Christian Songwriting

In Halley's Bible Handbook, Mr. Halley mentioned being edified by congregational singing. Most of this stuff done today isn't given to congregational singing. A lot of the traditional hymns have been changed so that you can't sing them after they have been butchered by modern artist. Much of the new music isn't worth listening to. Instead of being seperate from the world many artist are just compromising there music to be user friendly with the world. Many of the people that do things like smoking and social drinking tell me that smoking and drinking help them to be accepted by others so they can witness to them. All we really need to witness is the Holy Spirit in our lives. We don't need to identify with the world we need to identify with Jesus. There was a day, just after being saved that I ask God to let me be able to sing like the congregation was singing. Being unchurched and just saved it was beautiful. Congregational singing ministered to me as a new born and was used along with preaching to show me that there really were people that believed in what the book says. There is something about the people of God singing and worshiping in one accord. In Christ,GaryE

Halley's Bible Commentary says, "Congregational singing, next to Bible teaching is the BEST FEATURE of a religious service." Maybe so, but look what God said: " I despise your religious feasts; Away with the noise of your songs! I will not listen to the music of your harps. "Amos 5:23So, really, it would seem that the condition of the heart is the only criteria that God considers. I believe that there has always been a vast amount of mediocre Christian songs written throughout the ages - along with some great ones. Only the best ones stand the test of time. Not all music produced these days is bad. What about: "All I Once Held Dear" by Graham Kenrick. But even then, God may not be impressed if those who sing it are only pretending to be godly, but are really living a lie.Diane

Gary,You stated it well. I, too love congregational singing. In fact the older I get the more I like it and the less I enjoy groups who perform for the audience. There is a lot to be said for the entire audience to have the privilege of singing. I think it was D. L. Moody who believed the music was just as important, if not more, then the sermon. He had Ira Sankey serve as his song writer and what powerful songs he wrote. Good music serves as a sermon in a nutshell...set to music so it will stick in your conscience like a popcorn kernal stuck between your teeth!Blessings,Ginnyrose :-D

Ladies and gentlemen, I am sick of it.This is one of the most damnable things I have ever seen.

ginnyrose said:There is a lot to be said for the entire audience to have the privilege of singing.OK, I can buy that.GaryE said: Most of this stuff done today isn't given to congregational singing. A lot of the traditional hymns have been changed so that you can't sing them after they have been butchered by modern artist.Yeah, gimme proof.GaryE said: Much of the new music isn't worth listening to. Instead of being seperate from the world many artist are just compromising there music to be user friendly with the world. Well, whos to say the song wasn't written for me to sit down with and play on my piano, or play on my guitar? And once again, what proof? When did we get the privilege of deciding what style of music is good or bad for the entire world?GaryE said: Many of the people that do things like smoking and social drinking tell me that smoking and drinking help them to be accepted by others so they can witness to them.Jesus drank. And you must never have met any of the many many many people I know who witness effectively and are completely alcoholically abstinent - and thrive on CCM, classic worship, etc. You wanna group categorize like this? Really? Its not worth it, you will get burned.GaryE said: All we really need to witness is the Holy Spirit in our lives. We don't need to identify with the world we need to identify with Jesus.THIS does not identify with Jesus - with its implications. I can say that certainly, and with absolutely no personal remorse. Stand alone it is a perfectly legitimate statement.Slightly off the beaten path: first of all, you must have never heard some of the more popular Contemporary Christian Music. How about Blessed Be Your Name.Blessed be your name in the land that is plentifulWhere the streams of abundance flowBlessed be your nameBlessed be your nameWhen I'm found in the desert placeWhen I'm lost in the wilderness,Blessed be your nameBlessed be your namewhen the sun's shining down on mewhen the world's all as it should beblessed be your nameBlessed be your nameOn the road marked with sufferingWhen there's pain in the offeringBlessed be your name(Chorus)Blessed be the name of the LordBlessed be your nameBlessed be the name of the LordBlessed be your glorious name(Bridge)You give and take awayYou give and take awayMy heart will choose to sayLord, blessed be your nameThis song is an absolutely wonderful congregational arrangement. It also sounds pretty neat when sung alone, or performed by a small group.Of course, some people don't like CCM. OK, fine, I can buy that. Don't listen to it - its a fairly simple prerogative.But again, how about this scenario: I'm playing my guitar, solo, and I start singing songs like Getting Into You by Reliant K. A song that was never meant to be sung by a congregation is now a completely personal prayer, as well as worship.Another thought, have you ever sat in a college level group who had corporate worship? Some of these songs that "can't be sung congregation-ally" can be, quite easily - and we do. In fact, my church does sing quite a few contemporary songs. Its a baptist church. We sing older songs and hymns, too. Another church I attended was almost all contemporary in worship, and the church numbered well over 600 in a smaller town not noted for much long term presence. It was growing and there was fruit there.What both of these threads have been about is that people don't like the way people worship. Well, people worship in different ways. Most of us don't worship all that differently in any regard, but you don't like our music. Well, I'm going to say it straight. It is perfectly legitimate. Christians throwing random accusation around without proof, without (amazingly) any credible information - at other Christians?!? Not one bit of proof at all, just wild speculations and completely random ideas. And it looks to me like just for a few pats on the back. You know what the bulk of the separation is between us? Age. Ten years. Not a whole lot of time. We are adults, we discern, we reason. Trust us.Just as I posted on the other thread (and its adapted into an absolutely wonderful contemporary song, by the way), "I'll become even more undignified than this." Let me dance before my Lord. Just because you don't like it, there is no reason why my God does not love it. It glorifies Him.You kind folk probably don't understand how much more I can easily write on this subject, how horribly honed this reply is. I have scenarios from my own life, I have scenarios from the lives of others - from India, from Africa, from Mexico. I have scenarios from the lives of my friends, from the lives of quite a few people I don't get along with. I have hundreds of scenarios that have actually happened.And if somebody want to start a new thread because I have challenged this again, I guess I'll step back and let you get pat on the back. It feels good. I've done it myself.Dorcas wrote:Did you notice there are two threads going on this topic. I'd be interested in your response to the other thread, if you have time to look at it again?Thank you. Personally, I see a likeness, but as I expressed to Compton privately, there are several things that part me from that viewpoint. I'd need a much better and more thorough explanation which would not be prudent on either of these threads.To wrap up:Like I said, this is one of the most damnable things I have ever seen. Now you know why. I figured I would wait until my anger subsided until I posted my reasons. I also chose not to pull punches or mince words. This reply bites back, pretty hard. I am not and will not be sorry for any toes I step on. I am standing up for a great many people here, people of the faith. People in the field, people you have never met. My friends - me. It is a simple matter, there is no reason to condemn us because you don't like all the music we choose to work with. We are not hellions, demon-possessed. Some of them are attempting to fulfill the great commission by leaving behind brothers, houses, careers. It really seems like an easy thing to say - Contemporary Christian Music is bad. Well, we put our hearts into it. We write it. You attack it, you attack people, the singers, the authors, their inspiration. Attack a piece when and where it is needed, hone that dagger. There is no reason to cut off a man's head when he has been bitten by a snake in the foot. Especially when all you have to go on is a completely servicable leather boot.

PT,I hope my comments about the Psalms, which are niether here nor there regarding CCM, didn't come across like I'm anti-contemporary music. Contemporary is just a word that is relative to the times...(that's why we call it contemporary!) All music was "contemporary".For the record, I'm involved in ministry that uses some rock, blues, as well as contemporary praise and worship. I call it the "Skynard to Vineyard" format. 8-) I'm not afraid to tell people that, though I know that many would disown me for it. Quite frankly, many of our churches have a way of transforming every delicous flavor of humanity into processed wonder bread. As an artist, I've learned to behave a certain way to accommadate the white collar corporate business culture that professionally manages most of our churchlike enterprises:-D It seems that many of the best art forms, like blues, are born from different Christian experiences, only to be kicked out of the congregation for being too different. "During the 20's, bluesmen like Blind Lemon Jefferson, were singing songs like "I Want to Be Like Jesus in My Heart" and "All I Want Is That Pure Religion," and "He Arose From the Dead", but because the texture was too unfamiliar it was rejected by the mainstream church. Now the blues is more or less a secular form. Gospel is becoming a secular form too.Last night, I took my son to hear a terrific blues/jazz organist who was in town. Awesome music...My son wants to study music and in the interest of exposing him to the best I have to sadly go outside of the church. (In the past century, the pursuit for excellence has become equated with worldly ambition...thankfully Bach, Handel, and Beethoven lived in earlier times) As I was listening with my son to some unbelievable keyboard chops I couldn't help but wonder in humility... That humans are given a wonderous capability to make such remarkable music is a testimony to the love of God...too bad we are wary of it. In any case, it would be great to see the best examples of art brought back to serve it's highest purpose which is worship.Ahh, it no big deal though. If the Holy Spirit would be welcome in our assemblies, we could sing Yanky Doodle Dandy for worship. He doesn't need our craft to do His will. I just think it would bless the Lord if we played our very best for Him.MC