End times desperation

We all know that "end times" discussions are generally the most disharmonious on the forum. There are other disharmonious topics as well, some of which have been rightfully banned by the moderators.

I was wondering why there is such seeming desperation (on all sides of the end time arguments) that their view must be correct? I mean it is almost like if everyone doesn't accept my view as right then the sky will fall.

I used to be a 5 point dispensationalist- I had the charts and everything. The Left Behind books were simply confirmation of what I already knew.

Then I was introduced to some different ways of looking at end times from different sources. I was extremely resistant at first but as I paid more attention I had to at least acknowledge that they MIGHT be right and I might be wrong.

That is still my attitude today, several years down the road. I THINK my current position is solid, but I certainly can't rule out that other positions are not possibly true as well and I may be wrong. This is because-- let's be honest now-- the "end times" scriptures are exceedingly difficult.

My main goal in these end times discussions is to help people realize there are other viable alternatives. But there is extreme resistance (it seems) to accepting this line of reasoning.

So, why is this end times issue so extremely polarizing? Why can't we accept that we may not have it figured out? Isn't it best to know the various views so we will be ready?

Just some random musings. I dont want this to be a discussion of End Times views but rather why it is so polarizing. I'd like everyone's honest opinion.

Polarizing due to Pride. Pure and simple.

Let God be true and every man a liar.

Or, let God know and every man guess.

The how to of Christianity, not so difficult.

The when will, is cryptic!

What I think we can all 100% agree on together is that things are getting worser and worser.

If I don't seem desperate on the topic, it is because I haven't tried. :)

Truly, I AM desperate on it. I WANT Jesus to come back, split Mt. Olive, take a throne in Jerusalem, resurrect the dead and judge every one. I want it. I long for Him to come as He left, glorified, in the flesh and fulfilling His every single word.

What I desperately want to know is what and when He will do it. Either we are not supposed to know or we are supposed to understand those mysterious and cryptic things He said for us to know. Frankly, I don't think anybody is right. I fully believe that everyone may be so wrong that it would throw us almost off the faith if we knew the truth, but for God's grace and mercy.

I brought up this very question at our home fellowship meeting Saturday night. Paul, Peter and James said the coming of the Lord was "at hand". Ok. Spin the roulette wheel and pick any one of dozens of views on what that means. Whatever it meant when written, it either didn't mean "at hand" as in "really soon", or it wasn't inspired of God, or we are so distant in time, space and circumstance that we will never ever know. An older loved and respected brother patiently and lovingly asserted the same, tired and unproved conclusory points that I have heard for years, but the unspoken upshot of what he said (and I didn't challenge him, mind you) was that the apostles under the inspiration of the Spirit did not mean what they said when they said "at hand" because all these other "triggering" events (i.e., Israel becoming a nation in a day") had to occur first. He said we are just now arriving at a point where these things can even be possible. I love him, but the apostles did NOT get that memo from the Holy Ghost.

IDK what to believe about it. I am about to the point of deciding not to care. It is impossible to know. I have actively asked God to give me the heart He gave to all the saints who lived over the past 2,000 years and who never troubled over the question. Most didn't.

That's why the discussions became so polarizing. A few chose to be more than a little rude and unnecessarily barbed and it set hearts against hearts. If folks really want to it's not that hard to carry on a civil discussion in my opinion. Some of those called on their tone go right back at if by the next day usually as if nothing was said. A few poisoned the many in my opinion. What is ahead for the church - "that day shall not overtake you like a thief" - can be a great unifying theme for the church as the writings of the prophets are examined anew.

4 But you, O Daniel, shut up the words and seal the Book until the time of the end. [Then] many shall run to and fro and search anxiously [through the Book], and knowledge [of God purposes are revealed by His prophets] shall be increased and become great. (Daniel 12;4 - AMP)

A sign of revival at the end of the age will be a renewed interest and examination of God's purposes as revealed in the writings of the prophets.

Double post.

Quote: "IDK what to believe about it. I am about to the point of deciding not to care."

I reached this point about 2 years ago. I care in the sense that it interests me but I don't really care who is right.

A bible teacher I really respect said that when he was filled with the HS during the Jesus Movement in CA, they were truly and sincerely of the belief that Jesus was coming back at any second. I mean people were selling their stuff and everything. They really thought it was happening. When it didn't, he got disillusioned about end times stuff and lost interest. Later when he really studied the word closely his views changed. But even though he can clearly make a great defense of his view he has no great interest in the topic.

I think regardless of what view we hold we can all agree on this: we are to be sold out disciples and ready and waiting. That is something we can surely be united in.

I got lost, I am posting from a mobile device.

Repost (from memory):

I think in a way, it is an extension of the doctrine wars between the Arminian camp and Calvinist camp (to spare, John Gill, John McArthur, etc).

If we are not careful, the devil wins, whether we discuss it or or not discuss it.

Wise words brother Frank and docs.

I think I am going thru a dry spell in many ways, but that is ok. We do that. He is still with us un them. They have real transforming effect. But, no small part of it is a frustration with the things of the end and revival. I am -- emotionally at least -- close to getting very quiet toward the whole world about the things of God, getting very private about Him and with Him and a select few others, and living quietly and peaceably as I possibly can get along with doing. Not in protest of Him, but because I quite literally am at my own end and the best I will ever be for anyone is to pray for them in my own closet.

Discussions are always polarizing. Who says truth is democratic? Humanists.

The way these discussions are handled here goes something like this:

"Your endtimes are not mine endtimes, I have my own endtimes teacher that knows more than yours"

Ok, but doesn't scripture give us directions and understanding?

"You cannot just read what it says, it's just symbolic"

So you prefer your explanation over the words of God?

"No, I just put them into the light the way they should be understood"

Ah, i see, and the proof that that would be correct is....?

"Author A, author B, and many many others"

But it has been proven wrong and be declared heresy by the early church councils (Preterism)?

"Well, yes, but it is still true and I believe it to be so"

Thank you, so we have to agree to disagree?

"Well, how to fix this, how about: "In essentials unity; in non-essentials liberty; in all things charity.”

Great solution, let the truth be out there somewhere, why bother with it at all, let's just talk about something else then. Or even better: Never mention that subject again, because it cannot be understood.

===

When a humanistic approach takes the lead, these things have to go out the window:

Reproving compromising preachers is a fundamental doctrine (Galatians 2:11-15).

Church discipline is a fundamental doctrine (1 Corinthians 5).

Separation from compromising brethren is a fundamental doctrine (e.g., 2 Tess. 3:6).

In Essentials Unity: What the Bible has to say about this important topic:
http://www.wayoflife.org/free_ebooks/in_essentials_unity.php

Todd said: "Just some random musings. I dont want this to be a discussion of End Times views but rather why it is so polarizing. I'd like everyone's honest opinion."

First, I have to say it. I don't think I can't NOT say it because I'm like a pot boiling over: I love eschatology! I've been studying it ravenously for 31 years! The sheer amount of joy, hope, peace and especially comfort, that it offers is worth infinitely more than all the riches of the world combined! And, in today's world, at this point in biblical history, doors are being blasted open with opportunities to share the gospel! "Wait, did I hear someone mention Jesus? I've got the coffee ready! Cancel all of my appointments, Helen. Let's talk!"

Sadly, yes, it can be polarizing. (Such a fancy word for divisive.) The internet increases this exponentially because of the anonymity and not having to face those we're speaking to.

The short answer has already been given: Pride and the idolatry of self. Some people just have to be right. But, how often have we seen anyone "win" an online argument or debate. And even in some of those rare few times, at what cost did it come?

I love discussing the end times. But I refuse to debate it online. It's fruitless, especially if we were to honestly expose motives. And it has the potential to hurt, confuse and put off those who may be lurking but searching, reading the online debate as part of their own research. I speak from much experience there.

I've often wondered why God didn't make His end time plan more clear. Maybe to test the love of the brethren? To test our obedience? Motives? Purity? The level of our complete surrender? Or maybe it's simply to confound Satan and his followers to keep them in the dark? The reason(s) could be anything and everything.

But, I think it's more important for us to be careful in how we conduct ourselves, constantly examining our pride, self-control, anger, love, motives, etc., We should also be aware of WHY and HOW we believe what we do, especially since the scriptures aren't 100% clear on it. Have we fasted and prayed while conducting our own studies? Or do we simply believe what "sounds right" or "makes sense" to us? Are we simply parroting what our favorite Bible teacher says? Have we ever laid aside everything we think we know about it and set ourselves apart to seek God on the matter? Are we even willing to be wrong? What's our purpose in the discussion? To be right? To lambast our opponent or the unbeliever?

It's my belief that "being right" on the matter of end times doctrine is much less important than the questions I just asked and more! It's going to happen the way it's going to happen whether we're right or wrong anyway. So, what's more important than remaining humble, loving, and being a peacekeeper, esteeming others better than ourselves?

The subject is polarizing because of sin and pride. Also for the lack of obedience and the fruits of the spirit, especially self-control.

Oh, and "I don't know" is a completely acceptable answer. In fact, it's often more honest and keeps us humble.

I would just as well have a discussion on when the sun might burn out, or the stars might fall from the sky, why not? We know about as much when these might happen, as we know about when the end will come. If you really want to know something that man will never know, why waste your time asking or debating man, why not ask the Holy Spirit within, I'm guessing if you don't get an answer from the Holy Spirit, you don't need to worry about it.