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What About The New Testament Commands?

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

So New Testament commands have their function, just as the Old Testament commands had their function as a tutor to lead us to Christ. But the commands are not the meat. They are the milk. The Holy Spirit's role is to bring us to a complete knowing of who Christ is in us and how Christ lives as us. When that has been done, He will fulfill the commands through us (Romans 8:4). But it will be His living, not our striving.

Knowing Christ in us - knowing that the gospel is 100 percent grace, that God does it all - frees us from the various labors that bogged us down for so many years. We thought these labors were our part, but we were wrong.

We can quit trying to be good. Our attempt just brings us despair, anyway, because we find out we can't do it. We are free from the facade of pretending that we can pull it off.

We can stop being religious. Jesus wasn't religious. He experienced life from the Father. The religionists wanted to kill Him, and did. We have as much religion today as they did back then. If we don't have a complete understanding of the grace of God, we will revert back to religion for our answer. We will use religious activity to say something about us, to make us acceptable to God, ourselves, and others. But when we see that Christ is formed in us, we're no longer religious. If God places us in a certain religious system (and He has with me), fine. But that doesn't mean we have to be religious. God has freed us from that.

We can stop trying to crucify ourselves. The old us is already dead. In the unseen and eternal realm, that's a done deal. But Christians have been trying to crucify themselves for the last 2000 years. As I always say, if you could crucify yourself, you'd crucify the wrong thing. We have something we want to get rid of for God's glory - a personality trait or some other displeasing thing. And He is shouting, "No, no, no, no! What you've got is for My glory. That's what presses you into Me. You want to get rid of it so you'll look good for Me. I will crucify in you what's displeasing to Me, and I will magnify in you your weakness so I can be strong through it."

If God does it all, do we have any role to play? Absolutely. As I said earlier, our part is to be willing. Paul wrote, "work out your salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure" (Philippians 2:12-13). God is at work in us to choose and to perform His good pleasure. Our part is not to do it. Our part is to be willing. Our willingness is expressed as faith or trust. "I am willing for You to be living Your life through me this day, and I am trusting You to do it." Life for the believer operates by faith, not by self-effort.

Sometimes people hear the full message of God's grace and respond, "But doesn't God call us to be obedient?" Yes, there is an obedience God calls us to. Paul called it the obedience of faith (Romans 1:5). You obey by believing. You became a believer through the obedience of faith. You believed that Christ died for your sins. You having died with Christ works the same way as Christ having died for you. In both cases, you have to put faith in an unseen and eternal truth before you begin to see it operate in your life.

The work of faith is not to try to do the dying. The work of faith is to recall that the old you did die and to live out of that fact. We remember and count on the revelation fact. If it's not a revelation fact, then you are striving to get hold of something you think you don't have. There's no guilt in that, because what else can you do than strive for something if you don't know you have it? But the truth is we already have it. In the unseen and eternal, the old us is already dead. The faith life on our part occurs when the circumstances arrive that say, "The old you isn't dead," and we reply, "Yes, he is." But we aren't trying to accomplish it, because how can we accomplish something that's already accomplished?

Paul had another word for this process in Romans. He called it reckoning. Reckon is a banking word. It means you can count on money in the bank when you go shopping. You can write checks because there's money in the bank. Reckoning doesn't put money in the bank. But counting on the fact that there is money in the bank will free you to write checks. After explaining that we have died and been raised with Christ, Paul said, "Even so consider [reckon] yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus" (Romans 6:11).

You are dead to sin. You are alive to God. Reckoning doesn't make it so. It is already so. But reckoning allows you to live out of the fact that it is so.

God says you are a brand-new creature. The old one died. You don't look dead, you don't feel dead, you don't always act dead, but are you going to agree with God or are you going to debate Him? You may debate Him, but you're going to lose the debate. It's not worth it. So in faith you agree with God: "I read that, and it sounds too good to be true, but I'm going to believe that. I'm going to set my face to that."

The truth is that when we first trusted Christ, we were made perfect (Hebrews 10:14). We were complete in Him (Colossians 2:10). But who knew it at that point? So we thrashed about below the line in all of our soul activity, trusting in appearances instead of God's truth. All we ever do is catch up with the truth. Through our trust in God's revelation, His truth becomes our experience.

If we never get to the point where we appropriate truth, we are caught in a flesh trap forever. God has designed life so that our will, which He is at work in, has a role to play. We have to choose to trust Christ in us.

God spoke to me one time about that in Denver. I was playing golf, and I was my usual incorrigible self. I was so disgusted with the quality of my play that I had resorted to using only one club. I drove with it. I hit from the rough with it. I knocked balls out of sand traps with it. I putted with it. I didn't speak to the woman I was sharing a cart with. My wife was ahead of us with another lady. I was just going through the motions, waiting to get the miserable experience over with. On the back nine, my partner looked at me and said, "Jesus sure acts like a baby in you." And I thought, That's God.

I am in charge of whether Jesus looks like a baby in me or not. We must act on what God says, because we are involved with Him in this. We must choose to trust Him. Ours is a covenant relationship, and faith is the operating principle. "I speak to you, and you respond to Me. You trust Me." We are not lost in this union relationship. We are a vital part of it. God invites us to be cooperators with Him.

Humanity was created in the beginning with the capacity to receive the Tree of Life (which is Christ) and then to be an expresser of that life. That was God's original intent. But God purposely created us with the possibility of choice, and we reap the results of our choice. We never escape that - then or now. In God's love, He lets us choose. He says, "If you want to go the way of the world, go. If that's where your love and affection is, you go. But you'll reap what you have chosen."

Does that mean all is not of grace? No. God does do it all. Only He can live the life. And only He can work in us, enabling us to be willing cooperators with Him. But He has left us a role. Our role is availability. We are available to the Lord to live His life through us. What Mary said to the angel Gabriel applies to every believer: "Behold, the bondslave of the Lord; may it be done to me according to your word" (Luke 1:38). That's availability. Mary was willing. God was the one who did it.

Our availability releases God's ability. So we trust the Lord to do it through us.

"Lord, You want to love this person through me. I'm not feeling loving toward them. You do the loving through me. I make myself available for that."

"Lord, I'm feeling bitter toward this person. I choose to allow You to be forgiving through me."

"Lord, I don't feel like serving this person. But You do. You go the second mile through me."

Apart from Christ, humanity isn't going to do that. But that's the nature of the One who is in you. You can say to Him, "You do it. I am willing for You to do the willing. You take over here."

In the unseen and eternal realm of God, things that don't seem to be finished already are; things that don't seem to be complete already are; someone who doesn't yet appear to be mature or full-grown already is. Until we get revelation knowledge of that, we are going to try to accomplish these things by ourselves. Our point of reference is still going to be ourselves. We will keep trying to make it happen until we get a complete picture of the grace of God. Then we will see that it's already done. He does it. He does it all.

From THE REST OF THE GOSPEL by Dan Stone

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

very good tuc.

I am going to have to get that Dan Stone book.

add:this is the same message a Michael Pearls "sin no more" teachings.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

"Lord, You want to love this person through me. I'm not feeling loving toward them. You do the loving through me. I make myself available for that."

"Lord, I'm feeling bitter toward this person. I choose to allow You to be forgiving through me."

"Lord, I don't feel like serving this person. But You do. You go the second mile through me."

Actually, we still make the choice to forgive and not be bitter. Christ does not take us over. His Spirit in us gives us power to line up our will with His now and we make the conscious choice to perform His will, which is to walk in love.

Some of these thoughts by Dan Stone, can be misunderstood, as they are a bit nebulous. I think it should be explained as to what the Believer's responsibility in walking after the Spirit, is. Many misunderstand the scriptures and thus the working of God in them and how to walk with God.

Here are some examples of incorrect thinking:

Christ lives in me: Gal 2:20
Wrong concept: I do not live now at all.
Right concept: I live by the faith of the Son of God
Principle: God does not require self-effacement for His life to be manifested. God does not require your personality to cease to exist.

I am crucified with Christ. Gal 2:20
Wrong concept: I am dead and must practice death.
Right concept: I am dead with Christ and raised by His life to live.
Principle: God's purpose for the believer is not death but life.

God worketh in me. Phil 2:13
Wrong concept: I do not work, only surrender and God performs both the willing and the working.
Right concept: Since I have His power in me, I can do all things through Christ.
Principle: God never sets aside man's will. God never requires man to cease his activities before He can work.

"those who obey Him". Acts 5:32
Wrong concept: I must surrender my whole being to the invisible Spirit.
Right concept: I will obey God the Father through the Holy Spirit.
Principle: The Holy Spirit will not think through my mind, nor feel through my emotion, nor decide through my will. The Holy Spirit guides by divine impressions upon man's spirit.

"God's love...through the Holy Spirit." Rom 5:5
Wrong concept: I will not love. The Holy Spirit will give them God's love.
Right concept: I will love them as the Holy Spirit has shown me God's love. As you receive God's love you make a conscious choice to show God's love. You can close your heart anytime. Open your heart and choose to love and God will teach you how to love.
Principle: To love is a choice. We choose to love as God has loved us.

"In everything give thanks" 1 Thess 5:18
Wrong concept: I will accept all circumstances as the will of God.
Right concept: I will submit myself to God in all circumstances.
Principle: Submission to God and resistance to evil must work together. (James 4:7). We do not submit to the Devil. He will grind your will down into passivity. And do not "pray through" for experiences and feelings.

"when I am weak, them I am strong" II Cor 12:10
Wrong concept: I will, to be weak, so that I can be strong.
Right concept: The Believer does not choose weakness, but rather the weak believer shall have God's strength.
Principle: God is sufficient in whatever state you may be.

"Thy will be done"
Wrong concept: God wills for me, I do not have to choose.
Right concept: I choose to do His will.
Principle: God never substitutes His will for man's.

We need to know what we are choosing to understand...what we are choosing. When we decide, God will do everything to establish us in our choice, if it is according to His will. Pro 16:3.

Apart from Christ, humanity isn't going to do that. But that's the nature of the One who is in you. You can say to Him, "You do it. I am willing for You to do the willing. You take over here."

This is incorrect. He will not take over.

Our availability releases God's ability. So we trust the Lord to do it through us.

We have to be more than available. We have to be willing to act, to exercise our will and make a choice based on what the Lord is telling us. Our choice to do His will, releases His will through us.

Dan sends a lot of mixed messages: Here, he does say, "We must act on what God says". He speaks and we respond and we are cooperators with Him. This is true.

I am in charge of whether Jesus looks like a baby in me or not. We must act on what God says, because we are involved with Him in this. We must choose to trust Him. Ours is a covenant relationship, and faith is the operating principle. "I speak to you, and you respond to Me. You trust Me." We are not lost in this union relationship. We are a vital part of it. God invites us to be cooperators with Him.

From my previous statements, you can see that we are to be more than willing and Dan even says in a previous statement that we are to ACT, but then he says that God will take us over and He will do nothing of the kind. So, his message is fraught with inconsistencies and confusion, at least as far as I am reading it. Too much mixture for me.

I'm sure he doesn't mean to confuse, but it is hard to see that in his writings.

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

Is the : "wrong concept, right concept, principle" quotes your own doings that are specifically formated to refute error with the artical, Or is it a copy and paste from another source ?

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

by proudpapa on 2015/10/16 15:34:41
Is the : "wrong concept, right concept, principle" quotes your own doings that are specifically formatted to refute error with the article, Or is it a copy and paste from another source ?

My own, from a class I taught many years ago. Not specifically created for this article but applicable. I have used them mostly to refute cultish thinking and teach young believers.

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

Thank you,

I thought there where some good ideas, But I did not find that they pertained to the artical.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

You wrote
My own, from a class I taught many years ago.

I would like too see more of this teaching if possible.

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

What is the specific danger that you feel with the post's of Tucs ?

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

Unclear messages like this, with ambiguity and mixture can promote teaching that lead to passivity.

I'm sure Dan Stone didn't mean for it to be unclear and this is not an attack on him. I see it as an opportunity to bring some more thoughts/principles to the discussion to clarify the Christian walk.

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

RE:///Unclear messages like this, with ambiguity and mixture can promote teaching that lead to passivity.///

It may be that many misunderstand it as that, but I do not.

What I hear is how to recieve correct motivation for living out the Christian life.

obligation is not correct motivation

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

Why not write an article that in your opinion that is clear and post so we can discus it?

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

by tuc on 2015/10/16 16:29:55

Why not write an article that in your opinion that is clear and post so we can discus it?

That is actually a good idea, tuc. When I have time I could do that.

My response was a little article. I have more to add and it will complete it, for now. It is a big subject.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

THANKS! I look forward to seeing it.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

I have been infused by His love. His love is inside me. I have been Made a partaker of His DIVINE NATURE - LOVE!

THIS was all done by HIS DOING!!! I had nothing to with it.

My thoughts have nothing to with it. It is there even when I am asleep.

PERFECT LOVE!! FOREVER ACTIVE

Even faith works by love.

D
dolfan Oct 16, 2015

Obligation can be correct motivation. Love is a choice. Obligation is the duty of love lived out. When I don't "feel" lovely or loving and I do what is right because I know it pleases Him whom I love and I know that it works into my character what He wants to see reflected in me of Himself, that is obligation. I am tied to the doing of it in spite of myself because of Him who made me and for His glory.

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proudpapa Oct 16, 2015

obligation by definition : is an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound.

obligation is the the fruit of law not fruit of love.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

For now - I would add this to complete my "article". :-)

This should be read after my previous post (Right concept, wrong concept).

Join yourself unto the Lord with one heart (agreement), committing your will unto Him and desiring His will. He will give you a strong inner conviction and a "burning" inside to serve Him.

The Word of God teaches us to obey objective truth, God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. Obeying God, not some "impulse." When you get these impressions from God, your mind, will and emotions will be free, not so from Satan, you will feel an ungodly pressure (not being led by peace) to make a decision, usually emotional or you will feel that you must make the decision right this very minute. But, God will not move till your will functions. Wait for His peace, step out boldly, God will lead.

God wants to demonstrate His righteousness through us and bring us to the point where WE CAN work and WE CAN will. He cannot demonstrate His righteousness through a passive person.

Renewing of the mind will undo bad thought patterns and release cleansing. This is progressive deliverance from fallen thinking and will strengthen your will. Our subconscious mind is a reservoir of all past experiences. The enemy uses the subconscious mind to project thoughts to our conscious mind. Your will, will receive or reject these thoughts. But when your will ceases to resist Satan in any area, the Devil comes into control in that area of your life (stronghold). Renewing of the mind will bring strength to your will and release you from bondage. Through the renewing of your mind, the source of temptation will be eliminated. Jesus said, "He has nothing in Me." (John 14:30)

If your will is not working in a certain area, then usually the Devil is.

Sin, rejection, hurts, bitterness, pornography, jealousy, envy, etc, etc, open doors to Satan. Satan uses these and brings them up to produce certain responses. Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must resist these thoughts and past thoughts. The Devil wants to find a place in your subconscious and establish strongholds.

It is important for your will to be free because it is the governing body of the person. A spiritual person is one that is free to exercise his will. Passivity will open you to demonic oppression and paralyze your will, giving place to the Enemy who also wants to "work and to will" in you. You will be led by him instead of Christ. Remember, he wants to do what Jesus does, but he can only counterfeit.

The Holy Spirit gives gentle, peaceful impressions on our spirit, Satan projects erratic fear based impulses.
Jesus wants to have complete influence over us setting our soul free to respond freely to Him.

Satan wants to have complete influence over us bringing our soul into bondage and oppression enslaving us to do his will and to turn us this way or that as he desires.

Jesus does not want us to be passive, Satan does. Jesus actually requires in a man for him to have complete control of his mind, will and emotions (this is freedom). Satan, on the other hand has much more success with men who have passive souls (faculties). In that way, they will accept his counterfeit alternatives more readily and he can easily turn them as he wishes.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

by proudpapa on 2015/10/16 17:23:00

obligation by definition : is an act or course of action to which a person is morally or legally bound.

obligation is the the fruit of law not fruit of love.

A willing SACRIFICE, not obligation is the fruit of love.

Rom_12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the SACRIFICE of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.
Heb 13:16 But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such SACRIFICES God is well pleased.

Eph_5:2 And walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a SACRIFICE to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

I have been infused by His love. His love is inside me. I have been Made a partaker of His DIVINE NATURE - LOVE!

THIS was all done by HIS DOING!!! I had nothing to with it.

My thoughts have nothing to with it. It is there even when I am asleep.

PERFECT LOVE!! FOREVER ACTIVE

Even faith works by love.

All good statements.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

you wrote

"Sin, rejection, hurts, bitterness, pornography, jealousy, envy, etc, etc, open doors to Satan. Satan uses these and brings them up to produce certain responses. Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must resist these thoughts and past thoughts. The Devil wants to find a place in your subconscious and establish strongholds."

I do not agree - suppression NEVER works. How about the shield of FAITH that works by love that extinguishes all the darts of the enemy?

"Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must resist these thoughts and past thoughts."

God never intended you do do that - if you could do this by the power of your will then Christ died in vain.

sermonindex Oct 16, 2015

you wrote

"Sin, rejection, hurts, bitterness, pornography, jealousy, envy, etc, etc, open doors to Satan. Satan uses these and brings them up to produce certain responses. Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must resist these thoughts and past thoughts. The Devil wants to find a place in your subconscious and establish strongholds."

I do not agree - suppression NEVER works. How about the shield of FAITH that works by love that extinguishes all the darts of the enemy?

"Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must resist these thoughts and past thoughts."

Good point. Ok, lets go with resist. It is more correct and a Biblical term. But, in the same sentence, I believe I did say 'resist'. "Your will must be strong to suppress them. Your will must RESIST these thoughts and past thoughts."

Either word, the point is that you must exercise your will by the power of the Holy Spirit not the power of the flesh.

But, yes I do like to stay with "bible speak" so, "resist" is a much better word, because we are really resisting a foe. The flesh, sin and Satan should all be viewed as foes.



God never intended you do do that - if you could do this by the power of your will then Christ died in vain.

Wrong thinking. You do realize that we must engage our wills when fighting spiritual battles and walking with the Lord each day? "I CAN DO ALL THINGS through CHRIST WHO STRENGTHENS ME". Yet, it is Christ who is strengthening us (strengthening our will, our mind and our emotions).

Look at Paul using his will:
Rom_15:18 For I will not dare to speak of any of those things which Christ hath not wrought by me, to make the Gentiles obedient, by word and deed,

1Co_14:15 ...I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

You are sending an incomplete message to young believers. Of course, we use our will, only now we have a mind that is being renewed daily and the strength and love of the Lord who dwells inside us. We are to draw from His Spirit.

All glory and credit go to Jesus because without His Spirit you could do nothing.

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