What kind of Doctrine is This?

Y

Yeshuasboy Apr 10, 2016

I was listening to this audio-sermon the other day that was recently posted on this site. Driving home from work, and listening to the message carefully, all of a sudden, I found this "doctrine" rise up out of the speaker's mouth -

Ralph Mahoney - Depart From Me, I Never Knew You, Part 1. Link is here: https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=27347
(49:38-50:40 into the message, is where you will find the quotes below):

"Those guys talked about in Matthew 7 who prophecied in His Name did many, mighty, supernatural works in His Name. What was there judgment?...Depart from Me, I never had any intimate, loving relationship with you. I don't think those fellas went to hell personally, if you believe they did well...Maybe they did or will, I don't know."

Now, here it is, the doctrine I am referring to - Continuing his message, he goes on:

"I think they were banished to the perimetre of heaven. They shall not come near to me, to minister unto me, but they'll minister at the gate, the outer court. And according to the Book of Hebrews, Moses' tabernacle is a pattern of things in the heavens, so I think heaven has its Holy place, and Holy of Holies, and outer court. And without elaborating on my reasons for that, there's a lot of biblical evidence to support it."

I posted this, because I am concerned with this particular doctrine that I have never heard before. I've listened to many George Warnock sermons here, but I have never heard him say that. Nor, have I ever heard it in the many puritan and reformation books I have, nor from Spurgeon or JC Ryle, Ravenhill, Rolfe Barnard, Willie Mullan, William Booth, Carter Conlon, the list goes on....However, I guess I just did (hear it in this message), and I'm greatly shocked.

So, of what "benefit" will such a doctrine as this help the saints and bring glory to God?

T

TMK Apr 10, 2016

I have never heard of the outer court thing.

I'll have to think about whether the verses have to mean they went to hell. Depends what "depart from me" means.

E

elected Apr 10, 2016

Hi Richie,

The preacher you mentioned is giving his own opinion. Does he give any biblical support to his opinion? Like other verses that prove that Depart from me means to depart from Christ from the inner temple to live in the outer temple?

Like the bereans we should examine every teaching or opinion from Scriptures, even godly men have their opinions that may not be biblical.

Do we need any better illustration to prove the veracity of Jesus when he said to these workers of iniquity dapart from me I never knew you that what is happening today in many churches?

There are 500 or 600 pentecostals and charismatics today in the world but few Christians among these movements are bearing fruit (a small minority is faithful to Christ). Coming out of a charismatic movement myself I have witnessed first hand the deception of the devil and counterfeit gifts or experiences.

I'm not throwing stones here but witnessing from my personal experience what I have seen in these movements but at the same time I don't agree with preachers like McArthur who lack true spiritual discernment and paint with a huge brush and concludes that the movement is just a stange fire and as a cessecionist that he is denying any supernatural gifts of the Spirit for today.

I have felt and experienced this strange fire and have resisted it and had to fight against this deception but at the same time when I was 18 years old, it was a charismatic godly missionary who led me to Christ. I know the movement from inside and I know how many have been deceived into thinking they are saved just because they spoke in tongues and experience some special feelings or experiences but there is no desire or longing in their heart to be holy as God is holy.

What better illustration we need than what is happening today.among many who are involved in the charismatic or Pentecostal movements to illustrate the words of Christ depart from me?

I see it clearly and its a sad fact that so many are being deceived wanting God for his gifts, for miracles and healings He can perform but there is no fruit bearing in their lives and they desire no holiness, which is indispensable to see the Lord. Jesus said blessed are the pure in heart for they shall see God.

But still we have to thank God that He has his chosen children among these movements who keep their garments clean and live godly lives honoring their Lord. Think of those poor chines charismatic brothers who witness and suffer for Jesus in the east like in China or other countries like Iran. They love Jesus and will even seal their witness for Him with their lives.

There is a minority of Christians among these movements that is faithful to the Lord and are nor workers of iniquity or been deceived by the evil one.

sermonindex Apr 11, 2016

Richie thanks so much for posting this sermon. I had never come across Ralph Mahoney before but have known about the doctrine of which he speaks since reading Watchman Nee' s The Normal Christian Life many years ago. Ralph says that this truth was squashed in China when the missionaries came from America.

The result of most believers rejecting it can be clearly seen in the Western church as he says with its lack of true spirituality. It is the result of working from the flesh after coming to Christ for salvation, and we all fall into that trap, like the Galatians.

We do not understand that flesh includes even our most zealous desires to serve God. But it must be 100% from Him.

His judgement is on flesh even religious flesh and when that doctrine is accepted, man can have his 'white funeral' as Oswald Chambers put it. Most will not 'hear' it though as the Holy Spirit convicts them of their less than Holy lives and particularly the zealous servers.

He keeps things hidden from the foolish though and will not provide verses so that they have no choice but to obey Him albeit without their heart in it so He gives us instead, patterns and shadows in the Old Testament so that the blind will continue in their blindness.

Those in the outer court hang on by a thread and that thread could snap at any time. If we are not in the Holy of Holies and have the confirmation of the HS inside, that God is pleased with our walk, and that we have reached our full stature in Christ, then we are living on the edge and there are plenty of scriptures to warn us.

When God's judgement came upon me, it was painful, but later l saw what a great blessing it was so that l could enter into His rest.

B

brothagary Apr 11, 2016

False doctrine is what it is called

sermonindex Apr 11, 2016

I do not believe in Matthew 7 those are Lord is referring to will go to heaven. It sounds very similar to phrases from other parables where our Lord says they will go where there is "weeping and gnashing of teeth."

"If anyone’s work is burned, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire." - 1 Corinthians 3:15

some saints will make it naked into heaven, with no reward, nothing to show for christ. such will be a pitable state of perhaps someone making it in with 1 talent or 2. These might be ones that are on the outer court so to speak. Sneaking into heaven willfully rejecting selling all to Christ on the earth.

D

dohzman Apr 11, 2016

I say this with a smile, with out the pentecostal movement the spread of the gospel around the world would not have happened, that is of course if you believe literal church history. There has been a perversion of its doctrines , but the same perversion exists even in the holiness movement, what is that perversion? Answer: That some how "I" can effect my own standing in the sight of God by living a devoted and separated life from the things (I may believe)of this life/world. Holiness is simply the direct byproduct of spending time talking to Jesus and listening to what He has to instruct back to wants to reply back and than we do.We follow.

D

dohzman Apr 11, 2016

I was gonna string this post with the other but figured I would place it separate, Heaven and Hell. My thoughts are like this, why would God who is love bring a second class citizen to heaven, wouldn't it be just as much a punishment as hell if that person could not enjoy the Lord?

I do hear and understand a great many preachers and take away from them some insights but this outer court doctrine is not one of them, I do believe there will be varying degrees of punishment for those who do not go to heaven but I also believe that some will have different types of rewards in heaven, how will that happen? I have no idea. I do know that Jesus will place on all His children a robe of righteousness in heaven(He will cover or nakedness and wipe away our tears), in heaven there will be no pride or status and while we may have different types of works we are doing we will not gain any fulfillment directly from our work or any accomplishments we may achieve through this work. We will be so full of God and our hearts so caught up in the Love of Christ that He will be our business and love for one another will be without any trace of sin or selfishness, its hard to imagine especially when you consider it from the now of this life. I do have thoughts on things like the outer court but I do not believe it is to awfully important for us today simply because it will not really edify in the sense that we really can not be certain because it would be an understanding of some passages from the Bible that scholars have debated over for centuries, and trust me I am not a scholar :/

E

elected Apr 11, 2016

We don't have to be mystical about what Jesus meant knowing Him, its simply a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus, knowing him to be our Savior from sin and our sanctification. It is God who works in us and thru us and our part is to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. God is the one who regenerates and sanctifies our hearts, he puts his laws into our hearts and writes them on the tablets of our hearts.

His grace saved us and that means it changes our lives to be Christ-like, if there is no new birth, no presence of the Holy Spirit in the most holy of holies in our spirit and if we don't love God and our neighbor our religion is fake and not genuine and we don't really know or love Him.

Those religious people who on the name of Christ did all these supernatural things are like Judas who did similar healings and miracles but ended in hell. There is no heaven unless we know Jesus here as our Lord and Savior. Supernatural gifts don't qualify us for heaven.

sermonindex Apr 11, 2016

I remember Ralph Mahoney as World MAP's founder.

Here is what I found about him.

A Critical Turning Point Ralph came to a point that so many in ministry come to.

It was in this challenging season in 1963 that Ralph Mahoney, feeling like a complete failure, wrote a letter to God.

God sovereignly visited Ralph with a fresh dimension of grace, and "turned his captivity". Ralph began to truly understand the difference between working FOR God and working WITH God. Within a matter of months, the Lord had confirmed His desire for World MAP and launched the ministry into what would be many years of fruitful service.
Ralph readily acknowledges God's providence in all this: "In retrospect, I realized it was the will of the Lord that my own efforts fail, so that I would know that only God could bring to birth and accomplish what He had given me as a vision."

A Fruitful Vine During this season, the Lord gave Ralph a mental picture in which his church in Louisiana appeared as a vine being pruned. Then the vine began to wither and die, and was burned with fire until only a stump remained. The remaining root was transplanted, and burst forth into new life again - but this time the vine reached "over a wall" to the ends of the earth (Gen 49:22

D

dolfan Apr 12, 2016

Redi, I sent you an email. I forgot to say who I was. It was me. :)

A brother in Christ I know lives in Tulsa. He's from Alabama. Wife is a web designer, a WordPress expert of sorts.

E

elected Apr 14, 2016

Hi Tim,

Thanks for your email brother. I just sent you an email from gmail, I couldn't find your email anytime I accessed my gmail from my phone app but was able to find it today after accessing gmail from Google online.