A Confession, and research help

D

dougr777 Feb 28, 2016

I wanted to reach out to this forum and make a confession and ask for prayer and help. I know this is wrong, and off somewhere, but I need help, wisdom, prayer and discernment.

In my relationship with the Father, I have recently been going down a path with some people in my business relationships that have led me astray, and I need help, real solid Biblical help and truth from God's word. I'm confessing this out (and praying also), about this because it doesn't settle right, but it also sounds true at the same time. The bible does say if we have right thoughts, we will be prosperous, right?

I have a business and am surrounded by many people who are successful, have "alot" of money and wealth and they all attribute it to "the Secret", Law of Attraction, the "What you think you will get" teachings, Tony Robbins, Think and Grow rich books that have floated around for decades and deceiving many.

As I grow my business and trust the Father, I don't want to be lead astray, but I need help, research, understanding that is Biblical to refute what these folks "preach" as the secret to life! which I know will lead them to hell apart from God. Thanks, Doug

sermonindex Feb 28, 2016

by DougRenz on 2016/2/28 9:34:13
The bible does say if we have right thoughts, we will be prosperous, right?

You can have "right thoughts" yet now follow them up with right actions.

James 4:17
Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

And we must follow the Lord's voice. The only way to walk in the Spirit is to follow His voice not our "right thoughts".

Also, prospering financially has nothing to do with the gospel, good thoughts or good actions.

Bearing much fruit in Christ has nothing to do with money and yet that is what the Christian life is all about and without Christ we cannot bear this fruit which is His image (character, life) in us.

We serve a spiritual King in a spiritual kingdom and are blessed with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places.

Therefore, you may lose everything for your obedience to Christ and yet be very rich in love and spiritual blessings, and Godly fruit.

The people that follow the "Think and Grow Rich" mantra define riches and what is of value, much differently than how Jesus defined it.

They think they can follow formulas rather than follow the voice of the Lamb of God. How many testimonies have we heard of men who sought riches thinking they were seeking God's will only to admit they had a lean soul and were destitute of the true riches of Christ?

Don't seek to compete with them and let your life be a living refutation to their philosophy. They play act like they are very happy and joyful, and yet, take their money away and they have no more joy or happiness. But, you can be an example of true peace and joy not dependant on money our anything this world has to offer.

Many know God's will and don't do it.

Luke 12:47 And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes.

People will CLOKE themselves with false righteousness, joy and peace. The source of which is deceitful and passing away.

John 15:22 If I had not come and spoken unto them, they had not had sin: but now they have no CLOKE for their sin.

1Pet 2:15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men: As free, and not using your liberty for a CLOKE of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.

May God help these people to see Jesus and find the true riches in this life.

sermonindex Feb 28, 2016

Followup:

We don't put on "good thoughts", we put on Christ.

Christ is the source of all blessing, and the source of godly thoughts which are the only good thoughts.

Also, money is not evil, the "love of money is evil".

So, we don't get to judge those who are poor or those who are rich. We can however, judge ourselves, where we are at regarding the love of money.

J

JFW Feb 28, 2016

Amen to what brother Julius said!

Brother Doug,

I can relate to your plight as it had, at one time, a hold on me as it seems it does you.
Yes there are "laws of attraction" and such that people can tap into,... "Rich is a state of mind" etc... But at what expense?
Like you I have associates that have become so wealthy in earthly riches that they have achieved a "liquid" state of economics. An example is one of my clients husband already has 4 private planes and purchased a 5th for over $35,000,000 and just "wrote a check" like I would for groceries. They get invited to dine with the Bush family in their home and tell tales of such events all while wearing enough diamonds to fund a small city for a few months. But you know what,... They are miserable and I honestly feel so bad for them. It's a trap. I love them and minister the gospel to them at every opportunity and while there are immediate results/fruit, the gospel for them doesn't appear as secure as their money does, so in the end the money wins tho it can't and doesn't bring them eternal peace or security or hope or prosperity,... just a "sugar" high that doesn't satisfy.
I'm not suggesting one can't be financially wealthy and walk with the Lord but I will say that God is not a means to an end but is Himself the end.
From your words it appears that you imagine Him to be a means to your financial goals and that if achieved or exceeded you'd "fit in" with your colleagues and feel more at ease,... But ask yourself, is that really true?
Jesus says, he who makes himself first will be made last and he who makes himself last will be made first, the least shall be the greatest, etc...
Is that the mindset you are approaching your financial goals with?
Are you seeking earthly riches to advance the kingdom through charity or to prodigally spend upon oneself?
Again I can empathize with you as it is a strong temptation to pursue these things but in the end they only tantalize you and leave you wanting more. The bible calls that greed dear brother and admonishes us to pursue rather the good of our neighbor at the expense of ourselves. That is the kingdom of God.

Jesus has some sobering words for those that find their security in their earthly possessions as more often than not they find themselves possessed by the things they covet, unwilling to part from them- ie; Luke 18:18-25

And then of course these words of our savior:
Revelation 3:17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.
19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

May the Lord use these tests to strengthen you and use you as a light unto the feet of those round about you to find Him who is truly able to make them rich+:)

D

dougr777 Feb 28, 2016

Thank you, this is very helpful!

can someone help me understand this scripture?

"As he thinketh within himself, so is he." [Proverbs 23:7]

sermonindex Feb 28, 2016

Luke 6:43-45

For a good tree bringeth not forth corrupt fruit; neither doth a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

For every tree is known by his own fruit. For of thorns men do not gather figs, nor of a bramble bush gather they grapes.

A good man out of the good treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is good; and an evil man out of the evil treasure of his heart bringeth forth that which is evil: for of the abundance of the heart his mouth speaketh.

Who is our ROOT, is vital. Are we rooted in the Lord?

It is all about the heart and what is in it (the treasure that it desires) and what is in it is dependant on whether we have a new heart or not... joined to the Lord.

Luke 12:34 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also.

Luke 12:15 And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth.

We are not told to beware of mammon, but rather to beware of covetousness. We are to be faithful with mammon. So, the object is not whether we have mammon or not, but rather our heart attitude towards it. And our heart should be the Lord's heart towards ALL things in this world.

Notice that Jesus is highlighting "faithfulness", and not mammon.

Luke 16:11 If therefore ye have not been faithful in the unrighteous mammon, who will commit to your trust the true riches?

J

JFW Feb 28, 2016

\t
1 When thou sittest to eat with a ruler, consider diligently what is before thee:
2 And put a knife to thy throat, if thou be a man given to appetite.
3 Be not desirous of his dainties: for they are deceitful meat.
4 Labour not to be rich: cease from thine own wisdom.
5 Wilt thou set thine eyes upon that which is not? for riches certainly make themselves wings; they fly away as an eagle toward heaven.
6 Eat thou not the bread of him that hath an evil eye, neither desire thou his dainty meats:
7 For as he thinketh in his heart, so is he: Eat and drink, saith he to thee; but his heart is not with thee.
8 The morsel which thou hast eaten shalt thou vomit up, and lose thy sweet words.
9 Speak not in the ears of a fool: for he will despise the wisdom of thy words.

Well taken contextually its sayin (to me) that he is evil in his heart and so not to desire what he has as its a fruit of his evil/deceptive heart...
Tho I'm aware this verse gets pulled out of context and used allot as a stand alone truth- not saying that's wrong so much as the context frames the application but I believe it can/does work both ways.
Hope that helps:)

sermonindex Feb 28, 2016

You brought up the often used "as a man thinketh” scripture. If you see this, it could really change everything!

That scripture is almost always incorrectly used, since hardly anyone notices its context. The normal way of using it, is that your "thinking mind” controls who you are. In other words, your conceptual knowledge, your doctrines, the "teaching” we live by, etc. But that is not the context of the scripture where it is found in Proverbs. It helps to read it in its context to get its really, much more glorious meaning than, "how you think controls how you are.

"As a man thinks in his heart, so is he" (Prov. 23:7). The meaning of this proverb has been much debated. Does it mean that a man's identity is established by his thinking? Though Descartes' statement, "I think, therefore I am," posited human thought as the basis of our existence, we cannot accept the essentialism that suggests who we are is based on how we think. Neither should we give way to a behavioral determinism whereby having entertained a thought, we cry out, "Oh no, I am a murderer, a thief, a rapist." Fleeting thoughts sometimes flood our mind, but these are the solicitous thoughts of the tempter, whereupon the living Word of Christ will divide between the "thoughts and intents" of our heart (Heb. 4:12). Neither do a man's thoughts portend a potentialism whereby the mind is the creative source of human action. The "positive thinking" of Norman Vincent Peale, and the subsequent "possibility thinking" of Robert Schuller are based on the humanistic premise of auto-generation or self-actualization. "What you can conceive, you can achieve. Visualize and actualize. Reckon and realize." These are the fallacious mottoes of the self-potential gurus who fail to understand the derivative function of man. The proverb of Solomon most likely means that "as a man thinks or reckons within his soul, so he is in the behavioral expression of the spiritual character that indwells him." Jesus stated it more clearly, "The good man out of his good treasure brings forth what is good, and the evil man out of his evil treasure brings forth what is evil" (Matt. 12:35). The Christian has "this treasure (the indwelling Lord Jesus Christ) in earthen vessels, that the surpassing greatness of the power may be of God and not from ourselves" (II Cor. 4:7). Our thoughts become the point where behavior is put in motion and mobilized, or transformed into action. Established attitudes and thought patterns allow the Christian to behave as who he has become in Christ, allowing the character of Christ to be re-presented in his life. On the other hand, inconsistent thoughts allow for the mobilization of behavior that is a misrepresentation of the character of Christ, i.e. sinful. This interpretation of behavior expressionism is apparently the import of the proverb.

J

JFW Feb 29, 2016

Brother Tuc,

That's good stuff:)

That's what I was attempting to say but you did it much better!