marc
May 12, 2005
Is Gods love unconditional? I have some verses but its getting late and I have to wake up early... I just wanna throw the question out there...Marc
Is Gods love unconditional? I have some verses but its getting late and I have to wake up early... I just wanna throw the question out there...Marc
God is love. the word says "If ye love me keep my commamdments" Read the word ask for understanding, he will open the word to you. Luke 24:32 also Luke 24:45 God bless and good reading
God unconditionally loves his son Jesus Christ, when we eneter in to that covenant relationship where we are allowing the Life of Jesus live through our surrendered lives or as Paul puts it "I no longer live but Christ lives in me" then that same unconditional love becomes ours.Thats the way I understand itPaul
God's "love" is unconditional. Bear in mind that He "chastens those He loves". The core issue here, is your concept of love. Love requires truth, and sometimes, the truth hurts.My own dealings with the "undontional love" of God, have been numerous (and at time humourous). One that stands out (and probably the most significant) was an event that involved my driver's licence. As some of you might know, apart from my ramblings here, I am a sales representative. Late 2003, I received a speeding fine. Upon paying, I discovered that I had acquired enough demerit points to have my licence suspended, unless I took up an option to suspend the sentance, conditional to an inpeccable record for 12 months.After six months, during a period of being disciplined with my prayer life, and devotional study, I was caught speeding, on the way to a prayer meeting. I onformed the policeman of my situation, and admitted my guilt, having no excuse.In the prayer meeting, the pastor was leading us in prayer, saying "Thank Him for all the good things He's done in your life." In my head, I'm thinking, "Good things!! I'm going to lose my licence. I need my licence for my job. My wife will be angry. What good things?" This line of thinking was quickly followed by, "This is all my fault, I have no one else to blame." So I thanked Him for the policeman, who slowed me down, because it wasn't a tree.God loved me so much, that He had a policeman stop me. He could have used a tree, another car, or even a child running across the street.There is a happy end to this story, which will require another time to tell (I didn't end up losing my licence...by Divine intervention). My point is, my interpretation of God's love could have been tempered by the worldly idea of romance. Romance says, "I love you so much, that I want to smother you with gifts, to prove it." Unconditonal Love says, "I love you so much, that I expect greatness from you, and I'll do all that I can to help you achieve it. But the rest has to be up to you." True love sets a standard, expects it to be achieved, does all that it can to assist, and allows the possibilty of failure, by the choice of the "object of that love".
God's love is unconditional in the sense that we don't do anything to earn it. It is always there propositioning us for a 'yes' response.Are we under a moral obligation to respond? I'd say so. God is jealous about who and what receives our love. He notices when it goes elsewhere. His one single-minded intention is to draw us into loving Him unconditionally in return.Does unconditional love expect a 'yes' response? Is it ok to refuse the love of the Creator of heaven and earth, the King of Glory, the Lord of Lords, the Prince of Peace? Hmmm. Why would anyone do this?
Did some quick checking for you. This was as close as I could find:"As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated."[Romans 9:13]"All their wickedness is in Gilgal: for there I hated them: for the wickedness of their doings I will drive them out of mine house, I will love them no more: all their princes are revolters."[Hosea 9:15]While we have these two examples, most of the time we see God "hating" the sin, but loving the sinner.But I must ask, Does God love people in hell? The "chastisement" quote only works with believers. You have to finish the verse. Who does God chasten? Every son whom He receiveth. Why? Because He is a good father. But what about children of the devil?Hope this helps the discussion here.Blessings,RT
Hello RT,I think you're asking the wrong question.But what about children of the devil?If you read Ephesians carefully, He (the Father) calls them children of disobedience and threatens them with wrath. I don't think the devil has children. God has children who are either obedient or disobedient. Even Legion was not considered unsavable; neither are those at the end of Romans 1. Generally, there is hope for us all, if we accept the lifeline which God offers.See also the genealogies in Matt 1 and Luke 3, to connect us humans to God - rather than Satan. If you want to think of demon-possessed people as 'children of the devil' then Matt 4:23 and the sending out of the 70 help to dispel the notion that demons are a problem to God. Generally, it is the people who are far too comfortable in their company. It is the people who have to turn and run towards the Saviour.
If you read Ephesians carefully, He (the Father) calls them children of disobedience and threatens them with wrath. I don't think the devil has children.You don't think the devil has children? Jesus said he did."Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)Even Legion was not considered unsavable; neither are those at the end of Romans 1. Generally, there is hope for us all, if we accept the lifeline which God offers.What??? Excuse me if I'm a little taken back here. But you actually think that devils can be saved?? Jesus said that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. I don't read of any exceptions to that. "Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:" (Matthew 25:41)He didn't say it was prepared for the devil, his angels, and people. Why? Because hell wasn't prepared for people. Where can you find salvation for devils in Scripture?Blessings,RT
God is love but what kind of love are we talking about a western view or a biblical point of view1Jo 3:16 - Show ContextHereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the brethren. 1Jo 4:7 - Show ContextBeloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.1Jo 4:16 - Show ContextAnd we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. 1Jo 4:21 - Show ContextAnd this commandment have we from him, That he who loveth God love his brother also.1Jo 5:2 - Show ContextBy this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
Hi RT,I think we have a misunderstanding here and it's probably my fault for not having picked up your point and made a statement about it. In your original post, But I must ask, Does God love people in hell? The "chastisement" quote only works with believers. You have to finish the verse. Who does God chasten? Every son whom He receiveth. Why? Because He is a good father. But what about children of the devil?I responded to your question 'what about the children of the devil?'My response which you have challenged, having read it as if I'm saying 'devils can be saved', was written in response to your suggestion that children of the devil cannot be saved. Using your superb verse from John, then, you also know that 'every son whom He receiveth', refers to the children of the devil who have been saved into sonship of the Father through faith in Jesus Christ.Basically, that was my point - not to condemn 'children of the devil' as if they cannot be saved - but I chose the phrase from Ephesians to define the 'children of the devil' not from the spiritual perspective of their father the devil, but from the spiritual perspective of their Father in heaven, who waits patiently for us all, until we come into the obedience of faith. Then you said this,What??? Excuse me if I'm a little taken back here. But you actually think that devils can be saved?? Jesus said that hell was prepared for the devil and his angels. I don't read of any exceptions to that. bringing in a different discussion (presently going on in the thread about Adam's sin, in the Scriptures and Doctrine forum). I don't read of the devil and his angels being saved either and I hope when you re-read my first post with the above explanation in mind, you'll see we are in agreement on this (as far as I can tell). Because hell wasn't prepared for people. Maybe not, but, what do you make of this verse, then?Revelation 20:1515 And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire. EditEven Legion was not considered unsavable; neither are those at the end of Romans 1. Please could you explain what in this last quote from my first post, led you to respond as you did? Thanks. :-)
Sorry about the misunderstanding. Your statement:"Even Legion was not considered unsavable", can only have one conclusion in my mind. I am assuming now that you meant the man who was possessed with Legion. But when Jesus asked the devil (not the man) his name, the devil said that his name was "legion" because there was more than the one (probably the leader) in the man. So I thought you were saying that the devils could be saved. See that now?Whew. You had me worried. And really surprised. It was hard to believe that you really thought that given our previous discussions. :-P I also see your point on your definition of "children of the devil." And yes, children of the devil can become children of God. I didn't think I implied that. But maybe I did. I would have to go look.Well good to have that cleared up.Blessings,RT
Hi RT,Yes, I'm glad we have too. It is good that you understand the man could be delivered from the Legion of devils, but I was not wrong in saying the man's name was Legion. Read it again.In fact, this teaches us something about how a person's identity can be hijacked by other spirits, which have the individual's spirit in total bondage to them. This is part of the gospel, to help a person see that even without the devils, their human identity will only be acceptable to God, through faith in His Son.What I love about the New Testament, is the way Jesus and the disciples went round delivering from demons and healing the sick, without laying any other burden on them - to believe, to follow or to be committed. This is highlighted when He has been speaking about being the Bread of Life and everyone goes away and He says to the disciples, will you also; when Peter makes his famous declaration about words of eternal life.Is the church offering this kind if unconditional love to the world?
This discussion is locked.