Romans 7:7-25 and Romans 8:1-17 - Pre-conversion and post-convertion experience

elected Jan 31, 2016

In Romans 7:7-25 we see how sin through the law brings death to those living in the flesh. In contrast to that life of total defeat under the law of sin and death. In Romans 8:1-17 Apostle Paul describes the life of a victorious christian living under the law of the Spirit of life, that has set him free from the law of sin and death.

In the second passage we see that the Spirit grants life to those who belong to Jesus Christ but what a sad story is depicted of the person who is unregenated and living in the flesh in the first passage.

Life in the flesh and life In the Spirit are in opposite and in conflict with each other and cannot be reconciled. It is interesting to note that the Holy Spirit is not mentioned even once in Romans 7:7-25 but in Romans 8:1-17 the Holy Spirit is mentioned 17 times.

The man in Romans 7 is still in the old Adam and under the law and outside Christ but the man in Romans 8 is in Christ and under grace and set free by Christ from the bondage of sin and death.

The law was the old master and husband but Christ nailed the handwitting of the ordinances of the law on his Cross. Apostle Paul talking about christians at Rome says in Romans 7:4 "Likewise my brothers, you have died to the law through the body of Christ, so that you may belong to another, to him who has been raised from the dead, in order that we may bear fruit for God." Through the body of Christ on the Cross christians died to the law and belong to their new husband, Christ.

Paul said that "the law was holy and the commandment is holy and righteous and good" but sin used the law to bring about spiritual death in out life. In Galatians 3:24 Paul said that the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. The law can't bring salvation but it reveals sin in us and points us to Jesus Christ.

In Romans 7:13-25 the man that Paul is describing is living in total defeat. This is a picture of Paul before he came to Christ. We can also identify ourselves in this passage and with its despair and inability when we live in the flesh. It has been the experience of many christians but from the exegetical point of view the experience of the man described here, it's that of a man under law living in the flesh, unable to please God, even though in his mind and conscience he desires to obey the law of God but he can't because the law of sin and death is working in the members of his body.

Paul says in Romans 7:14 "I am of the flesh sold under sin", is Paul talking of his present experience? Or is he talking in a hypothetical way of the man who lives in the flesh and not in the Spirit. Was Paul sold under sin? In Romans 8 Paul said that "if by the Spirit you put to death the deeds of the body you will live", the Spirit has set him free from the law that was working in his members. The indwelling Christ has set him free from the indweeling sin. He has crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Christ in Paul is the hope of glory. Paul under the law was a zealous man for God but ignorant about the knowledge of God and of the Gosple, but when he met Christ on his way to Damascus, his life changed and after he was baptised and filled with the Spirit his life became a hymn of praise to the glory of God and he lived for the glory of God and for Christ who had set him free from the bondage of sin and called him to preach the Gospel to the Gentiles.

Romans 7:7-25 describes not the experience of Paul as a christian or that of the normal christian life, even though most of us can identify with that passage in our post-convertion experience because many of us still live lives of defeat or are still carnal when we should be spiritual but interpreting this passage as a normal experience of the christian is to contradict Romans 8 and this way create a carnal christian theology that would justify a carnal christian living and that was the situation with many christians in Corinth when Paul wrote 1Corinthians.

In chapter 6 and 7 of Romans, Paul emphasizes new life in Christ, our union with Christ, our justification and sanctification by faith and walking in the Spirit. In between these two chapters Paul emphasizes life under the law and sin, which is in total contrast with the life of the christian in chapters 6 and 8.

Blessings,

***edited***

sermonindex Jan 31, 2016

I agree with your exegesis. We cannot be married to both the law and Christ. That is spiritual adultery and maybe why many are living in defeat. When we died, we were set free from the law ( for the law cannot die) and we were raised up in newness of life (in Christ). Since the law of sin and death will be around as long as the old heavens and earth are around, the only way to be free from the law is being crucified with Christ. Our identification by faith with Him in His death, which is turning to Him in faith, and away from the world, receiving His Spirit and then picking up our cross and following Him.

Galatians 3:1-3

O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?

This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

The religious person is not content with Christ, they love their religious rules and want others to be governed by them, confusing their rules with the governing ability of the Holy Spirit.

sermonindex Jan 31, 2016

Lets get real here. There are many truly born again Christians who are still experiencing lives of defeat and and still struggling with sin.

Look at Hudson Taylor who was truly born again and was a missionary in China and for many years struggled with sin until he saw the light but he still sinned.

Look at what he wrote

It matters little to my servant whether I send him to buy a few dollars worth of things or the most expensive articles. In either case he looks to me for the money and brings me his purchases. So if God places me in great perplexity, must He not give me much guidance; or in positions of great difficulty, much grace; or in circumstances of great pressure and trial, much strength? There is no fear that His resources will be unequal to the emergency! And His resources are mine for He is mine, and is with me and dwells in me.

All this springs from the believers oneness with Christ. And since Christ is now living in my heart by faith, how happy I have been! I wish I could tell you instead of writing about it.

I am no better than before (in one sense, I do not wish to be, nor am I striving to be); but I am dead and buried with Christ - yes, and risen too and ascended; and now Christ lives in me, and "the life that I now live in the flesh, I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me."

I now believe that I am dead to sin. God reckons me so, and tells me to reckon myself so. He knows best. All my past experiences may have shown that it was not so; but I dare not say it is not, when He says it is. I feel and know that old things have passed away. I am as capable of sinning as ever, but Christ is realized as present as never before. He cannot sin; and He can keep me from sinning.

I am sorry to have to confess it, but I cannot say that since I have seen this light I have not sinned; but I do feel there was no need to have done so. And further - walking more in the light, my conscience has been more tender; sin has been instantly seen, confessed, pardoned; and peace and joy (with humility) instantly restored; with one exception, when for several hours peace and joy did not return - from lack, as I had to learn, of full confession, and from some attempt to justify self.

sermonindex Jan 31, 2016

I don't think we were talking about NOT sinning but rather being a slave to sin. With Christ, we now have a choice: we don't have to sin. I interpreted the original post as talking about being freed from the power of sin.

Philippians 3:12-14

Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

elected Feb 2, 2016

Its true that there are many Christians who live a life of defeat and I'm one one them and I desire to be free from sin and have this constant peace that the Lord gives to his followers.

I'm simply taking the word of God to say what it means and not lower it to my experience to justify my spiritual condition.The truth is that our Savior died on the cross to atone for our sin and set us free and if we submit unconditionally to his lordship and give the throne of our heart so he can reign as King we will experience the presence of the Lord and there won't be room for indweeling sin.

The struggle or conflict with the flesh will always be with us, we need to crucify our flesh and reckon our old adamic self as dead with Jesus on the cross. Many Christians don't understand the difference between old Adam that died with Christ on the cross and the flesh that is still with us. The flesh in itself in not evil but mortal. It can't please God, if we are led by the flesh and by it's inclination to sin we will lust sin and be slaves to sin. Paul exhorted believers to holy living and to present out bodies as a holy acceptable sacrifice to God and for entire sanctification of spirit, soul and body. I'm still trying to understand the nature of the flesh but this I know if we walk in the flesh and not in the Spirit we sin and displease God and live in bondage to sin.

You know that those saints who are Spirit filled and live godly are humble and quick to confess any sin in their lives and forsake it and receive cleansing in the blood of the Lamb.
Paul was one of the greatest saints of all times but he was one of the humblest one too, he said I'm the chief of sinners. John Bunyan too was a great saint but he gave glory to God and magnified the grace of God and called himself the chief of sinners.

I will ask a simple question? Is it possible for a spiritual Christian who who crucifies the flesh and walks in the Spirit and in the presence of the Lord to experience uninterrupted communion and peace with God for an hour or a day?

I don't know what others think about it here but I believe that a believer who has crowned Jesus as his King in his life and walks in the Spirit can walk in uninterrupted communion for one hour or one day. Why? Because the cross, the blood of Lamb and the presence of the Holy Spirit can give power to a christian to overcome sin, the flesh and the world. When Crust indwell the whole heart of the believer indwelling sin is slain and cast way.

If we confess our sins he is faithful and just to clease us from all our unrighteousness. It is our unbelief, spiritual pride, unrepentant heart and our disobedience to the word of God and besseting sin that keeps us from experiencing the fruit of the the Spirit and uninterrupted fellowship with the Lord.

Can we have victory over known or willing sin? Well, the bible tells me so and that's not sinless perfection because we will need the blood of Jesus to clease us even when we don't sin willfully we still can unintentionally or in ignorance.