":http://www.e-n.org.uk/2004-12/2938-China-leaders-distance-themselves-from-the-heavenly-man'.htm

Thanks Sam and to all here...Showing forth great patience with all of this.

Brother Yun spoke here in Dublin last month and I must concur with another post here the gospel was not preached, even allowing for the translation. The church sponsoring the event are deeply into prosperity and most other recent additions to the gospel.I had not read his book but my wife and daughters had been impressed with the story, mainly his sufferings of which his survival is a miracle.The evening began with his interpretor retelling a story of the dead being raised by another brother. The dead man was a high official within the commuinist party but as no names can be given this becomes an accept on face value issue. Brother Yun then told his story. What struck me was just how parellel it was to the stories of Peter and Paul, complete with the miraculus opening of the prison and also Pauls many stripes and beatings. I am loath to not believe the brother but must say in my Spirit I had grave misgivings.What concerned me more was the descriptions of how they intend to train young christians in the practice of Accupunture and eastern massage as this would allow them to "lay hands " on people without them knowing and thus propel them into the Kingdom. I can find no ressonance with this in scripture and in fact hold that Accupuncture and most eastern medical practises are deeply rooted in the occult.By the time we got to the "altar call" I was decidely concerned. The altar call was very unspecific in that they were calling on 1. the unsaved 2. the backslidden 3. anyone who wanted inner healing 4 physical healing 5 any one with a non specific need. I know the Lord can and does minister accross all these areas but one was left with the feeling that the intent was to get as many people on their feet as possible for the cameras. This was backed by the local pastor speaking of "thousands coming forward" when in fact the entire audience was around 1300.My final impression was that either the brother was a con or had become conned by the churches in the west and been hijacked by their lust for celebrity. I would love to have had a contingent of Chinese Brothers all confirming each other.Anyway I think I have said enough I merely relate what I saw and heard. Paul