Prayer and support for Ken Miller

Dear brothers and sisters,
In the middle of the night I awakened and clicked onto the Godly Music section in the audio files here on sermonindex. I saw the Ken Miller Family singers and listened to this lovely Mennonite acapella choir. Then I wondered if this was the same pastor who is going to prison for aiding the mother who came to Christ who left her homosexual sin and marriage.

Pastor Miller, as a man of God, gave she and her daughter (she had been the surrogate mother) sanctuary and helped her relocate to Argentina.

Upon finding the millercase.org website I saw the news that Pastor Miller wrote his last letter before prison on Tuesday March 22, 2016. There are pictures of him saying goodbye to the congregation at Pilgrim Christian Fellowship in Stuart's Draft ,VA.

I clicked onto the family singers and indeed this is the same family that Greg had in the Godly Music section.

The Lord woke me up to pray for Ken Miller and his family. He has a wife and 6 children and the community will come together to support them as these dear Mennonite people do.

Our government has turned against Christians. It is ironic, yet most Christlike that once again a Mennonite believer suffers persecution willingly.

Once again, you can get the update on:

millercase.org

and the family singing hymns is even more lovely than the early ones here on SI

Respectfully in Christ,
Leslie

Leslie I have linked article and sent out on my distribution networks. We will be praying for him tonight on our call.

I went to the Millercase.org. Sister I was not able to find a link to the music you referenced. I would love to listen to the their music. Can you tell me where to find the music link.

Brother Blaine

This is a very sad and interesting case. I have nothing but respect for Ken Miller as a man of God and a man of great convictions and I applaud him for what he did.

However, he broke the law. Pure and simple and so did Lisa Miller. I am not defending the law at all, just learning the details of this case.

The law as bad as it is, stated that because of the civil union with the other woman, that other woman had child custody privileges. In circumventing the laws that makes Lisa a lawbreaker and there are consequences. According to the law and the prosecutors of the law, Ken Miller aided and abetted kidnapping. This is why he has been sentenced to 27months in prison.

Are these laws of man right and fair? One could argue easily in this case, NO WAY!

Are the prosecutors fair and are they showing grace and mercy in this case? I do not understand all the details so I do not know if 27mths is a light sentence or not? But we do know that wicked people prosper and escape justice on a daily basis and existing laws on our books are ignored millions of times in a million cases. There is nothing right or fair about human laws in circumstances like this and we can surmise that it is satan who has stirred up the men to go after Ken Miller in this case. In all this we do know however that the Lord is in control and is allowing satan to appear as if he is getting the upper hand, but it is all for the Lords purposes and His will is being done in Kens life.

But these laws, rightly or wrongly are on the books and they say that if you enter into a civil union and or a marriage you must abide by the laws thereof. And the outcome of this is that we do not get to be the only one to dictate the welfare of shared children.

There are many circumstances similar to this case where someone did something that they regret BEFORE they came to know Christ. Should we counsel them to skirt their responsibilities and go around the law? What would we say to a father who gets saved and begins to live for Christ but his wife rejects Christ and leaves him for another man and begins to live a wicked and vile lifestyle? Should that christian father submit to the laws of the land and share custody with his ex-wife? Or should he flee and (in the eyes of the law) kidnap his children and become a fugitive?

I do not know the answer to that question and I am not condemning Ken Miller for what he did, please let me be clear in this.

So what then is the issue? None really, we are just going to have to accept that to obey God rather than man is probably going to wind us up in hot water and maybe some of us will even lose our heads one day:-) Its not hard to see how all this will pan out as new and despicable laws are put on the books to corner Christians in their beliefs and a stand for a higher law. One day it will become unlawful to do many things in obedience to Christ. Until then let us thank God for what religious liberties we have left.

Let us continue to pray for this dear brother and his family. I am confident that God is being glorified in this whole ordeal and that He has great things in store for all as a result of this.

The brother, Ken Miller, is aware that he has violated the law. But then this brother comes from an Anabaptist heritage where his forefathers have suffered for their faith in Christ. The Anabaptist suffered for their belief that believers and believers alone were to be baptized. They did not believe in the baptism of infants. Yet state law in those nations that were Protestant and Catholic mandated that babies be baptized. This was done mainly for tax purposes. So the Anabaptists were aware that disobeying this law would result in their death. And history does record that many died for their faith in Christ by refusing to baptize infants and baptized only believers in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I believe out of that tradition and his conscience Ken Miller chose to help Lisa Miller and pay the consequences of his actions.

Many of us remember the story of Corrie Ten Boom. Against the Nazi edicts at the time. She and her family hid Jews that were on the Nazi death watch. She and her family also paid a price.

Brother I believe that we as Believers in America will also have to ask yourself the question. Will we obey God rather than man. Realizing the price that may be required of us.

Just my thoughts brother.

Blaine

Yes brother Blaine I realize that Ken knows now that he violated the law, but one wonders if he knew that at the time?

I probably wouldn't have know that if it was me. And it seems that he might have been acting out of ignorance too because he drew several others into the plot as well. If he knew the seriousness of the crime I doubt he would have knowingly made others his accomplices.

It is a dilemma for sure and one that very few of us have ever had to face in this country. I find the ruling of the judge quite interesting, here is what he said:

"The room was quiet as the judge spoke for some time to an attentive audience- first about the seriousness and sadness of the offense, but then also about his respect and admiration for Ken's faith and character. He said he does not feel Ken is being sentenced for his religion, but for actions contrary to the law. As one whose responsibility it is to uphold the laws and to protect the system of law in this country, he also finds himself in a dilemma. Many people commit crimes in the name of religion (even murder), and if we discard the criminal justice system because of everyone's personal beliefs, we will have anarchy- a country without laws. He finds it painful and hard, but this court must enforce the law which exists."

It is such a complicated matter and I understand the judges sentiments. What is at issue is the horrible laws of man that are in effect, that a lesbian woman can even contend for a moment that she shares that child with Lisa? Insanity. The whole mess is satanic and an attack on Gods people, that much I am certain of. Look for much, much more of this down the road!

One other thing I read was that Ken was asked if he would do it all over again...aid in the kidnapping of a child. He gave a truthful answer but it was vague and worrisome for the judge which probably is what caused him to be given the maximum sentence of 27mths. In the eyes of the law they are concerned about repeat offences.

Regarding Corrie Ten Boom, I don't think this situation rises to that level brother. The Jews were being exterminated. In this case, we are dealing with child custody laws. And laws and situations that are not too uncommon. All sorts of people for all sorts of reasons want to get out of sharing their children with an ex-spouse. What are the courts to do...be partial?

Would it be fair for a non-christian to kidnap their child because they did not want to share it with a "crazy/extreme christian" spouse?

Certainly a dilemma if you are a christian judge thats for sure.

So what about Lisa Miller? Should she remain a fugitive? If she ever returned she would probably face harsh justice and the child would suffer as a result and probably never be returned to her. That is all conjecture on my part but I am sure she is thinking these things as well. And she is still being hunted, actively pursued by the US authorities.

More than anything I feel for this woman and her child...may the Lord continue to protect and guide her!

Granted brother this is a complicated case. And the case that causes us to ask the difficult question. Where do we draw the line and say we must obey God rather than men?

Here is a scenario. And one that may very well come to play out if a certain candidate is elected president. If the government deemed that Muslims residing in this country were a threat to National Security. And they were being rounded up and sent to FEMA like camps. Perhaps camps where they would be executed. Because the government has passed laws that Muslims are a threat to National Security.

Let's say there's a Muslim family living next door to you. You have been trying to reach out to this family with the love of Jesus Christ. All of a sudden you find yourself in the situation where you must report them to the authorities. Knowing that if you report them to the authorities they will lose their lives. And let's say this family turns to you and ask for help. What would your response be?

Brother I do not believe these are intellectual questions. But questions we will have to ask ourselves in the not-too-distant future as to where do we draw the line and say we must obey God rather than men? And be prepared to count the cost for radical obedience to Christ. This I believe is the message of the Ken Miller case to us. Whatever the situation may be. We are commanded to love our neighbor. But loving our neighbor may well come with a steep price. But then did Jesus not pay a steep price for us to have redemption in Him?

Simply my thoughts and reflections.

Brother appreciate you. Respectfully posted.

Brother Blaine

Also I do agree brother. We need to pray for all involved in this case. The Ken Miller family. The Lisa Miller family. And for the judge and Janet Jenkins.

Indeed we need to keep this in prayer.

Blaine

Todd this is more than a custody battle of a same-sex couple. There were allegations of sexual abuse by the former parent, Janet Jenkins When Isabel would go to visit Janet Jenkins, she would come back from the visitation and tell her mother, Lisa, she felt like kilng herself.

I do not want to go into the explicit details on a public forum. But allegations did emerge that Janet Jenkins inappropriately touched the daughter. This being the case Lisa Miller became concerned and sought the help of a Mennonite community. Believing that in the political correct climate of our country she would not find redress through the justice system. Also Lisa believing that if Janet had continued visit rights toward the daughter she would be harmed.

I might add that the allegations of sexual abuse were not admitted in the defense of Ken Miller.

One must ask the question to what extent will a mother go to protect her child. Lisa caring the embryo and giving birth to Isabel was willing to take what steps necessary to protect her daughter. Even to the point of violating federal law. Just because it is federal law, does not mean that it is a just law. Particularly in the eyes of God.

We cannot assume in this politically correct climate that one will see Justice through the American justice system system. Perhaps I'm being a bit cynical. But in the times that we are living in. The American justice system is hostile toward the things of Christ. Indeed the American justice system is hostile toward common sense. For if we had employed common sense. You would not see children being raised by two men or two women reported to be married in the eyes of God.

Brother this is respectfully posted. And as usual these are my thoughts. Which could very well land me in jail.

Brother Blaine

Todd nor will I turn you in either bro. :-) The case is a complicated one. If your research it on the internet. And certainly go to the miller case.org I think more facts will begin to emerge.

Thinking of starting a thread on political correctness. I do not want to take away from what Leslie has started on this thread. And that is to pray for a brother who will be serving time in prison. Certainly to pray that God would use him in the lives of prisoners who need to hear about Jesus. And certainly to pray for his family to be strengthened. Pray that the judge and Janet Jenkins will come to a saving faith and life in the Lord Jesus Christ.

When this case first started I believe Ken Miller was defended by David Burko who wrote The Kingdom Turned Upside Down. Don't know if that means anything. But felt led to put this in a poat.

By the way Todd are you a lawyer? Only ask because you mentioned bar exam. I facilitate CLE seminars myself.

Posted with a :-).

Brother Blaine

Brothers

Regarding the previous question concerning whether it is permissable to conceal those who are being sought by murderers, my belief is that it is, even to the point of lying (witness Rahab) because by doing so you are preventing a much greater crime.

Brenda that is an excellent insight regarding rehab. Welcome back to the form dear sister.

Blaine

Thank you dear Blaine.

Thanks Blaine, Todd, Mark and Brenda for filling in with so much.
Blaine the music on millercase.org is on the far right hand side of the screen where there are other topics. On SI it is under audio listings under music. I listen to Aileen Gilcrest there too.

It was important to mention that the original judge in the divorce/custody case ignored Lisa's fear about sexual abuse of her daughter. No wisdom of Solomon there. She fled to protect her daughter. What a can of worms Satsn has wrought with this lawless legalization of same sex marriage.

I urge all of you to watch Dennis Jernigan's testimony in 'Sing Over Me'. As a young boy, a man exposed himself to him in a bathroom and he was drawn into sexual activity with other young boys. Then in college a Christisn leader made a sexual advance on him and things went from bad to worse until the torment nearly drove him to suicide. He was born again in 1981 and God delivered him from this sin. It is a very moving and glorious testimony and he has a ministry to those trapped in homosexuality, but we must pray for those who are set free for now they can be called 'hateful' for telling of their deliverance from sin. And it does no good to rant and rave against those trapped in this sin for in doing so we may drive many to suicide as happened to a friend of my daughter's, Matthew Bardin, age 25. A young man who signed up recently on SI understands this, Michsel Liau.
Sis L

Hi sister Leslie,
For me at least the alleged sexual abuse is the kicker in all of this. And it makes perfect sense as to why Lisa fled like this. I imagine if this was my child and I was convinced that there was sexual abuse going on, I would also feel that I would have no other choice but to flee with the child and suffer the consequences.

I think Lisa did the right thing:-)

Yes Todd, it makes no sense that allegations of sexual abuse would be ignored by the courts. If they were real or there was evidence why wasn't CPS involved? Was there a case officer assigned? If not why not? If so, was a report given to the judge? Anyone know about this?

I don't mean to sound contradictory but we were discussing this as a family tonight and wondering if this really is religious persecution against a godly man as the reason why he was thrown into prison?

I am not so sure to be honest.

Would we say this about a non-believer or a Muslim who had aided and abetted a kidnapping?

Ken told the judge he broke the law on religious grounds. But did he? I thought it was to help the mother get her child out of a sexually abusive situation?

The law applies to everyone equally so on that basis I think it is reasonable to suggest that this DOES NOT qualify as religious persecution but is rather someone breaking kidnapping laws. That is the reason Ken Miller is in jail today. Doesn't make the laws right though and we should still pray for the family.

Perhaps someone smarter than me can show how this imprisonment is religious persecution...I am open to seeing other points of view, thanks.

Brother the Supreme Court has ruled that marriage is now between a man and a man and a woman and a woman. This is the law of the land. This is the law that has to be obeyed. This is a law that is now on the books.

So you are an evangelical pastor who believes that marriage is between a man and a woman. A same-sex couple comes to you for marriage. Can you obey the above law and perform a sanctified marriage for a same-sex couple. Can you obey the above law with a clear conscience. Particularly when the law of God is that marriage is between a man and a woman. Brother just because something is on the books and it is called federal law. Does not mean that the law is just in the eyes of God. Particularly in the case of two of the same sex who wish to be married.

Let us say that you are a Christian wedding caterer. You take a sanctified view of marriage as between a man and a woman. Your job is to provide services for weddings. Up until now your clients have been heterosexual couples. All of a sudden a same sex couple approaches you for services for a same sex wedding. Can you with a clear conscience provide those services knowing that God's word teaches that marriage is between a man and a woman? Yet federal law says you cannot discriminate against this couple.

Let us say that you run a Christian adoption agency. Your desire is to place children in a loving Christian home. That is a home where the parents are a man and a woman. All of a sudden you are approached by a same-sex couple who profess to be Christians who want to adopt. Federal law says you cannot discriminate against this couple. Yet you know the word of God teaches that a child is to be raised by a mother and a father. Not by a father and a father. Or a mother and a mother. Can you with a clear conscience provide adoption services do the same sex couple?

Brother I can go on with example after example. Just because there are federal laws on the books does not mean that these laws are enforced justly or with common sense. And in the case of same-sex marriage when these laws are enforced they go against the higher
law of God.

Brother in the examples I gave above one can argue Romans 13 and say that the evangelical pastor, Christian wedding caterer, or the Christian adoption agency owner should obey federal law. But then they have to wrestle with their conscience knowing that federal law is in violation of God's law.

But brother let's take it one step further. You are an evangelical pastor who faithfully expounds and preaches God's word from cover to cover. You come to Romans 1:18-32. You know there are laws on the books at the federal level that make hate speech against any group, this would be the LBGT illegal. You know in your heart of hearts that if you preach through Romans 1:17 thru 32 which describe the origins of homosexuality you could very well land in jail. What do you do? Do you avoid going through that section of scripture. And move on to Romans 2? Can you do this with a clear conscience?

Mark do you see. Just because there are federal laws on the books. These laws are not always just. Or enforced with a sense of justice.

Brother, in the early centuries of the church, the believers faithfully obeyed the just laws of the Roman government when they did not contradict with the laws of God. But when Caesar passed a law requiring he be recognized as God. And that a sacrifice be offered to him to show allegiance to Rome. The Christiane had to disobey this law with the consequences that it entailed. The consequences being that many lost their lives for their faith in Christ.

Brother we do honor Romans 13 and submit to the governing authorities. But submission to governing authorities must end when the laws of temporal government conflict with the higher Eternal laws with God. What that point would be for each person must be directed by the Holy Spirit. But there will come a point when we say we must obey God rather than man.

I do not know if I have addressed your qyestions. But I hope some of my thoughts help.

This is respectfully posted.

Brother Blaine