More random Genesis musings

1). The three "men" who appeared to Abraham and Sarah are very mysterious. One of the three appears to be the Lord. Before they leave to go to Sodom, one (the Lord) says he needs to see for himself if the outcry against Sodom was deserved. Not sure why he would not already know. Two of the "men" go on ahead to Sodom and one (the Lord) stays behind to negotiate with Abraham. At Lot's house the men are called "angels."

2). Lot was pretty gross for offering his two virgin daughters to be ravaged by the men pounding at his door. He was considered righteous?

3). Why were the men/angels in such a rush to get Lot and his family out of there? It reads as if a timer was ticking down. The word "hurry" is used twice and there is great urgency. It says the Lord sent them to destroy the cities; Why could they not just wait until they were out before raining judgment?

4). Lot's daughters are also pretty gross.

5) Joseph's brothers are pretty rotten. Does this mean Jacob was not a great father?

Good thought.

I have always wondered what would have happened if Abraham had negotiated down to 4.

Point 1) the two angels were the two covering cherubs that cover the mercy seat, which also accompany Jesus where ever He is, they are also the messengers of God s judgement.

I will by pass the others but could comment on them, to say this one true story about your question 3

I was on a business trip to St Louis and as it happened my van broke down so I had it towed to the complex I was to setup at and work, nothing I could do but just go ahead and work for the weekend, that was a Thursday, I worked Friday Saturday and Sunday, my wife and I constantly in touch by cell phone and in prayer over this matter, Sunday morning the Lord woke me up early and had spoken a scripture to me and I called my wife and shared it with her, we both knew it would be alright. After the sportsman show had ended I loaded the van up laid hands on the motor and prayed got in and started it right up, on my way back through St. Louis it started to cut out and I spoke audibly, "stop this van and I will exit it and preach Jesus from one side of this city to the other(not that I am any kind of force to be reckoned with, lol), immediately it stopped acting up and ran fine, as I headed East I had intended to stop in Indianapolis and fellowship with a dear brother in the Lord, as I approached that City coming in from the West by the airport there was a sign that said get out of town fast(an advertisement for vacation traveling or something). I felt as if the Lord was talking to me, so I kept going, St Louis to Canton Ohio is a long drive but I did not get tired I drove straight through and did not have to stop for gas, it was as if the van was being pushed, 3 tanks out none coming back:) when I got back I dropped the van off at the mechanics and had my wife follow me and pick me up before I went home. The mechanic said the inside of the motor was gone, pistons fried valves fried would not start because it was impossible and couldn't have run in that condition. Besides the miracles I witnessed that week end the lesson I learned ....and suspect Lot understood...was this, there are times in our lives when the Grace and Mercy of God COME FOR A LIMITED TIME ONLY OFFER, had I stopped even to get gas the motor would have never ran again...I ended up scraping the van but never ever traveled with any degree of anxiety again.

As a side bar when talking about the end time events Jesus says something telling, Remember Lot s wife, maybe we are entering into a time when the call to salvation is pretty urgent and way more serious than what we may think.....just a thought

Great story D- thx for sharing it.

I do think it is true that when I truly am hearing something from the HS there is a definite sense of urgency and excitement.

Isn't the number 5 a symbol of a full quiver as to children? which would also be a outward picture of the fullness of blessing? Like you I have wondered the same thing but have never really taken the time to research out the number 5 and its significance in scripture, maybe someone else may have that could add to this?

#2: It seems Lot would rather harm come to him and his household than to his guests. May be something to do with the cultural norms of the time.

#3: It also seems that sometimes, some divine warnings DO come with a timer attached. This question reminds me of something I read in Martha Wing Robinson's biography.
At least twice, the Lord sent warnings to families about the salvation of their children.
In one instant, the parents were to see to it that the child came to a saving knowledge of Jesus before her 7th birthday! Thankfully, the parents heeded the warning, albeit after her 6th birthday.
A second time, a similar warning came to four families with four teenage daughters. The parents were warned to pray for their daughters to receive salvation in their teen years.
Wonderfully, all four girls ended up not only walking with the Lord, but having fruitful ministries!
Only the Lord knew what circumstances could have made it hard/impossible for those children to be saved if they had persisted into adulthood in their unbelief!
Such matters are too high for me to analyze.

#5 Let us be careful as we judge another parent. When I have grown adult children who are walking with the Lord, I might have something to say about Jacob's parenting skills. Until then, I'll be quiet. I'll let those saints who adult offspring are walking with the Lord offer their insight.

Tolu-

I wasn't judging Jacob- just making posing a question. Scripture is largely silent as to how he raised his children.

as far as #2- I didn't see him offering himself up- just his daughters.

Man Julius- I can't tell if you are being serious or not!

The disciples caught 153 fish in John 21- all three prime numbers and 5 is smack dab in the middle.

I had originally included the Scripture about training up a child in the way that he should go....then thought the better of it, seeing as I don't yet have adult children.
The paragraph about #5 came immediately after that.

I didn't mean to make it sound like you were judging Jacob as a parent.

As far as Lot's wife and daughters look at Jeremiah 31 and 1 Corinthians 7.

Hey Julius-

I guess I was never that into Bible codes etc- although I do know that certain numbers have significance.

I guess the ones you point out that give me pause are the references to chapters- because of course the original manuscripts had no chapter and verse demarcations.

I had never heard this 5 being a number of grace- thanks for pointing it out.

Brother Todd,

Could it be that (righteous) Lot valued the things of God (angels) to whom he played host even above his virgin daughters and tho they (angels) were powerful enough in themselves to handle the mob, Lot offers his "best" to preserve them? Hence his righteousness being displayed in his belief that God could protect/spare them, which He did, as well as the parallel between Ezekiel 9:4 and 2 Peter 2:7-8. This is where the scriptures seem to teach on why Lot was considered righteous before God.

I wonder if we (like Abraham and Lot) value the things of the Lord above our own so much so to offer them up as they did-

It also stuck out that tho these men were very powerful Angels, Lot nonetheless knowingly put himself and his whole house at risk by contending with them to enter his house that he may play host to them and comfort them out of what God had given him. It seems as tho he (Lot) wasn't completely aware these men were angels until after the incident when they revealed that the Lord had sent them to destroy the place.

Another thing that struck me was this act (on God's part) speaks of His integrity as He put eyes on the ground as it were to be witnesses as to why judgement would be passed, again being patient and merciful not wanting any to perish but all to come to repentance. Having said that when I was questioned/pressed on this by some unbelievers, my response was that the judgment itself was an act of Gods mercy as they had gotten so far gone that it would be unmerciful to not only allow it to continue but to allow children to be born into and raised according to these practices being themselves corrupted by the wickedness of them and infecting the surrounding areas like a cancer.

Fletcher-

You may be right, but that is an exceedingly tough pill to swallow- at least to me. I would have come out with guns blazing (or swords or anything I could get my hands on) before offering up virgin daughters to a depraved mob.

Of course it could just go to show how little females were valued in that culture.

Brother Todd,
Yeah I've def considered that especially in light of some other Old Testament passages but..... where this one seems (at least potentially) different is that Lot is characterized by God as righteous whereas in the other passages I'm thinking of they were not considered so at the time.

For me, if God accounts a man righteous and enough so to save him and his family then cultural precedences would be superseded by their faith, would it not?
Now that's not to say they don't mess up and make mistakes ie; Abraham giving Sarah to pharaoh to save his own skin- but even when that happened God nonetheless remained faithful and spared her too.

I don't know for sure and am just putting it out there for consideration...

Btw I do ever so enjoy your musings and the original had questions that cracked me up;) I can appreciate the honesty with which you approach difficult scriptures and I believe God honors that-