Of Books and the Word

sermonindex Apr 13, 2016

Ecclesiastes 12:12

But beyond this my son, be warned:the writing of many books is endless and excessive devotion to books is wearing to the body.

John 6:63

It is the spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and our life.

John 6:68

Lord to whom shall we go, You have words of eternal life.

I remember reading a comment from one of our dear sisters in the forum. It was one of those comments that has resonated in my soul. She said when she began her walk with Christ the Holy Spirit told her to stay in the Word alone. For by doing so she would not be confused by the opinions of men. I do not know if this was the exact quote from our dear sister. But this was how the Holy Spirit ministered to my heart. I appreciate this so much from our sister on Jesus.

I long to be as this dear sister. My desire would be to sit at the feet of Jesus as Mary in listening to His word. For such people who walk in the presence of Christ. Such people who have immersed themselves in His word. Such people have a piece and a confidence that only Jesus can give. There is no confusion in their heart and mind as to what the truth of Jesus is. Because they know Him who is truth. Such orecious souls have no desire to argue. I am so rebuked by their gentle presence.

I think of the simplicity of the persecuted. They do not carry around excessive theological libraries. They do not have smartphones that will give them access to a database of theology. But in their hearts they carry Jesus. They count themselves blessed if they can have access to a portion of scripture. Or to a New Testament. I think of those in Eritrea that are sustained only by scraps of paper with scripture written on them. These scraps become more precious than even gold or bread itself. For these contain the words of life.

Richard wurmbrand, who came out of a background of persecution, made the following observation or I should say insight. He said Jesus is the word. The Bible is the word about the word. Commentaries are the word about the word about the word. Sermons on the word about the word about the word about the word. When we start reading or listening do the opinions of men. Somehow we are far removed from the source of the Word himself.

I think of our dear sister and who in the simplicity of her heart stays in the scriptures. She stays in the presence of Jesus. Her posts reflect this. Indeed they are a breath of fresh air in the forum.

I think if we would get back to the abiding in the Wprd. If we would immerse ourselves in Him who is the Word. If we would revel in his words that are spirit and life. I believe a lot of contention in the forum would be avoided.

Must we look to our favorite commentators or authors to prove a point of scripture. Do we not have the Resident Author of scripture Himself abiding within us? Why do we not look to the Holy Spirit to interpret for us the Word that He wrote?

I close my post with the words of John Bunyon. For they are quite thought-provoking. They come from a man that Spurgeon described as one who would bleed scripture if he were cut.

....... Read and read again, and do not despair of help to understand the will and mind of God though you think they are locked up from you. Neither trouble your heads though you have not commentaries or expositions. Pray and read, read and pray, for a little from God is better than a great deal from mem.......

Posted by Blaine Scogin

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Elibeth May 1, 2016

Bro.Blaine,

I saw this post some time ago,but did not know just how to comment.

This sounds like,maybe ,..me you are talking about,...?,.as to some of the things I have said here,.but could easily be someone else,...This surly is a part of The testimony of Jesus' work in my life,..and I thank Him.

Anyway,your words were very kind,..

God bless,

-----------------
elizabeth

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AlmostHome May 1, 2016

Well, I'm new so I don't know who spoke these words of wisdom, but I agree with them. I definitely believe that there's value in the writings of other book and I'm not against reading some with prayer and discernment. But, to do so regularly can be a trap and a hindrance if the reader is not firmly grounded in the scriptures and puts them first above other readings.

This is why I'm personally not a fan of Bible commentaries. I know many who have fallen into the laziness trap of getting all of their scriptural understanding and beliefs from the commentator, instead of seeking God Himself.

God is not a respecter of persons. What He taught to the saints of old, He is able to teach to me. The question is, am I like the saints of old in my determination of seeking God to teach me?

EDITED TO ADD: In that light, I did just receive a book that I've been longing to read for some time: Studies in the Sermon on the Mount by Martyn Lloyd-Jones! They say the only better than reading this book was hearing him preach it!

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Elibeth May 1, 2016

Keith,
I appreciate your comment.

At the very near start of my relationship with The Lord,He told me not to get any books or materials to learn of Him,and His Ways.Just get my Bible,which was the King James Verizon,and He would teach me.So that is
what I did for many,many yrs.Nether would I look into the commentary in my Bible.

I was truly looking at how my life looked through His eyes,and what He wanted to do about it.

I did not even know the Scripture was in the Bible,.. For many,many yrs. :

1Jn.2:27, .... " the anointing which ye have received of Him abideth in you,
and ye need not that any man teach you;but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things,and is Truth,and is no lie,even as it hath taught
you,ye shall abide in Him."

There is SO much more we can " Learn" of Him,I am glad to say.
But isn't that what the word ' Desiple' means,..a learner ?

Also,He said, 'Put My yoke upon you,and learn of Me.'

And,In Jn.14:26,.." But the Comforter,who is The Holy Spirit,whom The Father will send in My Name,He shall teach you all things,and bring all things to your remembrance,whatever I have said unto you."

When we are born again,and we begin to devoured His Word,...He gives us a new Name,and His Name is The Word of God,that flows up out of our intermost being,(The Holy Spirit) ( The anointing) (The oil in our lamp )

Then we are careful to pass things that we may be taught,through the
Screening / confirming of it ,by His Word,...and then we may have to just set it aside for the time,as we may not know that yet.

Blessings,as we learn of Him,

-------------------

elizabeth

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AlmostHome May 1, 2016

That's very inspiring, Elizabeth. I've always been of the belief that God never changes and can do anything He chooses. When I was unemployed for 8 1/2 months and never left my apartment (explained in my post in Prayer Requests), I never worried about food. I knew if God chose to that He could cause manna to rain down from my ceiling to feed me.

In the same light, His Word is enough to not only sustain us, but to cause us to thrive! I didn't receive the same direction as you did to not read other books, but I do limit myself pretty strictly with them.

I just have to point out - the 21st Century came out of you in your post! I didn't know God had a "King James Verizon" Bible! (That typo made me giggle!)

God bless you sister!

sermonindex May 2, 2016

I always think of John Bunyan. He never had a theological Library. All he had was his Bible. You may have had Martin Luther's introduction to Galatians. But basically he had his Bible and Holy Spirit. Yes Spurgeon said if Bunyon that if you cut him he would not believe blood but bleed scripture. And the books that he wrote certainly testified of his knowledge of the Holy Bible.

I think of my brothers and sisters in persecuted nations. They consider themselves so blessed if they get a Bible. A new testament. Or simply a scripture portion. For they realize it is the word alone that suatains them.

Believers in the nation of Eritrea whk aee imprisoned do not have access to a Bible. They are sustained by scripture portions that are passed around secretly on slips of paper. Those pieces of paper become more precious than even food itself. They will take those scripts of paper read them, memorize the verses, and then pass them along. Any saint caught with those pieces of paper will be beaten severely. Yet they risk such to get the word into their heart.

Believers in North Korea will real risk death on a copy of the scriptures. Or they see in the Bible the words of life. Hardly what one will find it a theological textbook.

Bro Blaine

sermonindex May 2, 2016

Dear sister found much encouragement in your post.

B

brothagary May 2, 2016

To be fair ther are still many churches in South America and other places who are persecuted tho they still have theoligical books and comentarys ,and are no lees a saint then the ones blain mentioned ,,,,

And to be fair it is extreamly inconsistent to say we shouldn't read other comentarys, and books by the men of old and in the very same breath quote there words like a proof text ,,,,Blaine ,that is a circular argument if I ever herd one ,,,,,,,,

Look thefacts are the bible says he has given us apostals ,prophets ,,pasters and teachers ,and such ,,these elders and teachers have written teachings about the bible ,,and also the holy spiiit uses teachers to iluininate the word ,,,,,,,,..

I know Paul washer who is respected here once said ,that he doesn't think he ever had an oridgnal thought,,,,that God used teachers and comentarys to teach him ......

Let's not get all ridged and mechanical pharassaical ,and expect God to teach us only in one way ,or the way we think it should be ,,,,,God don't live in know box does he .....

B

brothagary May 2, 2016

I honestly think much of our problem lies with believing because we have the Holy Spirit ,we don't need a teacher ,so we set our selves up as the pope with the final interpretation and won't listen to other view points properly, ,,,this view that we know better and don't really need teachers ,has its root set in the soil of pride ,,,,we are so very fallable in our understanding ,and should always listen to what teachers say and write from all the different theoligal camps ,,we be come more tolerant of brothers with different views ,, instead of sitting with the pope in the Vatican declaring our version of our inflalable interpretation ,of the word of God .....

sermonindex May 2, 2016

Brother, respectfully, that is the problem. Look at the plethora of end time threads that have dominated this forum in the last few months. Each of them filled with people from differing theological suasions quoting their favorite Bible teacher or church father to establish their understanding of end time events.

But really. It could be any matter of theology. Look at the past threads that have dealt with the head covering, translations of the Bible, Cal/arm discussions, nature of the Trinity, etc. All of them polarizing with people in different camps and bringing disunity in the forum.

Gary you mentioned the Pope. It was people like William Tyndale who died to give us the English Bible. He died so that the milkmaid and the ploughboy could have a translation of scripture to challenge the teachings of the Roman Church. Because he believed the Bible should be in the hands of the people. And trusted the Holy Spirit to interpret that word to their heart.

But are we as Evangelical Protestants any different from the Catholics? The cry of solely by scripture in the Reformation has been forgotten. We have made men, men who have graduated from Protestant Evangelical seminaries, the custodian of scriptures. I will not mention their names but we know who they are.

I ask when in His Infinite Wisdom did God ever intend for his word to be in the hands of the theologian, the seminarian, the preacher, or other professional cletrgy to be expounded to the saint

Brother,respectfully, we don't need commentaries or men to interpret God's word to our hearts. At best we need a New Testament and the Holy Spirit of God to open up the New Testament to our hearts.

Yes I did quote from John Bunyan in my original OP. But only to show that he was one who lacked a formal theological education. But one who knew the scriptures that were incarnated into His heart. And he could preach the scriptures. He could preach Christ crucified and exhort people to come to Him. John Owen. One of the theological greats of his time, said that he would have traded his theological education to have the preaching ability of Bunyon.

Brother I will simply close off with 1 John 2:27,

As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you, but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, abide in Him.

Dear brother to abide in Christ is to live in Him. And He live in us. We don't need a professional clergyman or theologian or commentator to teach is to live in Christ. For that is what the Holy Dpirit is capable of doing through the pages of his word. Jesus is more than capable of showing us how to live and follow Him through the pages of His word.

Simply my thoughts, dear brother, respectfully posted.

Bro Blaine

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Citizenabove May 2, 2016

Since shortly after my rebirth, I have had this on my heart; I looked around and I saw bible studies, where there was no bible used, rather a published guide, and I saw a greater dependence on books about scripture rather than Scripture itself. I have had the conviction since my conversion, to not become dependent on other tools to 'enhance my understanding/experience with the living Word of God,' to an extent. Not that I do not read or listen to sound teaching, but I feel like this was spoken very truly - that ultimately what is needed in the relationship between us and our Lord Jesus, is His Holy Spirit within us and His Holy Book before us. I am not sure how to totally express what my heart feels on this, but it does sadden me to see and hear so many who know very much, but have not received it from the Father Himself in prayer and search. And I am not saying that other books and such are not a help or of benefit, but I think we ought to take note of a dependence on anything but the Bread of Life and watch that it doesn't become a hindrance or danger to us in our walk with Christ. "Knowledge without faith puffs up the mind", and I feel that when one goes to the Scriptures, knowledge is ultimately intertwined with faith, we are then directly fed from God, and there is not chance of dulling, and the message is not diluted or weakened. IMO, the more dependence we have on other things, the less the Holy Spirit can do, because then God has to work within our borders. But if we simply come to God, knowing Him, but not knowing what He might do or reveal, with a humble and open heart, God can move mightily and freely in us, since so often man's innovations and intentions are an obstruction to God. And I say again, I am not saying this of all books and teaching, I sincerely hope that is clear. These are good things, but ultimately we ought to "be careful that we are simple." Our dependence is on Christ, the Bread of Life, and that we would not dilute or steal our own blessing in this way, that there would be no hindrance (2 Thess. 3:1). Thank you brethren. With love and respect, brother Pancho

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Citizenabove May 2, 2016

"Brother,respectfully, we don't need commentaries or men to interpret God's word to our hearts. At best we need a New Testament and the Holy Spirit of God to open up the New Testament to our hearts."

I had meant to include this QUOTE on my comment, but it didn't work as I had thought it would. ?

Respectfully,

sermonindex May 2, 2016

My brother is very insightful post. I say Amen.

Bro Blaine

sermonindex May 2, 2016

Earlier today I heard an interview with a pastor from the Middle East. The pastor was from a restricted nation and consequently he had his picture blocked out and his voice electronically altered. To have not taken these precautions would have marched him for execution by the Jihadidts. Yet this pastor already considers his life as lost for the Lord Jesus Christ.

This brother gave many encouraging stories of how God is working in the Middle East. I might add this brother is from the West. Yet he heard the call of God to go to the Middle East and minister to the Muslims in restricted nations.

This pastor observed that we Christians in the west or spoon fed the word of God. We have CDs. We have iPod messages. We have commentaries. We have expositions. We have Bible teachers. We even have Bibles. But we do not struggle in our relationship with Christ ascertain truth from his word.

In contrast those in the Middle East who come to Christ come to grips with the truth of Jesus through His word. These Christians have the Holy Spirit. And they have the New Testament. And they struggle to come to grips with his truth through the pages of His word. They depend on the Holy Spirit to show them truth from His word. And to live out the truth of Jesus Christ in their lives.

For an example. The persecuted believers want to know about prayer. This brother will give them verses on prayer. Then he will tell them go to Jesus and see what He is telling you through these verses. How is he telling you to pray. Or if the persecuted believers want to learn about worship. This pastor will give them the psalms. And then it will say go to Jesus and learn how to worship. In this process the persecuted will learn how to pray powerful prayers. Or they wilkl learn deep intimate worship as they struggle out that relationship with Jesus.

I feel that we in the west have missed something by running to our favorite Bible commentaries are Bible teachers to hear from God. Rather than taking our New Testaments and getting before the Lord and letting Him speak to us through the pages of his word.

I think of that quotation by Bunyon when he said pray and read and read and pray, for a little from God is better than a whole lot from men.

Simply my thiughts.

B

brothagary May 3, 2016

Blain the problem is the very opacity ,and reason why we have a multitude of different interpretations , because Christians do exactly what you did they take the scripture out of context,and cherry pick a verse like verse John 2"27 and make it superior to or even completely denie or twist other verses like this one ,,,,,

11And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, 12for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;…

As I said then set ourselves up as ,a pope ,, with all the authority on earth to have the final say about doctrine ....

Now John Bunyan was a scooled Calvinist ,and a baptist , so he had theoligal training ,,he may not have had many or any theoligical books in library, it doesn't really matter ,he was still lerent tradition teachings or the reformed baptist doctrine ,,,,and also has sermons on this site comentarys so to speak ,,,if there is no need for comentarys ,then may as well ask Greg nicely to shut this sight down this sight ,,,,,

And also blain if there is no need for comentarys ,should you not refrain in giving your opinions comentarys on what the bible teaches,,,

If you want to be consistent you must therefore keep your interpretations to your self . Which you never do !!

You see it's one big circular straw man argument ....

With respect ,,brother Gary

sermonindex May 3, 2016

Brother let me ask first of all how have I taken 1 John 2:27 out of context. The verse states,

....... As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you, but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in him.......

What is the anointing that is talked about above. And looking at the cross references in my Bible John 14:26 is given. The verse states,

....... But the helper, the Holy Spirit whom the Father will send in my name, He will teach you about all things and will bring to your remembrance all that I said to you.......

I believe the anointing John refers to in his epistle on 1 John 2:27 is the Holy Spirit that Jesus was speaking of in John 14:26. A cross reference to John 14:26 is John 16:13-14. Again the verse states

....... But when He, the Spirit of Truth comes, He will guide you into all the truth, for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak, and He will disclose to you what is to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of mine and will disclose it to you.

Brother the three verses above teach that the Holy Spirit can teach the believer out of the New Testament. The Holy Spirit can reveal truth out of the word He has written to the humble heart who desires it. This can be done without the aid of a man, a theologian, a commentator, and so on.

Gary consider the New Covenant. The writer of Hebrews quotes the verses out of Joel in chapter 8. Hebrews 8:10-11 states,

For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
After those days, says the Lord:
I will put my laws into their minds,
And I will write them on their hearts.
And I will be their God,
And they shall be my people.
And they shall not teach everyone his fellow citizen,
And everyone his brother, saying, "Know the Lord"
For all will know me,
From the least to the greatest of them.

Bottom line bro. Under the New Covenant we don't need men to teach us the word. For the Holy Spirit can very well take just a word. As a matter of fact He will write the word on our hearts and ninds.

Ephesians 4:11-12 are spiritual gifts or offices that are given to the church for the building up of the body. The apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are not meant to spoon-feed the body of Christ. But more to encourage the body of Christ to work of service. They are not meant how to stand in place of the Holy Spirit and write truth on her heart.

I could go on bro. But right now these are my thoughts.

Brother Blaine

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brothagary May 3, 2016

Brother the reason why I say that is because you are denying the other teachings of Paul that says he has given us pasters and teachers ,rather you say that they are not given to teach but rather to Incourage ,,now the bible does not say say that teachers and pasters are given to just Incourage,,,,,, now to say that pasters and teacher are getting in the road of the Holy Spirit if they teach ,is also not taught in scripture ,that's your opinion or can I say that's your comentary on the above verses ,which in actual fact we don't need according to you ,, so why continue to give your comentary, teaching here about the above verses ,,,,that's a great contradiction to the point you are making ..

I hope you can see the point I'm making .....

B

brothagary May 3, 2016

With respect may i say one more thing about the context of 1john 2"27..

To get contextual flow of that verse we must look to the early verses ,so that we don't take it out of that flow of context.......

18Children, it's the end of time. You've heard that an antichrist is coming. Certainly, many antichrists are already here. That's how we know it's the end of time. 19They left us. However, they were never really part of us. If they had been, they would have stayed with us. But by leaving they made it clear that none of them were part of us. 20The Holy One has anointed you, so all of you have knowledge. 21I'm writing to you because you know the truth, not because you don't know the truth. You know that no lie ever comes from the truth. 22Who is a liar? Who else but the person who rejects Jesus as the Messiah? The person who rejects the Father and the Son is an antichrist. 23Everyone who rejects the Son doesn't have the Father either. The person who acknowledges the Son also has the Father. 24Make sure that the message you heard from the beginning lives in you. If that message lives in you, you will also live in the Son and in the Father.

25Christ has given us the promise of eternal life.

26I'm writing to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27The anointing you received from Christ lives in you. You don't need anyone to teach you something else. Instead, Christ's anointing teaches you about everything. His anointing is true and contains no lie. So live in Christ as he taught you to do.

B

brothagary May 3, 2016

Looking at verses 18 through to 21". We see that johns main emphasis is on false teachers who were in the fellowship teaching false doctrine ,and had resenltly left, and what they were teaching was false ,John appeal is that they already have been given the truth ,through him as an apostal, this being the reason ,he could declare that they had knowlage of this truth ,and that they knew with that truth was ,hence why he said In verse 24 ,make sure what you herd from the beginning remains in you ,..

So when we move to verse 26 we keep all this in mind

As he then says what he is writing is all about the deception of these false teaches ,he then again appeals, to them ,using the Holy Spirit as the reason ,that they should number one ,not be deceived by there poison ,and number 2 ,that they do not need any of these false teachers teach them any thing ,, because they already know that truth Verse 24 states they here'd that truth from the beginning .

A main point that John also was making was that theses false teachers and propherts were not speaking by the Holy Spirits anointing

As mentioned also to test the spirits .....

So brother my point is you can't just pluck two verses outof a chapter and get the flow of the context ,most of the time ...

Blessings