What is your view on pastors using sermon outlines from someone else?

sermonindex Dec 21, 2015

I just recently found out that my pastor uses full sermon outlines from the web. Not because he told the the church but I had noticed they didn't sound original and was listening to a preacher one day on television and it sounded exactly like the sermon my pastor preached. So i looked it up and found out that he is uses whole sermon outlines to preach messages. Don't get me wrong he seems to speak from his own at times and quote scripture without looking at anything and i believe he does mean well. This kind of angered me at first because in my spirit I have felt something not right at times with his messages. It has made me possibly want to move to another church and it also made me think maybe that is why my prayers are not heard for my wife and family barely to want to come to church ever. It is a first baptist church and many positives. We support missionaries who have come to our church to preach, we have great sunday school classes and even used answer in genesis courses and my sunday schoool class in going through Voddie Bauchmans course on Family Shepherds, and also the Lord has opened doors for me to help out and speak at our youth open gym for basketball. My pastor has been very kind also sending get well cards when family passes or when i miss church and the fellowship at our church is pretty good. So their many plusses it is just the preaching really gets to me because I love good preaching and I am always wanting to get closer to God when I come to service. What is your guys opinion on this?

D

deltadom Dec 21, 2015

It called Plagiarism
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plagiarism

It is so dangerous and it means that he is not wrestling with the word of God himself. I would leave as if he is deceitful in this area what other areas is he deceitful

D

dolfan Dec 21, 2015

Be kind hearted inside yourself about it is my first opinion. A good man of God can make good, anointed use of others' outlines. The kerygma message of the apostles was used by more than one of them, I assure you. Maybe even Jesus repeated His own "stump speech" more than a time or two on particular parables or lessons. And, ALL the preachers are borrowing HIS work, right?! We hope! No one is doing any original work in that regard. Outlines, sermon topics, even more substantial sermon "borrowing".

The problem can arise --- and very often does --- where a man either starts (1) "mailing it in" by merely copying the work of another that he's not praying into his own spirit and for his own church or audience and/or (2) using the work of others without giving credit (plagiarizing). I once went to a conference at Willow Creek with my old pastor and John Ortberg gave a really nice lesson called "It All Goes Back In The Box", a story from his own life that made a point about loving material things. Weeks later, the pastor got up and preached this sermon --- lock, stock and barrel --- in first person as if all the things that Ortberg had shared had actually happened to HIMSELF. My wife and I just got slackjawed in disbelief. No credit. No foreword that "this story is told by John Ortberg". Nothing. So.....yeah. Problems arise. Men cheat at their sacred calling. It happens.

Canned outlines are not a problem if a man is seeking God for it. Everyone uses some sort of frame for thought. Pray for your pastor. Pray that he's not mailing it in. Fast for him. Ask God not to let him lose the sacredness of his calling, and ask God to breathe new life into His Word into the heart of this pastor. Don't spread the news of what you saw. Keep it in the closet before God. If He chooses to "reward him openly" in some way of correction, He can do that in His own way and time.

K

KingJimmy Dec 21, 2015

Charles Spurgeon once told a story about visiting a church and much to his surprise he found himself listening to one of his own sermons. He said it was an example of casting your bread in the waters and having it come back to you.

J

JB1968 Dec 22, 2015

A pastor or teacher may use other's outlines at times, but he should always give credit to whom credit is due. If not he is plagiarizing, which is lying.

J

JHerndon Dec 22, 2015

I have used things from other speakers. I have been greatly influenced by Matt Chandler, David Platt, David Wilkerson and some other guys so some of their material is always making an appearance when I speak. I have never just copied a sermon preaching it word for word. And I give credit where credit is due. I have no problem with speakers using someone else's outline but telling their stories like they are yours and preaching word for word I feel is lazy and not acceptable

Z

ZekeO Dec 22, 2015

Whats probably worse imo is pastors preaching sermons from the same theological genepool week after week!

D

dolfan Dec 22, 2015

I think it would be fantastic If someone would take the great awakening sermon masterpieces and update them to more contemporary phrasing and either publish them or preach them online

D

dohzman Dec 22, 2015

Col 4:15
\tSalute the brethren which are in Laodicea, and Nymphas, and the church which is in his house.

Col 4:16
\tAnd when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea.

I think that maybe I would be really slow to pass judgement unless they represented the sermons as a Thus saith the Lord type of message. Maybe just pray that the Lord would put a burden on your pastors heart to edify and to minister from the pulpit that burden of God from the Word of God and from the heart. Just a thought.

J

JB1968 Dec 23, 2015

Remember, it is not plagiarism if credit is given to the source- and it is acceptable to use these study sources when credit is given. Otherwise it is lying. Rev. 21:8 speaks about this.

A

alamb Dec 23, 2015

Since I am a curious person, I would go to the pastor after the service is over and say (first noting that others are not within hearing distance) wow, your sermon this morning sounded just like Pastor X's message I just heard on tape a couple of weeks ago. That's really amazing! Then simply wait for his response.

L

Lysa Dec 23, 2015

John,

I understand where you are coming from, years ago I got David Wilkerson's sermon/prayer mailings and the church I was going to at the time, the preacher preached 'verbatim' the message I read from David that week. And the preacher actually accepted the accolades of the people after the service telling him how great a sermon that was. I was upset for weeks after that. I couldn't see that the Word actually helped some people. Some times we hyper focus on one little bitty thing and don't see the bigger picture that God can see and USE!!!

BUT!! I have learned through the years that you (or I) cannot be another man's judge. If you want him to walk closer to the Lord, you pray for him. If you want deeper sermons from him, you pray for him. You might be the only one actually praying for the man.

God bless,
Lisa

N

narrowpath Dec 23, 2015

If the preachers understanding of a sermon is merely conveying doctrine, he can do so as long as he refers to the source. If his preaching remains solely in this realm, it will ultimately produce death in the hearers.

If he desires to give a living word, he cannot use other peoples material but has to come to the master personally. The difference is like opening a can and serve it as soup or making fresh soup from the ingredients. This is described in Mat 25:45

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant,whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.

The wise servant hears from God and gives the right word at the right time.

L

Lysa Dec 23, 2015

by narrowpath
If the preachers understanding of a sermon is merely conveying doctrine, he can do so as long as he refers to the source. If his preaching remains solely in this realm, it will ultimately produce death in the hearers.

So, you're saying that if any preacher does not cite their source(s), God can't turn it around use it to His glory and His good? That's not logical.

I'd say we'd all be dead then, if God is that cut and dried. Praise God, He isn't!

sermonindex Dec 23, 2015

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant,whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? 46 Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. 47 Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
The wise servant hears from God and gives the right word at the right time

Well said dear brother.

sermonindex Dec 23, 2015

Hey guys thanks for the reply. For me I am so accustom to certain preachers that I think that is what I expect from my own pastor. I do think the Lord might want me to pray for him because it does seem that some people have been impacted by his life and messages, but another part of me desperately wants to go to this other church I found that has what it seems genuine worship and preaching that I found very God exalting. But,at the same time I feel as if I am being selfish about making that choice. Their was a time two weeks ago before I looked this up that I heard the Holy Spirit say that or I believe it was the Holy Spirit say that I look at others too much and not myself. That I have been very critical of others now in the past. Is what like once I heard that a day or so later I decided to look into that and was I being disobedient by doing this. Man the choices you have to make can be so confusing at times. I pray that he changes and the Lord opens his eyes to see. I told the Lord the only way I would leave the church possibly if they got rid of the open gym which I been helping with for almost two years, they been thinking about it lately which I hope not because though few kids come they are still being impacted with the truth. Thank you guys for your responses.

T

twayneb Jan 1, 2016

Given everything that has been said so far, let me throw in my two cents. There are times when we need a NOW word from God, and there are times when we are simply called to teach the word of God. In the second instance, an outline from someone else can be VERY helpful, as long as it is Biblically sound. Teachers do this all the time. We teach from a textbook written by someone else. The determining factor is the purpose of the "sermon or lesson". I have rarely ever taught directly from someone's outline, but I have often used someone's outline or teaching as an aid to teach what I knew God was leading me to teach.

D

dougr777 Jan 2, 2016

Our pastor never "prepares" a sermon or teaching ever, but he is listening to the Father and asks him what to share each week and sometimes he talks for 2-3 hours ( or more ) from the Word of God. It's fresh Manna every week and we know it's from the Lord and what we need to hear for today.