…10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret.….
This seems to apply to those out side the church Eph. 5"11
Are you talking about unsaved outside the church?
If you are, I do not think that this chapter is talking about the unsaved but I could be wrong.
Leading up to verse 11, the Word states in verses 8-10, "for at one time you were darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light (for the fruit of light is found in all that is good and right and true), and try to discern what is pleasing to the Lord."
I don't know, I think we should be concerned about exposing the unfruitful deeds of darkness in our own life, allowing the Lord to open our eyes exposing them to ourselves. "None so blind as those who will not see," so to speak.
My Bible reads that Paul confronted Peter to his face and then wrote about the incident to the church in Galatia (Read Galatians, the whole 2nd chapter).
That's just one "Biblical" example.
The bottom line is (to me) is that it's all about motive. Walk in the fear of God, be led by the Spirit, have the mind of Christ, love God with your whole being, and your neighbor as yourself, and if God has wriiten His law upon your heart then walk in the Light as He is in the Light.
Yes Lisa , I think with out doubt this is talking about the unsaved and the dangerous life that the theses and the deceives live ,,,rather then participate in there evil live, expose it and warn others ,scince we our selfs have been led out ....., we should be concerned about out own hearts ,and ask God to try our hearts and thank god that he has given us exlent preaches who convict us when or if we stray ,extra,,,,,,,,
But to be honest with the above verse ,is why I posted it ,,,,it says exposes them .......,,,,
The reason we no it is talking about the unsaved ,is because of those early verses it speaks of being in the darkness ,,,
Yes, it says "expose them" (not expose yourself, though openess about your own sin is a good thing, that's not what this verse is speaking on in context).
Both Great thoughts/comments YeshuaBoy. I agree whole heartedly!
I wish you used spell-check brother gary!
The unsaved doesn't read the Bible, the Bible is for God's children. I guess it really depends on how one believes if once a person gets saved, they are perfect and don't sin.
Do you not think that saved men and women "participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness?" How many Christian men (and women) love God and yet still watch porn and have a lust problem? This is just one example of "participating in the unfruitful deeds of darkness."
And jeffmar, my comment about being concerned about exposing ourselves was along the lines of 'getting the moat out of our own eye before trying to get the toothpick out of our brothers."
Yea me and blain need a better spell check ,,,pray for us ..
I'm not getting the point your making Lisa ...
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them;, ,, Us ,,, and partakers with them
We were at one time children of wrath just as the others ,,,,,,,the contrast to these terms uses by Paul . Children of wrath ,and sons of disobedience is children of God ,,,,John makes it clear in his letters that those that practice sin are not of God ,but those that sin are of the devil.....
Eph 5"5.
5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
Lysa, you are right on. Eph 5 is warning the church about those who call themselves Christians and participate in the unfruitful works of darkness.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
And many are deceived today and walking in a false security because they have been taught that if you sin just ask God for forgiveness and He will forgive you because He really did not mean that we can actually be overcomers, sin not and walk in holiness.
That is why there is so much sin tolerated in the Church. Tolerated by false teaching of grace and forgiveness and salvation.
I think some times the addition of chapters in the bible make it harder to get the context or thrust of a point being made . That's why regarding the verses we are speaking about ,one needs to go into the early chapter ,where Paul makes it clear he is speaking about unsaved Gentiles .....
17So this I say, and affirm together with the Lord, that you walk no longer just as the Gentiles also walk, in the futility of their mind, 18being darkened in their understanding, excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardness of their heart;…
The next few verses speak ofthe unsaved gentile and the former natural man and his evil passions...
19Having lost all sensitivity, they have given themselves over to sensuality so as to indulge in every kind of impurity, and they are full of greed.
20That, however, is not the way of life you learned 21when you heard about Christ and were taught in him in accordance with the truth that is in Jesus. 22You were taught, with regard to your former way of life, to put off your old self, which is being corrupted by its deceitful desires; 23to be made new in the attitude of your minds; 24and to put on the new self, created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness.
I take it as saying you are now born-again by the Spirit of Christ and should no longer walk in the flesh (as the Gentiles walk), because you can walk in the flesh, but this is not the way of life that you have learned in Christ Jesus. He is speaking about walking as a Christian and using the way Gentiles walk as an example of how a Christian should not walk.
Put off the old self (Gentiles don't do this), put on the new self (only Christians can do this).
Anyway Gary, God bless, that is how I see it. We are not to go around exposing the unbelievers (kicking them while they are already down), and we are not to fellowship with unrepentant Christians who are walking as Gentiles walk (in the flesh).
I agree that he is using the Gentiles as an example of how not to live,that was my point ,,,,but in in the next chapter , he says therefore ,, linking the next chapter ,which shows the context in which he was speaking ......
1Therefore be imitators of God, as beloved children; 2and walk in love, just as Christ also loved you and gave Himself up for us, an offering and a sacrifice to God as a fragrant aroma.
3But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of these things the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience. 7Therefore do not be partakers with them; 8for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light 9(for the fruit of the Light consists in all goodness and righteousness and truth), 10trying to learn what is pleasing to the Lord. 11Do not participate in the unfruitful deeds of darkness, but instead even expose them; 12for it is disgraceful even to speak of the things which are done by them in secret. 13But all things become visible when they are exposed by the light, for everything that becomes visible is light.......
So when he says ,instead expose them ,it is clear that he is talking those Gentiles in the previous chapter ,,,,,what he means by expose them , is not entirely Clear.. .....
Weather it be through preaching ,or witnessing or warning others about the dreaded lifestyle ,or all three ,,,the teaching to expose them is the word of God weather it fits our ideas or not ........,it worth considering the rather then slinging rebukes at those who actually believe and practice this teaching ...... Not saying your doing that ,,,but Iv seen people do it here ,and some how they think they are better for not doing it ,,, a little aragent I think ....
God bless you too
It's cool, bro. I appreciate your perspective, too. Maybe a balance of both perspectives as the Spirit leads, what do you think?
Definitely , not against that brother ....
brogary wrote:
...it is clear that he is talking those Gentiles in the previous chapter..
But I understand your drift Gary, but my personal belief is that the Bible is written for the those who name the name of Christ and if the unsaved hear it and apply to themselves, the so be it.
BUT let me say this, I don't want to pigeon-hole God into what He can or cannot do!! He's God, He will do exactly what He wants to do while my belief system crumbles at His feet!! (And it's happened before)!
Sermonindex is a wonderful place where men AND women can come together (outside of church) to reason together the mysteries of God whether in agreement or not!
Love you brother, in Christ!
Lisa
Yep I'm hearing ya,,,love ya in Christ
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