IS IT RIGHT!

Question - An issue with someone I know has been brought to my attention. This person said that they've made a decision to have all 10 of their children killed because he wanted to prove to someone that his wife would still love him and be loyal to him. He claims to be a Christian and that God told him to do this. He told me that he has carried out his plan.

What should I do? Is he justified in doing so or should I turn him in?

He said that his wife is standing by him after all has been said and done.

Anyone have any suggestions on what I should do?

Is it right?

I do not mean to overwhelm anyone here but I have another question.

I also know someone who claims to be a christian who told me that they took one of the married women of their church to the abortion clinic and killed the baby. They said that this was God's will because one of the elders was the father of this illegitimate baby and they'd committed a grievous sin against the Holy God of heaven.

Should I report this to anyone in the church or were they justified and right to do so due to the grievous sin which had been committed?

What should I do?

Is it right?

This sounds insane. I can't even fathom situations like this happening, especially the first one.

Verify that these things did indeed happen, and if they did, then by all means turn them in.

Are you in America?

Savannah,

My two cents:

You absolutely should report the person to the authorities. God did not tell him to kill his children. If he did this it was not a self-defense just murder and there is never justification for murder.

It is curious the person gossiped to you about taking someone to get an abortion. They should have counseled the person to put the child up for adoption and not murder it and followed Matthew 18:15-17 for handling the elder. Go to them and ask if they had an affair and ask them to repent and step down from leadership. If they do not two should do the same. If he still does not repent tell it to the church.

Matthew 18:15-17
Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

I am not convinced the OP is not rhetorical.

Are you serious Savannah or trying to make some point?

TMK is right. It is rhetorical.

Let me guess. The 10 children killed relate to Job's children that God allowed Satan to kill. The unborn baby...could that be the illegitimate baby from David and Bathsheba that God took?

Savannah is trying to make a Calvinistic point I think. Don't know what the exact point is being made. God does bad things that we think are barbaric maybe???

Good call Dave. I did not make that connection but knew something was up.

Thank you all for your responses.

The verdict is out!...REPORT HIM!

It is no surprise to me, nor do I believe it is any surprise to anyone here on SI.

I'll begin with a quote from another thread by romanchog,

"... this is the main question in the matter of FAITH: do we TRUST God to be Who he says He is? Do we even know Who He is?"

THAT IS WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO.
THAT IS WHAT I'D LIKE EVERY ONE TO PONDER.

Those persons who are guilty in the scenarios in the OP have been clearly called out for their wrongdoing to state it mildly. We all see it without exception.

Now I quote TMK from another thread,

"I certainly agree that our definition of good and evil comes from God. He instilled that in us. Which is why I feel that ascribing actions to God that seem evil must be avoided at all costs."

And now this quote from dolfan in the same thread addressed to TMK,

"God's character does matter. By it, we know Him; by it, we know what it is He made us to be. But, He is self-defining. He also defines everything else...Whatever I think God is or would be or do is incorrect if His revelation of Himself is to the contrary, even if I find it unpalatable. "Lord, help my distaste to become the taste of heaven!" (for the full quote go to the thread).

Accordingly, the scenarios presented clearly involve evil sinful acts. Any human being who would commit such evil ought to be REPORTED and brought to justice. The verdict is out on that without question.

All are agreed that it is impossible for God to commit evil or sin.

My next question is, what change occurs when a similar act of the scenario given is ascribed to God. Evil is no longer evil if God is the One carrying it all out.

Heydave guessed right when he said,

"Let me guess. The 10 children killed relate to Job's children that God allowed Satan to kill. The unborn baby...could that be the illegitimate baby from David and Bathsheba that God took?"

I'd remind you of the quote by romanchog which is the main matter, and what I'd like everyone to ponder,

"... this is the main question in the matter of FAITH: do we TRUST God to be Who he says He is? Do we even know Who He is?"

THAT IS WHAT IT ALL BOILS DOWN TO.
THAT IS WHAT I'D LIKE EVERY ONE TO PONDER.

The Word of God,

Job 1:6-22 
Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD, and Satan came also among them. And the LORD said to Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro on the earth, and from walking up and down upon it. And the LORD said to Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him on the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and shunneth evil? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, Doth Job fear God for naught? Hast not thou made a hedge about him, and about his house, and about all that he hath on every side? thou hast blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. But put forth thy hand now, and touch all that he hath, and he will curse thee to thy face. And the LORD said to Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thy hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of the LORD.

And there was a day when his sons and his daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And there came a messenger to Job, and said, The oxen were plowing, and the asses feeding beside them: And the Sabeans fell upon them, and took them away; yes, they have slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The fire of God hath fallen from heaven, and hath burned up the sheep and the servants, and consumed them; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, The Chaldeans made three bands, and fell upon the camels, and have carried them away, yes, and slain the servants with the edge of the sword; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee. While he was yet speaking, there came also another, and said, Thy sons and thy daughters were eating and drinking wine in their eldest brother's house: And behold, there came a great wind from the wilderness, and smote the four corners of the house, and it fell upon the young men, and they are dead; and I only have escaped alone to tell thee.

Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell upon the ground, and worshiped,

And said, Naked came I from my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: The LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.

2 Samuel 12:13-18
Then Nathan replied to David, "The LORD has taken away your sin; you will not die. However, because you treated the LORD with such contempt in this matter, the son born to you will die.”Then Nathan went home.

The LORD struck the baby that Uriah’s wife had borne to David, and he became ill. David pleaded with God for the boy. He fasted, went home, and spent the night lying on the ground. The elders of his house stood beside him to get him up from the ground, but he was unwilling and would not eat anything with them.

On the seventh day the baby died.

Please do not dismiss this, as is the practice of many a professor of a believer in the God of the Bible and the Bible of such God.

Since Heydave guessed right, maybe he'd like to be the first to attempt to answer.

No pressure...just a guess!

Now that I "get" the intent of the OP, I appreciate it.

I think I'll sit back and let others chime in first.

Savannah,
I echo Frank's reply. Yes I do trust God to be who He is and not based on my concept of what is right or wrong.

That said I do not believe the examples you gave imply that God just arbitrarily strikes people dead. Nor does it talk into the discussion of God predestinating (sp?) people arbitrarily to eternal destruction as per the thread from which this ones is an offshoot.

David's son was a judgement of adultery and there is reason to believe that Job's children were indulging in sin (based on his fear). So these are not conclusive proofs of God acting in a random merciless way.

We do ascribe to the view that God alone has the right to give and take life, in a way that no human has that right. In this we submit to His wisdom and authority because without Him we would not have breath of life in us.

For a human being to act in this way (as your illustrations) would be abominable lawlessness. So in that point I agree with you. We cannot 'judge' God on what is good and acceptable among men, or a restriction put on men by God.

The only problem is that in Job's case a plain reading indicates that God allowed his children to be killed to test Job- not as a judgment on them.

I love the book of Job but I am not fond of the set up and am not 100% convinced it's not a poetic device. Why would God allow satan to "get His goat" so to speak? Does he not know that satan is a liar and accuser? (The answer to that is "yes")

Frank asks,

"Savannah, what is your question? Is it do we trust God?"

And Frank goes on and answers this question with the unarguably and expected standard answer,

"Then the answer is yes...."

The real question is better stated by romanchog which I've already quoted, but will do so again,

"do we TRUST God to be Who he says He is? Do we even know Who He is?""

I think it was Neil who suggested in that other thread that the book of Job be read through twice. I'd suggest one read very slowly through just those verses from Job chapter 1 which I've quoted in this thread before jumping onboard and hastily attempt to steer this ship.

Bless the LORD...as Job!

Life and death are in God's hands. He can issue out those decrees whenever He wants and it is not considered sin.

Humans do not have that authority in most cases. Now if we're talking about justice, etc, maybe, but just day to day life, no.

If I kill someone, it's generally murder.

We can and should derive doctrine from the character of God, as revealed by the whole of scripture.

Exactly Julius. Well said!

Here's the related question coming from Paul,

Romans 9:22,23
What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much long-suffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had before prepared for glory.

Some claim election is corporate, but here we read of vessels in the plural.

All the answers in regard to the questions are inconsistent.

Example - I quote one,

"God is Who He is and God does what He does...Man is never in a position to bring accusations against God. The book of Job teaches us that."