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Homosexuality sin the same as gluttony?

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dougr777 Mar 7, 2016

can someone help me understand how God's sees sexual sin in scripture? Is homosexual sin, fornication, adultery, etc. the same as wanting to eat too many Twinkies? Thanks! Doug

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dolfan Mar 7, 2016

No. It is not the same.

https://someonehastosay.wordpress.com/2015/02/05/a-letter-to-my-young-friend-paul/

sermonindex Mar 7, 2016

Sin is sin in the fact that all sin is transgression of the law & all sin will keep you from the Lord, & that all sin can be covered by the blood of Christ!

But for those who now overstep the scriptures to try to prove that all sins are equal in God's sight: that's just not true or Biblical. When Jesus said that "if you look at a woman to lust after her, you have committed adultery in your heart already", I don't think he was saying that if a man catches himself "over-glancing" with a second look at a woman's form/body in tight clothes IT IS EXACTLY THE SAME SIN as sleeping with her. Although it can still be sin, to give it equality with the acting out of consummating adultery is overstepping it. Or to say that if you get angry at someone, it's EXACTLY THE SAME AS stabbing them in the heart to death. It's not. Jesus' point was that he sees what's in the heart & can still be sin.

Likewise, if you read all of scripture, you see that God hates sin in all its forms, but there are certain sins that really try the Lord's patience to a greater degree. The taking of the blood of the innocent is one that stands out if you read through the entire NT. To say eating too many twinkles every day is somehow "equal" to an abortion doctor slaughtering babies every day is ludicrous. Both are sinful. Both are forgivable under the blood by repentance & faith in Christ. But both are not "equal" in God's eyes. Just not the case.

sermonindex Mar 7, 2016

I meant especially "if you read through the entire OT"

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JHerndon Mar 8, 2016

If the wages of sin is death then I would say how can he see sins differently if the punishment is the same? Sin is sin. Sin separates man from God. Now the physical consequences are most def not the same. Gluttony and homosexuality may both bring separation from God without the blood of Christ but gluttony and homosexuality would bring two totally different physical consequences. The glutton would face totally different difficulties than the homosexual.

sermonindex Mar 8, 2016

When you read through "all of" the scriptures, it's clear that any sin will bring death, but God does not see all sin "equally". Jesus even said, "they've committed THE GREATER sin" who have sinned against more light (& would receive more lashes, etc.). So any sin is big enough to separate you from God & need the blood to cover & no sin is too big to cover, but not all sin is "equal" in God's eyes.

Scripture shows this in principle & direct scriptures throughout, but common sense: do you think God sees a 5-yr old stealing a $.05 piece of Bubble game the same as someone beating, torturing, & raping an innocent young child for Allah? Of course not. Or a monetary off moment when a child or spouse responds to a husband/father in a less than respectful manner of speech/tone as the same as the molesting of a child? Or eating too many twinkles the same as aborting & murdering an innocent child in the womb?

All A resounding - of course not!

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TMK Mar 8, 2016

Yet both the unrepentant "light" sinner and the unrepentant "horrible" sinner will be tortured in hell for all eternity...ahem.

sermonindex Mar 8, 2016

(this is one of Seven "Penitential Psalms", that were used as "liturgy" in the early Church, it is beautiful, it is soul wrenching, it is comforting, it is full of grace AND Reverentially Aweful of God, it is grist for secret prayer)

Psalm 32
"a maskil of David"


Blessed is the one whose transgression is forgiven,
whose sin is covered.


Blessed is the man against whom the Lord counts no iniquity,
and in whose spirit there is no deceit.

For when I kept silent, my bones wasted away
through my groaning all day long.


For day and night your hand was heavy upon me;
my strength was dried up[b] as by the heat of summer. Selah


I acknowledged my sin to you,
and I did not cover my iniquity;
I said, "I will confess my transgressions to the Lord,”
and you forgave the iniquity of my sin. Selah

Therefore let everyone who is godly
offer prayer to you at a time when you may be found;
surely in the rush of great waters,
they shall not reach him.

You are a hiding place for me;
you preserve me from trouble;
you surround me with shouts of deliverance. Selah


I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you with my eye upon you.


Be not like a horse or a mule, without understanding,
which must be curbed with bit and bridle,
or it will not stay near you.

Many are the sorrows of the wicked,
but steadfast love surrounds the one who trusts in the Lord.


Be glad in the Lord, and rejoice, O righteous,
and shout for joy, all you upright in heart!


sermonindex Mar 8, 2016

That is true TMK. That is true. But to the OP's point/question, there seems to be "by degrees" based on "some will be beaten with few stripes, some with many..", "it will be better (or more tolerable) for Tyre & Sidon on that day than for you...", etc. So, Yes, I'd rather be a "Pauper" in heaven than anywhere in hell, but the fact is that all sin is sin, but not all sins are EQUAL in God's sight. I hear this a lot these days & it always bothers my spirit because I know the scriptures do not bear out such a view.
God Bless,
Jeff

sermonindex Mar 8, 2016

Neil,
I love Sherri Youngward's worship album (as I do most all of her stuff) called "Scripture Songs". She has one from this psalm called "Songs of Deliverance". Love it. I actually woke up this morning from a long vivid dream with that song playing in the background of my mind/heart! If you haven't heard it, look it up on YouTube. Good stuff. Just straight scripture put to worship music quite beautifully.
God Bless,
Jeff

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MaryJane Mar 8, 2016

Greetings Neil

This is beautiful. I very much appreciate it. Thank you for sharing this with us here. I pray you are continuing to feel better :)

Edited :)

God bless
maryjane

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JHerndon Mar 9, 2016

Please don't misunderstand my tone. This is a sincere question. How does God view sins differently? If all sin brings separation and all sin needs the blood for forgiveness then how does he view sins differently? I understand the scriptures being quoted and all of that but what does it mean if some sins are greater than others? If all sin brings the same consequence then I don't understand how some are greater than others unless like I mentioned earlier you are comparing spiritual consequences and physical consequences

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TMK Mar 9, 2016

Hey Joshua-

The argument is that some people in hell will be tortured less qualitatively if not temporally; i.e. Some people - the lesser sinners--will get "hell lite" albeit for all eternity.

J
JFW Mar 9, 2016

Maybe this is what is being referenced...
1 John 5:
6 If any man see his brother sin a sin which is not unto death, he shall ask, and he shall give him life for them that sin not unto death. There is a sin unto death: I do not say that he shall pray for it.
17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

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twayneb Mar 9, 2016

I think something that has to be considered in this discussion is how we define and speak about sin and sins. Why does a person chose a homosexual lifestyle? Why does a person live as a glutton? Why does a person commit fornication? Why does a person live their lives committing acts of sin?

I think the answer is because he is a sinner. In other words, we tend to focus on the acts that are committed, as if those acts are what separated us from God. But the actions of sin are not what caused the separation. They are the symptoms, the evidence if you will, of the root problem. The root is original sin. The fruit is envy, jealousy, malice, fornication, gluttony, homosexuality, etc.

Romans 4 and 5 speak a lot of God imputing righteousness to us through faith and no longer imputing sin to us. As a believer who has been born again, I have passed from death to life. I have not only been forgiven of past sins, but I have been made righteous by the blood of Jesus. This righteousness does not disappear if I commit an act of sin. But at the same time, because I am born again, I am not going to want to commit those acts. I have been made a new man.

I have a feeling that many people who claim to follow Christ have never truly been born again. Jesus spoke of this when He said that many would claim to have known Him, but He will have to say, "Depart from Me!" If a man is born again, there will be a marked change in the way he lives his life. In other words, the root of righteousness will cause a totally new kind of fruit to be born by this person, and that fruit is holiness. Holiness is a separation from the world and it's thoughts and deeds and a separation unto Christ and His thoughts and deeds. This holiness is evidenced or demonstrated in action. So a believer lives differently.

I am born again in my spirit, I am in the process of renewing my mind, and I still live in an unregenerate body, the flesh. My flesh sometimes desires things that it used to do. This is where temptation comes from. Does the word not tell us that we are drawn away of our OWN lusts and enticed? As I am in the process of being renewed, there may be a time when I give in to one of these temptations. If I am truly born again, my reaction to this event will be sorrow and repentance. But the action did not destroy the work that God did in my through the rebirth. I am not now made unrighteous or no longer right with God because of that action.

Although there is that one moment in time where we repent, die to self, and are born again; that one moment when we are "saved", salvation is not a one time shot, like purchasing a train ticket to heaven. Salvation is an ongoing process. It has a beginning, but the completion awaits the return of the Lord. Find all of the scriptures that speak of enduring to the end, about continuing steadfast, about working out your salvation. It is possible to turn back. This is why, as believer, we must always be vigilant about revenging our disobedience, about denying our flesh, about patient continuance. We will be a servant to that to which we yield ourselves, and we do not want to become a servant to the sin from which we have been set free. I am afraid that many have thought that repeating a list of words that we call the sinner's prayer is equal to salvation, but these people have never repented, never died to self, never taken up their crosses, and have never truly experienced the new birth.

So what does all of this have to do with the original question? To a lost man, I don't believe that we could say that any one sin is one bit worse than another in the eyes of God. God is not looking at the individual sins of the sinner and giving them a score. The issue is not their sins, but rather their sin. The issue is not what they do, but why they do it. They sin because they are unregenerate, dead in sin, and that is what sinners do. They will go to hell, not because they have committed an act of homosexuality, or lied, or have harbored jealousy, but rather because they have not turned from sin and received forgiveness and been reborn of the spirit.

But to a believer these things can have vastly different consequences. For example, I may not exercise the fruit of self-control, and I may continually overeat. The result is a physical body that is now racked with disease and disorder, a body that cannot stand the rigors of ministry, a body that will die early. But I don't think any of us would think that all overweight people who eat too much are going to hell because of this. Yet to become a servant to homosexual behavior is a totally different ballgame. There is a demonic or spiritual bondage in that behavior that will capture me and destroy me not necessarily physically, but spiritually. Perhaps this is a sin unto death as opposed to a sin not unto death.

Let me give another example. If I as a believer get into bitterness and unforgiveness, my own sins will not be forgiven. It is clear in scripture that unforgiveness will send me to hell, no questions asked. It is unequivocally clear. The same is true with homosexuality. Yet the same does not apply to gluttony or to envy. Some sins to death, some not to death.

And the consequences of sins here on earth are different as well. Pornography can destroy my wife and my marriage. Gluttony not necessarily so. And sexual sin is often, in scripture, put in its own special category. Why? Why would unforgiveness and sexual sin be classified differently from gluttony? Perhaps because forgiveness is the one thing that God had extended to us. Recall the man who owed the money and was forgiven yet would not forgive another man. And sex is such a beautiful picture of the intimacy that we have with God. It is that one thing with our husband or wife that is so wonderfully intimate. Our marriage to Christ should be just as open, just as free of barrier or pretense. To give ourselves sexually to anything other than our spouse is like giving ourselves unto other things than God. Sexual infidelity is a picture of idolatry.

Just my view. Hope it helps.

sermonindex Mar 9, 2016

Good thoughts Twayneb.

Some scriptures & scriptural principles:
In the OT LAW, there were sacrifices for "willful" sins & for "unintentional" sins (which were necessary, but lesser sacrifices). The Old Testament recognized different sacrifices for different sins. If all sins are equal, then different sacrifices would not be necessary. Instead, the Jews would only have needed one sacrifice to cover everything.

Luke 12
47 And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating. 48 But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

No one said anything about "hell-lite", but Jesus mentions severe & light beatings in this parable for those who do not do the will of the father (which other scriptures tell us indicate that we don't know & love Him) based on the light they have. There will be degrees of rewards in heaven, & Paul spoke of being caught up to "the third heaven" (where God's throne is), & there will be degrees of punishment in hell (the deepest darkness of Tartarus is reserved for the angels who rebelled & false teachers (clearly because they not only rejected God's authority for themselves, but led others away through deceit also).

Luke 10
13 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. 14 But it will be more bearable in the judgment for Tyre and Sidon than for you.

Clearly showing degrees of punishment based on light given. Otherwise, why would Jesus say it would "be more tolerable in the judgement for Tyre & Sidon" if both rejected the Lord in their day & so both were going to be condemned, if all sin were equal & all punishment meted out in hell were equal?

John 19
11Jesus answered him, "You would have no authority over me at all unless it had been given you from above. Therefore he who delivered me over to you has the greater sin.”

There goes Jesus again differentiating sins & calling ones sin "greater" than the other.

You see continually throughout the OT particularly that "the taking of the blood of the innocent" in the passing through the fires of the Molech's/Tophets is something that was a last straw sin that God would not ignore forever but would bring severe the most judgements to Israel on (through the Babylonians, Assyrians, etc.) at some point when repentance was not given, but persistence in such vile, wicked, abominable sin that not only affected the sinner, but an innocent baby taking their life & "playing God" whose sovereign role it is to give life & decide when it is taken back away.

No, all sins are not equal. We can quickly see this from Jesus' own words when He said in John 19:11, "You would have no authority over me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered me up to you has the greater sin."

Other Scriptures that verify this are also taught by Jesus when He said the following:

"Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had occurred in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 "Nevertheless I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment, than for you," (Matt. 11:21-22).
"the master of that slave will come on a day when he does not expect him, and at an hour he does not know, and will cut him in pieces, and assign him a place with the unbelievers. 47 "And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, shall receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few," (Luke 12:46-48).
Jesus clearly taught that there is a difference in the level of sins that we can commit. So, we can conclude there are sins that are worse than others by nature. We could easily say, for example, that stealing a paperclip is not as bad as murdering a group of people.

However, it also seems to be the case that knowledge affects the severity of sin as well:

"For if after they have escaped the defilements of the world by the knowledge of the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and are overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first 21 For it would be better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than having known it, to turn away from the holy commandment delivered to them," (2 Pet. 2:20-21).
Peter says that awareness of sin and intent are factors that affect whether or not sin is greater or lesser. This is supported by the Scripture that says, "Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin," (James 4:17).

All sin leads to damnation

Even though there are sins that are greater than other sins, all sin leads to eternal damnation. The reason sin does this is not because of the severity of the sin but because whom the sin is committed against. Since it is God who gives the law, when we sin, we break his law. Therefore, we are offending God, and our sin is against him. Since God is infinite, our sins take on an infinite quality.

This is why we need an infinitely valuable sacrifice, which is found in the person of Jesus who is God in flesh (John 1:1, 14).

And here's a short article on the subject back with scripture as well:

Are there different levels or degrees of sin?
by Matt Slick

Yes, there are different degrees of sin. Jesus said in John 19:11, "You would have no authority over Me, unless it had been given you from above; for this reason he who delivered Me to you has the greater sin.” The context is that Judas had betrayed Jesus, and so our Lord was before Pilate who said that he had the authority to crucify Jesus. Jesus said that the one who had delivered Him into Pilate's hands had the greater sin.

There are other verses that imply different degrees of sin. Please consider the following:

Luke 7:41-43, "A moneylender had two debtors: one owed five hundred denarii, and the other fifty. 42 When they were unable to repay, he graciously forgave them both. So which of them will love him more?” 43 Simon answered and said, "I suppose the one whom he forgave more.” And He said to him, "You have judged correctly.”
Luke 10:11-13, ‘Even the dust of your city which clings to our feet we wipe off in protest against you; yet be sure of this, that the kingdom of God has come near.’ 12 "I say to you, it will be more tolerable in that day for Sodom than for that city. 13 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the miracles had been performed in Tyre and Sidon which occurred in you, they would have repented long ago, sitting in sackcloth and ashes."
Luke 12:47-48, "And that slave who knew his master’s will and did not get ready or act in accord with his will, will receive many lashes, 48 but the one who did not know it, and committed deeds worthy of a flogging, will receive but few. From everyone who has been given much, much will be required; and to whom they entrusted much, of him they will ask all the more."
As you can see, Jesus taught that there are degrees of sin. But all sin separates us from God (Isaiah 59:2), and the wages of sin is death (Genesis 2:17, Romans 6:23). Christians should want to turn from sin and follow the Lord Jesus Christ.

We must understand that as there are differences in the degrees of sin, there are also differences in the degrees of the effects of sin and the punishments that will come to those who are not redeemed (Luke 12:47-48). As Christians, the severity of our sin can have different effects on us, and even though we are forgiven, the effects of our sin in this world are readily known.

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Elibeth Mar 9, 2016

Doug,

Concerning "gluttony",I find only two places in the NT,..that this is mentioned.
(Mt.11:19),..(where they accused Jesus).."The Son of man came eating and drinking,and they say,Behold a man gluttonous,and a winebibber,"....
and then again in (Mk.7:34)

Then in (Mt.15:10-11),He Tells the multitude,
"Hear and understand:Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man,but that which cometh out of the mouth,that defileth a man.


I have not been able to see where The Lord has said in His Word,that gluttony is a sin,unless it comes through the thoughts of the fruits of the Spirit. (Gal.5:22)

Which,if we have The Spirit,..then we are to have these fruits working in our life.
And the one of these that I am thinking of is:"self-control".

also,Please do not think,that I am saying that gluttony is ok,or good.
I am not.

I am saying what The Word /Jesus' emphasess was on it.

Not so with the Word,Homosexuality.

elizabeth

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brothagary Mar 9, 2016

Elizabeth said what I was thinking ,,,, some sins are clear and given much light through scripture and others not so much , gluttony not so much ,I dare say as one matures those sins that are not Cleary taught ,or revealed in scripture ,become more important as we become more versed in scripture ,and desire to me come more Christ like ,as the spirit work convicts us more deeply ..

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brothagary Mar 9, 2016

Elizabeth said what I was thinking ,,,, some sins are clear and given much light through scripture and others not so much , gluttony not so much ,I dare say as one matures those sins that are not Cleary taught ,or revealed in scripture ,become more important as we become more versed in scripture ,and desire to me come more Christ like ,as the spirit work convicts us more deeply ..

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Elibeth Mar 10, 2016

Thank you Bro.Gary,I do agree.

And we know as we draw close to God,He will draw close to us .

elizabeth

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