The question.......
Is Jesus Christ the central focus in both the Old and the New Testament? Is He the point by which all scripture is to be interpreted? Does all of redemptive history center on Jesus Christ, that would be His person and work?
Respectfully posted for discussion. Hopefully with no theology.
I enjoyed what Neil posted in a different thread.....Yes.
Thats a good answer, anything beyond that is theology:)
Websters: Simple Definition of theology
: the study of religious faith, practice, and experience : the study of God and God's relation to the world
: a system of religious beliefs or ideas
Portion of Scripture?
"At that time the disciples came to Jesus, saying, "Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” And calling to him a child, he put him in the midst of them and said, "Truly, I say to you, unless you turn and become like children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. Whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven."
Matthew 18:1-4 (ESV)
quite frankly?.....in the recent months, visiting and reading the endless "-ism's and "ist", threads have left me most disheartened and broken hearted for a whole plethora of reasons I don't even want to elucidate.
God love you, neil
Would it be possible for us to talk a bit? I sure want to say a few things to you by way of peace and a bit of recociliation. My email is on my profile if you want to contact me. If you're not inclined I am okay with that but I sure would like to talk even if briefly.
Now back to Blaine's excellent question.
David are you talking to me or Neil.
Oh I see you're talking to Neil. I didn't think you and I had any disagreements. At least I hope we didn't bro.
/I didn't think you and I had any disagreements. At least I hope we didn't bro./
Nary a one! I appreciate your tone and attitude and the Christian works you are involved in.
Thanks and blessings.
I would guess that Jesus Christ is the central focus of most theoological systems and the central focus of the Bible. That may be a controversial statement I realize because all systems can't be correct. Yet, historic premill, dispensational premill, amillennialism and post-millennialism all base their present and future hopes on Christ and His atoning work as they have come to understand iot from the Bible. And this atoning Christ was clearly pre-existent (His goings forth have been from of old) so He was clearly central in the OT although the prophets were a bit restless as they sought to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them ("within them" - Christ indwelling in the Old Testament?) was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow (I Peter 1:11). It was Christ Himself predicting the sufferings of Christ to come. Ha! He's kind of on top of His game isn't He!!!
Or maybe we might say the central focus is God the Father and His plans of redemption for mankind based on the atoning work of His Son whom He sent into the world in the fullness of time. I've heard it said that the Father's covenant is with His Son and not us but by grace we are allowed to particiapte in that covenant. So maybe the Father's eternal purpose realized in Christ is the central focus of the Bible. None of the major theological systems argue much over the supremacy of Christ and the absolute necessity of the new birth coming from the work of Calvary. Yet Christ is the radiance of the Father's glory and the exact representation of the Father's nature (Hebrews 1:3). "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father," Christ said. So maybe the Father is the central focus of the Bible bringing about His plans of redemption and eternal glory through Christ who now indwells us through His Spirit. After all, when all is said and done,
"And when all things are subjected to Him (Christ), then the Son Himself also will be subjected to the One (the Father) who subjected all things to Him (Christ), that God (the Father) may be all in all. (I Cor 15:28).
"However, when everything is subjected to Him, then the Son Himself will also subject Himself to [the Father] Who put all things under Him so that God may be all in all [be everything to everyone, supreme, the indwelling and controlling factor of life]." (I Cor 15:28 - AMP Bible)
Sunday morning musings here.
Very good musings for s Sunday morning bro Your post was very thought-provoking. For sure God, the Father, is working out His olan of pedemption through God, His Son. And it would seem to me that His plan of redemption is being applied through God, the Holy Spirit.
Maybe it can be said that the Triune God is the center of scripture. Uh oh! I am starting to think. That is dangerous for me. :-)
So is it the theologians and their systems of theologies that make things complicated? Makes me long for that simple song of Fernando Ortega, Give Me Jesus. :-)
Sunday morning musings from a fellow brother.
Thank you for your post David.
Brother Blaine
That simplicity and yearning I see in Bro. Neil is what I so enjoy and yet he can be pretty deep, as I see many on here can be but honestly I really love simplicity, not intellectual stupidity but simplicity, I see a difference here. What amaze s me about The God Head is that by His very nature He yearns for us to become like Him so that "we" can enjoy the fullest possible fellowship with Him and each other in the bonds of holiness and the highest degree of unselfish love possible in this life and perfected in the life to come. That is what blows my mind.
2 Cor.11:3
But I am afraid that, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds will be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ.
I believe the above verse expresses the heart of your post brother.
my dear brother....loved, I have just been laying back for about a half and hour now, just pondering everything, what you wrote in response to my simple flawed walk with God, thinking I deserve no esteem, as the kind you wrote, with love, thinking about the situation we have in world, the situation we have in this Faith, the situation we have in our souls, the situation we bear in these cracked clay vessels, or you could say "blades of grass" we inhabit for a season, the situation on this portion of cyberspace, the internet, this forum....all of it Dee.
and what came of this half and hour?....I don't know, and yet in certain aspects I do know, and the only Reason I MIGHT know is because God tells me, and I know the Sound of His Voice....and for that, I am so grateful to Him, I know that God loves me, whether it be God/Yahweh the Father, or Messiah Jesus the Son...I know that, I have ever since I was 7, and first crossed the threshold of our synagogue, the second I crossed, God has always been SO REAL to me, He protects me, loves me, has given me gifts of skill or knowledge....how can I ever REALLY "thank Him" enough?
How can I ever really thank Him enough for impelling YOU, via the indwelling Holy Spirit to testify about ME?!?....as if I am "anything", but another blade of grass?....and that is no false humility, its just knowing where I stand , love people, love them in their exquisite brokenness and flawed natures......as best as we can with our OWN brokenness.
In the past 6 months , a fell and dark spirit has come over this forum, I speak the truth in Christ. It manifests itself in all the "-ism's and -ist's", "doctrines", "theologies"....in putting up MAN MADE "fencelines" between "old and new Testaments", appropriating....no...nay, outright thievery of God's blessings and curses, attaching curses to the Vine, and stealing blessings to Ingrafted Vines, of parsing Portions of Scripture to make MAN....."right in their OPINIONS"....
its all so terrible and wrong, I cant even continue typing.
in 2002, God led me here, because by HIM, I knew the Theo-concept of "Revival" was good and pure, put it into "google" and was gifted with two websites, "Fireonthealtar dot com", and Sermonindex, and by His love, he led me to the only three human vessels I listen to (preachers, revivalists, exhorter's) and they are Len Ravenhill, Duncan Campbell, and Michael Brown....and I've listened to SO many of their testimonies and exhortations.....thrilled and filled me, and thru fireon thealtar, God gave me a heaven sent ministry for 3 years, 2002-04, which was cutting compilations with Jesus....and we took a small testimony of Duncan Campbells, about a 16(!) year old boy who was caught up in high places with God, and thru his tears, he raised a hand to Heaven and stated a VERY SIMPLE Reality....even today , 13 years later, I listen to it "Young Donald McPhail Prays"....and I am both crying with joy, and crying in sorrow....joy?...because I know this can happen again, and sorrow, because I know, if we keep heading in the current course, billions of people will die.....
My ONLY burden is REVIVAL, which is God's Glory...for you brother Dee....its just a tiny taste that God is Loving and Good..
https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=5675
God love you, neil
I have been privileged in my life time to walk with many great saints up close and personal, like a dear brother who is in his late 70s, every where we go he stops people, just in the course of his normal day and asks them if they know Jesus and usually concludes with asking them if he can pray for them, right there, no matter the setting.
I am good friends with a Pastor from Africa who comes to America every 2-3 years to minister here, one day after he had spent 3 days and nights in a host churches sanctuary he asked to be dropped off in the middle of Canton downtown, three days later I learned of the rest of the testimony, while he was on that corner waiting on the Lord a Messianic Jewish Pastor from a church 35 miles away came walking by that very corner in that very hour and the two of them began to fellowship. That Saturday Peter was the guest speaker at that fellowship which has since been there to Africa and helped him in ministering to so many and planting churches(I think 80 or so by now, plus schools and at least 1 orphanage that I know of)
Than there was my first real Pastor, he was a student during the Revival that happened in Kentucky on the college campus there way back when.
My neighbor was a Pastor who traveled with Kathryn Kuhlman and her ministry ,he was used by The Lord to do many divine miracles and right before he went to be with the Lord he witnessed Jesus open the eyes of a blind man who was completely blind from his youth.
You see my dear Brother Neil I have had the awesome privilege to be in the company of the humble servants of the Lord, these brothers and sister did the works of Jesus in life and I have been an eye witness to so many things. I have learned to recognize those who have the thumbprint of God on their souls, just like you my dear brother, your best days are ahead of you. And I trust that The Lord Himself will give you a token for good to that very fact.
I know that I write very little on the forums, it really is not because I do not want to but it is so hard to show a smile in the written words, or to convey the proper emotion without being misunderstood, so mostly I just pray for those who ask for it and if I can answer with just a few sentences and hopefully offer some comfort, I do. On a personal note I have appreciated Bro. Greg and you and so many of the brothers and sisters on this site for so many years, that time would elude me. God Bless Bro. DMiller
(just spent another half an hour on my back, pondering)
I almost started weeping at your post, but didn't...you weep when you weep....I can say in a healthy sense I was undone by your testimony and forthtelling.
there is so much MORE, I wish to share with you, I could write it HERE, BUT God says, 'private'...may your dreams be so anointed and full of loveliness tonight, God love you older brother, neil xo.
Hebrews 12:1-2New International Version (NIV)
12 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles. And let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us, 2 fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.
If the Lord Jesus is the focus of our beliefs and devotion, then we must embrace Him for all that He is.
He is the God and protector of Israel, He is the God of the covenants, He is the God and giver of the commandments, He is the God of the prophesies and to these we should bow with utmost fear and reverence before Him.
Who are we sinners to despise or talk in a bashing manner any of what He loves, any of His covenants and commandments, as if they came from the devil himself.
We are just so fortunate now that we are in a different era, but let us not become too presumptuous with subtlelities and gobbledygook of theology.
I understand if people don't want to believe in restorationism. I think it's incorrect, but those whose heart it is to uphold scripture, as they see it, I can respect that. I personally believe that More study & seeking the Lord will clear some of that up (studying the prophets & NT prophecy, not the thoughts of men).
But, it must at least be noted that Jesus is returning & will place his feel on "The Mount of Olives" in Jerusalem. Not in Instanbul. Not in New York, Not in Moscow, or London, or Sydney, or Cairo, but Jerusalem. That in itself, although not a carte Blanche that necessarily alone means "everything", but I think it should be acknowledged at minimum it means "something". Otherwise, one would have to continue to self-create & support an interpretive paradigm where that too (like everything else) must be "allegorized" into meaning something, or anything, where it eventually means/intends nothing.
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