Purpose Driven Covenant: Cause for joy or angiush?

The following words are found in the Purpose Driven Covenant that was declared Apr.17, 05 by the 30,000 members of Rick Warren's Saddleback Church. I won't be captivated by culture, manipulated by critics, motivated by praise, frustrated by problems, debilitated by temptation, or intimidated by the devil. I'll keep running my race with my eyes on the goal, not the sidelines or those running by me. When times get tough, and I get tired, I won't back up, back off, back down, back out, or backslide. I'll just keep moving forward by God's grace. I'm Spirit-led, purpose-driven and mission-focused, so I cannot be bought, I will not be compromised, and I shall not quit until I finish the race.The full covenant is on this site: http://www.pastors.com/article.asp?ArtID=8209This is amazing - that so many people would eagerly commit themselves to such an ideal standard. RW is encouraging pastors around the world to lead their own churches in this declaration. It seems that Rick Warren and Joshua of ancient Israel were NOT like-minded. I'll explain: _________________________From "A Fatal Diagnosis" (by me) When Joshua was old and about to die, he delivered a farewell address to Israel which included some unpleasant words about the condition of their hearts. He said, "'You are not able to serve the Lord.'The people refused to accept these words: But the people said to Joshua, 'No! We WILL serve the Lord and obey him' Then Joshua said, 'You are witnesses against yourselves that you have chosen to serve the Lord." Joshua 24:19 -24.Joshua was telling them that in no way would they succeed in remaining obedient to the Lord. Was he being a pessimistic wet blanket to the promising young nation? Yes he was! But he had a good reason. Through his many years of experience and through his close walk with the Lord, he had learned about human nature, and so he knew that Israel was incapable of fidelity to God.He could not forget the two million Israelites who had died in the desert, never seeing the Promised Land because of their refusal to trust in God. Their hearts were hardened. Joshua had watched them all die under the curse of their sin!Nevertheless this new generation of zealous Israelites thought that they were better than their predecessors. They thought that they knew better than Joshua even though he was a seasoned spiritual leader. What arrogance! It wasn't long before Joshua's words proved to be correct. Israel's good intentions became a witness against themselves because they soon wandered away from God.No one is any better even today. That includes those who perceive themselves as being very spiritual. Have you ever noticed how many of our worship songs and prayers in church express good intentions? It would seem that we are a lot like Israel, saying, "We will do good, O Lord!" Can we really measure up to the high standards that we proclaim? Do we even want to do so - that is, from the bottom of our heart - our inner being? Perhaps our words as expressed in our songs and prayers, are a witness against ourselves. Perhaps they reveal our arrogance and our failure to accept the fatal diagnosis of our own hearts. Perhaps we believe that we are doing well because we assume that our own standards are the same as God's standards...___________________________It would seem that by declaring this Purpose Driven Covenant thousands are declaring their own self-deception - a witness against themselves. The only way out of the delusion would be some very painful eye-openers down the road. Perhaps anguish would be a more appropriate response than joy. Diane

Doctor Diane, your "diagnosis" seems right on, we must pray for the patient.I haven't read the full covenant but the clip you quoted sure sounds alot like the multitude of positive thinking/self help literature that is out in Christian bookstores these days. Where are the proponents of brokenness and self-denial and the suffering of the fellowship of the cross?In Christ,Ron

Diane,A hearty amen to your writing on PDL.As i went onto your site yesterday to view another one of your articles I realized I had been on your site before. I am not sure when maybe a year or so ago. :-) Surrendered to Him, Chaninedit: o- I know. It was Chip B. I noticed you had Chip's site as a link and also had Becky Mc. writings as well. Were you a member of his forum as well?

i ago to church that is wrapping up the pdl program. at this church, we were always encouraged to measure up the sermon to the bible as a standard. i did this, and when i found out a discepancy, i asked a question to an elder, and i ended up getting my head bit off. another posing as my friend ended up not only destroying my reputation there, but has also extended this courtessy to my wife as well.this all started at the time of purpose driven life campaign. these are the same people whom control the hospitality and the prayer ministries. it is to the point where we are leaving that church. but this is not the only story. while the poeple are being indoctrinated to this step toward the world church, the church itself is changin pretty close to word for word of rw's purpose driven church. the principle in this book starts by figuring, it's ok to lose 50 biblical christians if you can gain 200 seekers. in our case, a book so much is not the issue as the way people are forced to waste 8 sundays listening to this. a wed. study group is one thing, but when it is forced on an entire congregation,it is a beginning of apostacy, and the loss of wht matters in life JESUS CHRIST. if anyone wants to know their purpose, it's simple...go out and make disciples. period.the only thing that rw has done to help the kingdom in this case, is to help get an early start on separating the sheep from the goats.

waiting4him,Wow, thank you for sharing this with us. I have heard that there are others like this that have felt kind of a "go along with the program or else" because of the PDL program. I hope this is not the case everywhere- although what you mention about the "world church" does have my discernment antennas up.In Him, Chanin

Sister DianeHere is another time in Scripture that brings to light what you have discerned.Neh. 10:28 Now the rest of the people—the priests, the Levites, the gatekeepers, the singers, the Nethinim, and all those who had separated themselves from the peoples of the lands to the Law of God, their wives, their sons, and their daughters, everyone who had knowledge and understanding— 29 these joined with their brethren, their nobles, and entered into a curse and an oath to walk in God’s Law, Today is no different than those of old. It sounds like the purpose driven program will be a "curse," to those who enter into it. God blessed you for with your eyes you see, and with your ears you hear.In ChristJeff

It sounds like the purpose driven program will be a "curse," to those who enter into it. Yeh, really any form of self-delusion brings a curse on us - because Satan has control of the darkness (our hidden, unconfessed sin). The PD Covenant reminds me of Peter and the disciples who were convinced that they would never, never desert their Lord. Yet when the trials came, they were overcome by FEAR - even to the point of running away, and denying their Lord. What would we do if we feared a threat to our lives if we disclosed our allegiance to Christ? Only testings (not pie-in-the-sky covenants) will reveal our true heart motive. God allowed Satan to sift Peter to break down his delusion. No doubt he still allows Satan to sift and to break down the pride and self-delusion of the modern day church (begining with each of us). Only God can rescue people from the curse. Hasn't it always been that way? Isn't that the core message of Scripture - God's redemption - the reversal of the curse?Those who weep will rejoice! Joy follows anguish! Diane

In the book of Neh chapter 10, it says that the people took on the curse. Look to Scripture to find why it is a curse to follow the Law of Moses.Neh 10 30 We would not give our daughters as wives to the peoples of the land, nor take their daughters for our sons; 31 if the peoples of the land brought wares or any grain to sell on the Sabbath day, we would not buy it from them on the Sabbath, or on a holy day; and we would forego the seventh year’s produce and the exacting of every debt. Neh. 10:32 Also we made ordinances for ourselves, to exact from ourselves yearly one-third of a shekel for the service of the house of our God: 33 for the showbread, for the regular grain offering, for the regular burnt offering of the Sabbaths, the New Moons, and the set feasts; for the holy things, for the sin offerings to make atonement for Israel, and all the work of the house of our God. 34 We cast lots among the priests, the Levites, and the people, for bringing the wood offering into the house of our God, according to our fathers’ houses, at the appointed times year by year, to burn on the altar of the LORD our God as it is written in the Law. Neh. 10:35 And we made ordinances to bring the firstfruits of our ground and the firstfruits of all fruit of all trees, year by year, to the house of the LORD; Within this body of Scripture, do you see that the people, "made ordinances," so that they in their own strength might fulfill the law of Moses. When ever man makes "ordinance for ourselves," man will stumble because of his carnal mind. Without God's Holy Spirit directing us we too are condemned by the curse of the law of Moses. Listen to the similarity of what the Saddleback church has taken on and that of those who lived during Nehemiah's day. In ChristJeff

Rockie, I assume you are saying: By trying to live the Christian life in the flesh, we are really living in the Old Covanant. That is the same as denying Christ and all he stood for - his atonement, new life, etc. That is really ANTI- Christ. PS, I once heard the Nehemiah account used as example of OT revival, but I'm inclinded to agree with you that really it is a revival of Old Covanant, not New Covanant. I remember once reading RW's words that PDC as a great revival going on right now. I agree. However, it seems to be a "revival" of the Old Covenant. if you are feeling embarrassed at being unable to succeed or only able to fail on any single point, don't be!In other words, part of God's desire is that we honestly face our neediness - that we can't measure up to his standard - and we need his mercy. However, when we fail MAN-made laws, can any MAN st us free from the guilt, shame, even emotional illness that results when we can't measure up? No wonder Paul was so strong about not laying burdens on people's consciences ( too many laws).Diane

Sister Diane wrote:PS, I've heard the Nehemiah account used as example of OT revival, but I'm inclinded to agree with you that really it is a revival of Old Covanant, not New Covanant. I remember once reading RW's words that PDC as a great revival going on right now. I agree. It seems to be a "revival" of the Old Covenant. I believe that there was both an Old Covenant Revival and also a Revival according to the Covenant made with Abraham. Those who elected to follow the law were cursed. Those who elected to follow God were blessed as Abraham was.All men are subject to the law and cannot be made perfect by the flesh. As you stated, only through the Spirit is one part of the Covenant of the Circumcision of the heart. In ChristJeff

SISTER dorcas wrote:It is far healthier for Christians to feel themselves in a permanent 'cracked biscuit' state - fragile and dependent on the Lord for support - than to inadvertently approach the world, brethren family and friends, Satanic opposition, criticism and temptation, as challenges which they are expected to meet single-handedly. NO! Only through the Spirit can these matters be effectively addressed; including, addressing feeling convinced one is a weak and useless failure.I hear you. We only become a "cracked biscuit," when we submit and wait upon Him. If we follow the Law, the only thing that cracks is our relationship with Him.Col 2:21 “Do not touch, do not taste, do not handle,” 22 which all concern things which perish with the using—according to the commandments and doctrines of men? 23 These things indeed have an appearance of wisdom in self-imposed religion, false humility, and neglect of the body, but are of no value against the indulgence of the flesh. Nothing we promise to do in our own understanding has any "value against the indulgence of the flesh."Amen Sis.In ChristJeff

Thanks for that link, I was also astonished to see some of the "new age" links in PDL. I was just on purposedrivenlife.com and found this on Rick Warren's page:Rick Warren is well-known as the pioneer of the Purpose-Driven paradigm for church health. More than 250,000 pastors and church leaders from over 125 countries have attended Purpose-Driven Church seminars in 18 languages. Peter Drucker calls Rick "the inventor of perpetual revival."Yikes!

PDC and PDL... has become like an idol to them. They defend it with fire in their eyes.For sure this is a tell-tale sign that PDC has become a SACRED COW to some of the adherents. You can always tell when you've touched someone's idol: You incite that person's wrath when, in their eyes, you have "damaged" the polish. Also, you may discover a gun pointing at you. Guess how I know? Thank God they dont' have a gun in their hands that is loadedReally? I had a few nasty shots fired at me. Without realizing it, we may get zapped when we flaw the idol. (ie appear to question their teachings)PS Religious practise has long been an idol for many people: a 'FORM OF GODLINESS", so in a sense, this is nothing new. I'm wondering if God is going to use this mass movement to bring about the refinement of his true churchHas anyone checked out the credientials of Peter Druker? Discernment needed here!!!!!! Diane

Diane,I agree with you on the need for wisdom on "where our foot shall tread", even online! These very "sensitive" issues require an even greater discernment on our part on how, when, and with what to respond.I was just talking with a friend over lunch who was lamenting over visiting a service over the weekend that featured a very "man-centered", "seeker-sensitive" message. We all know the feeling we get when we are in that situation, usually one of anger, frustration, zeal, etc.But as we were talking, we started thinking that those situations, and even this PDL one, are perfect oppurtunities for the Lord to put us in as a test to see how we will respond. Will we ask Him for His heart for the situation, or just rant and rave in our own minds, however correct we may be in our assessment? Right now it seems "pretty easy" to identify false teaching or deception in many cases, but as times moves along, I have reason to believe from the scriptures that it will be harder and harder to distinguish the truth from the lie. If we ourselves aren't cultivating the Lord's heart within us in these "obvious" situations, how will we know what to think or what path to take when the deception grows increasingly subtle? We must cry "Lord, what is Your heart for this church, this situation, this deceived person (people)!?" I think if we did have His heart, we'd have one of great grief over the deception. Then, identifying with Jesus' heart as His friend (like Moses), I believe He will tell us in each and every situation what an appropriate response should be, whether it be silent prayer or a confrontation in Word.This seems to have been Jesus' heart, who only did "what [He] saw [His] Father doing". May we come to that place as well!Otherwise, I know that I will not be able to confront "sensitive" issues like the PDL one with wisdom, Lord knows I've picked the wrong battles and times before!I've always had a suspect feeling about the whole PDL movement, and this new book puts words to what I've been feeling for awhile. Lord give us wisdom on how to appropriately respond in Your Heart and Your Word in and out of season faithfully!

couch wrote:These very "sensitive" issues require an even greater discernment on our part on how, when, and with what to respond.This is probably one of the best pieces of common sense that anyone has posted on this forum. Good One! :smart:

What is a genuine God-given blessing to one is an idol to another.So, that's why we need divine enlightenment when dealing with these volitile situations. Perhaps learning to discern and hear God will keep us from reacting inappropriately and harmfully. Diane

roadsign wrote:Perhaps learning to discern and hear God will keep us from reacting inappropriately and harmfully. I think there should be a sign on the front door directing people down this path of learning before they start posting like they are 'Gods gift' to this site.p.s. About the idol thingy, probably many folk have found that that the idol got them looking in the right direction.