Pnutty
May 8, 2016
Dear sister Linda, I do not know how to say this gently but I will try. Many of us have left facebook because of the plethora of links to "dodgy" teachers. I do not mean to run Johnathon Cahn into the ground and that is not my intention. But this is a brother who has no links, articles or sermons on this website for a reason. And by "dodgy" I am using an Aussie term which essentially means, that you don't know what it is and can't really put your finger on it, but you are as yet still very unsure about an individual. In the case of Mr Cahn, he has made fortune and fame from fictitious stories that play into peoples fears and by perpetrating fables about end times matters. To the point where people take what he says almost as "gospel". This gives many of us here great pause about this so called teacher.
I am sorry if this is not gentle enough. But to be honest with you dear sister I am praying that God will give you greater discernment in what you read and listen to.
Please do not read into this as an attack on you or him, and I would not even have posted this if I had your email address.
Much love to you in Christ sister Linda, I btw, I absolutely love your passion and zeal for the Lord and your penchant for giving others the benefit of the doubt. But that does not mean we should put our heads in the sand either.
Hey Brother Mark:
I have some thoughts I would like you to consider and respond concerning RJC. I do not know very much at all about this man other than his name being circulated in the past year or so.
I do understand that he was making some predictions last year that I did not bear witness with as fear mongering and any profiting from it would be a red flag for me.
I do not know if this man has or is profiting by capitalizing upon fear as you said. For the most part I do not listen to so called prophetic warnings because I have heard many come and go where these warnings have fallen to the ground.
I was not going to listen to this either but decided to. Did you listen to it?
Here are my questions/thoughts. With only one run through the 13 minute video, I did not have any problem with what he said, no red flags. Again, I do not know a whole lot about JC but I do realize he set some dates I believe for 2015 which did not come to pass and there may be others??
I am reminded many times when some may be preaching, even if they are unregenerate, the words of Paul to the Philippian church.
Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: (16) The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: (17) But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defense of the gospel. (18) What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretense, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.
God says in His word that it will go forth and not return unto Him void, if God would use a jackass to rebuke Balaam, is it not possible that He can also speak through RJC?
I would also view this video more of an exhortation/admonishment as opposed to a prophetic warning.
Just some initial thoughts as my mother in law is WAITING!
Got to go.
Fearmongerers, let's see. That would include Franklin Graham, Carter Conlin, for a long time David Wilkerson..
Judgement and the slide is fearful.
Now whether we can pray and repent and slow the hand of God to pause, ( I liked the Rabbi bringing up how it looked like almerica was gonna collapse, and Christians prayed on the western side of the white house and the Lord brought us Reagan as president)or whether we can pray come Lord Jesus, take your inheritance and get rid of this vile soup of a planet, both are legitimate prayers yes? Sometimes I pray for one, sometimes for the other. Then its just, Your Will, Praise Your Holy Name. And then Im unattached to either result.
Now as far as predicting/or prophesying I dunno. But I know the Rabbi uncovered a seven year cycle Shmeitah that absolutely played out on the date. You could run a google search I suppose and see how like a hunk of this country and that country was wiped out. So true it be.
The only national Christian figures at the top right now ARE Franklin Graham and Rabbi Cahn. God Bless them both. I support them both.
Strain the gnats, swallow the camel.
I have read of Billy Graham, most tired doesnt know why the Lord wont take him home. This is one of his later books, maybe age 94..cant remember. I have a silly notion that when Billy Graham dies, then comes destruction. Im not a psychic or prophet. Just have a silly idea is all. If you could have a poster boy of american Christianity, he'd be it!
ps I put my email in and Ill leave it there unless I get hundreds of emails lol!
We are each entitled to our opinion but the fact is that SI is not Facebook right now, where anyone and anything is allowed to be posted.
I have my suspicions about Cahn but not about Conlon or Wilkerson who are both published on this site.
Promoting brother Cahn here is sanctioning his books and fictional beliefs. If we are going to do that then let's open up the flood gates and turn this place into a Christian Facebook.
It's not my website and I am not a moderator so I will let brother Greg have the final word on this.
By the way,
Without wanting to "get into it", Cahn NEVER set dates & said anything specific was going to happen on any specific day. And I'm not going to even get into the endlessly tiring job of defending what he shared, but you need to know the facts/truth before criticisizing such brethren publicly. I know EVERYTHING he did & DID NOT say. Others took what he said, cut & pasted out of the full context & added to it, to set dates, make ridiculous exaggerator statements about what would happen when & then everyone turned on Cahn when these others' add-ons didn't come true. Put down that sword of judgement & go through what he actually wrote, taught & said, otherwise - you should take your limited info judgement & criticism to the Lord. There's discernment & then there's just fault-finding, criticism, & judgementalness (3 sneaky forms of religious pride). And it's always directed at anyone with any "prophetic gifts" too. Let me ask you, who in this generation would you consider a prophet? Or are you in the class of cessationists who doesn't believe in such things at all anymore?
God Bless,
Jeff
Mark,
If you believe that just because someone has no links, articles, and sermons on Sermon Index that they are in error, then you are truly delusional.
Who is the one that lacks discernment here?
Just because everything that Jonathan Cahn has seen in scripture that would come to pass as a result of sin and rebellion but hasn't does not make him a false prophet.
David Wilkerson is a true prophet, but many of the things that he has warned of us many years ago have not come to pass yet.
There is a timing issue in prophesy, and there is also the issue that God will relent of His judgement on a people if there is true repentance.
Jonathan Cahn has basically been in line with the scriptures in what he has shared, and he has consistently preached a message of repentance.
You are right Mark and you put it very gently.
We can try and accommodate everyone but we need to find that "Narrow Way" and we need to know the direction we want to go, a bit like in Kadesh Barnea.
The basic instructions we have is to "go and preach the Gospel" - to be His witnesses etc.
Christ is everything - if once he is all we have.
Conlon or Wilkerson have a very strong desire to proclaim Christ and to build us up and yes to warn us when we need it.
Some good research on Mr Cahn's theories, speculations, conjecture and
cabalistic fuelled interpretations.
http://www.biblicalintegrity.org/2014/09/19/mystery-of-the-shemitah/
http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/2012/harbinger-zohar.htm
and
Here is the evidence that verifies that Mr Cahn and others are simply making things up regarding the shemitah .
This study was done by a Christian Professor, Dr.Adrian Zenz a
lecturer in empirical research methods at the European School of Culture\t
and Theology, Korntal, Germany.
https://rayliu1.files.wordpress.com/2015/09/cahn-shemitah-research-report.pdf
This is a synopsis of the study (not mine but accurate)
"Results:
- Basically no statistically significant correlations between Shemitah time periods and GDP downturns. Most Shemitah years or Elul-Tishri quarters had actually positive GDP growth.
- In particular, no chance to correlate Shemitah year GDP figures to spiritual or moral developments. Most GDP depressions during Shemitah years or times were before WW II.
- Even though Shemitah years or time periods showed on average slightly more negative stock market changes, the explanatory power (or coefficient of determination) of Shemitah versus non-Shemitah time periods was one percent or less! Meaning, there is a lot of random variation in the data that cannot be explained by a month or quarter being in the Shemitah or not. 99 percent of stock market variation must be attributed to other explanatory factors.
Also, it makes you see how deceptive Cahn's book is: selectively pushing confirming facts, and deliberately omitting a whole host of disconfirming facts."
Hey Jeff-
I will be the first to admit that I havent read all his books or listened to everything he ever said.
But I recall pretty distinctly that last fall he was stating there would be some sort of an economic meltdown (for lack of a better term) in conjunction with Shemitah, or the blood moon, etc. A lot of people bought his book to stay one step ahead of this impending crisis.
I don't recall having an economic meltdown last fall. But he sold a lot of books, nonetheless.
I just wish people who predict dire things would make all their materials available for free. Then there is no danger of conflict of interest or profiteering or fearmongering of whatever you want to call it. Fearmongering is one thing, but fearmongering **to fellow believers** is particularly distasteful.
Has he come out publicly and said he "missed" it last fall?
I would have far less problem with him if he would do this.
This has been done here on SI before, so I'm not sure it's worth the time, but he didn't say exactly what you're saying (& what he did say is TOTALLY confirmable If you're willing to look & not looking to "hack him"). Anyways, I've done this before & not sure it's worth it. And Rev, your info is not accurate. But hack him to pieces. Go ahead. Every idle word...
You saying it is inaccurate information does not make it is so.
No offence to you but prove your point otherwise these credible
sources will have sway in the matter
Dear sister Linda, I do not know how to say this gently but I will try. Many of us have left facebook because of the plethora of links to "dodgy" teachers. I do not mean to run Johnathon Cahn into the ground and that is not my intention. But this is a brother who has no links, articles or sermons on this website for a reason. And by "dodgy" I am using an Aussie term which essentially means, that you don't know what it is and can't really put your finger on it, but you are as yet still very unsure about an individual. In the case of Mr Cahn, he has made fortune and fame from fictitious stories that play into peoples fears and by perpetrating fables about end times matters. To the point where people take what he says almost as "gospel". This gives many of us here great pause about this so called teacher.
Saints,
We have been encouraging that other youtube videos and sermons are not posted to the forums in most cases. We cannot go through and listen and ensure these messages are Biblical and godly. There are hundreds of thousands of preachers on youtube and other sites with so many strange messages, ideas. We want most of the discussions to centre around materials on SermonIndex, which are not perfect, but are hopefully edifying to hear and promotes godliness in our lives.
At times something can be shared but we ask that in most cases we forgo sharing something that is controversial or not added to SermonIndex (in the tenor of speakers and emphasis).
When you drive into my city on the main highway you go down a big hill into a valley and the highway goes up with nothing but trees on both sides. Then standing oddly off to the side is a beautiful sign that says Barrie, it's a big sign with nothing around it but trees.
Now when people say they are going to Barrie they don't mean the sign. I have never seen people sitting by the sign eating lunch, in fact I have never seen anyone near the sign in the 25 years I've lived here at all, so what gives?
I'm thrilled by the blood moon and other words that have come out in the past few years. They are what they are SIGNS. Another 1/2 mile past the Barrie sign and boom the city starts to swarm out in every direction and on both sides of the same highway is a city of 140,000 people. But you would never know it from the Welcome to Barrie sign.
What the word from Cahn and others did was shake the trees, every prophetic wannabe in NA stuck out their necks and starting calling for dates, end of the world, end of time, rapture, tribulation, Elvis sightings, wrath of God, this date, that date, the real date.
Every person with two fingers a cheap camera and a YouTube channel felt the need to be at the front of the line and get it right, I saw guys with charts, girls with cats, pizza with extra pepperoni visions, NyQuil induced dreams and funny faces on animal crackers.
And all that was announced was SIGNS. That's it, the early warnings to repent, have some food at all times, get your money out of risk, lighten the load of crap on your life, SIGNS to watch and pray. But of course people go overboard and now the boat is far lighter and none of the non credibles will stick their necks out quit as quick again. I mean do you really think the Lord is going to return when Mr Jones in Sunday School could figure it out from a flow chart. I seem to recall something about a thief in the night and an hour when no one knows? But we are all called to recognize the sign of the times, it's vague but it's the right season!
But to the naysayers who will play it safe for the duration just look at the early warnings the signs have lined up with. Korea is testing nukes, Russia is looking to pick a fight with anybody, stock market confidence is equal to lending money to a bone fire, the Islamic State is front page every other day, The EU is going to go broke and dismantle and the US is going to have to elect a rock or a hard place while it's totally corrupt democracy is being exposed to the whole world. And the church has less influence on society than the Kiwanis Club.
Sounds like the last days to me.
Marc mc
I have watched video of Jonathan Cahn and heard him tie specific events and places to certain biblical passages and make the connection and implication for his audience. I simply had reservation about both his connection and his confidence.
My reservation has nothing to do with doubting we are in the last days or that perilous times are coming. My reservation comes from seeing a band wagon type get on board and join in the interesting new insights mentality.
I have not reached a conclusion or come to a judgment about Mr. Cahn. But I do not hesitate to caution others about his assertions and his confidence.
When brothers are put in a bad light simply for encouraging this type of caution, is this not a troubling sign. The Bereans were commended for questioning Paul, but brothers here who question a man making very precise and elaborate connections to events and scripture and predicting or suggesting possible outcomes and encouraging others to prepare for them,
somehow this is discouraged ..... hmmm.
I wonder who is really judging?
Mak
The story of Samuel the prophet in the OT is a good read when people start to talk about the role of a prophet. I always felt a little sad for those prophets of old because it was always like a double edged sword, They speak and nothing happens they get stoned, they speak the people listen do not repent they all endure captivity or judgement the prophets also and I am sure it was not pleasant for anyone alive than, including the prophets, they speak here comes the sword, enough people repent---who knows what that number is? and God relents, nothing happens--no judgements, some revival maybe, but the prophet looks like he/she is false because it appears like none of the judgements happened....
So I suppose you have to look at "what kind of prophesy it is", by that I mean is it a certain forth telling that is going to happen no matter what?Somewhat like when Jesus spoke of when He prophesied over Jerusalem, no amount of intercession was going to stop that from happening, no amount of revival, no amount of new converts to Christianity, etc...it was going to happen period, or is a prophesy meant to warn of the sword for those who hear so they may be spared? It is troubling to me to hear the catch phrase of, "fear mongers", because as a student of scripture Jesus spoke of Hell more than any other subject and if that's not fear preaching/teaching what is? So while I respect a great many on here who constantly argue away certain aspects of God's warning system I think it wise sometimes to be still because right now even a blind person can see America is in deep trouble and something is going to happen. As to prophets or not? I can tell you that at a critical time in my life David Wilkerson spoke to my heart in a meeting I was at and the direction of my life changed. I am so thankful for that.
Finial thought: If Jesus told his disciples to leave people alone who were going about doing what they saw Him do in His name for those who are not against us are with us(lk 9:49-50)and you may say these are False prophets---but are they actively seeking to turn people away from Jesus Christ as messiah? or are they just greedy, because if its just greed, than the Lord knows how to deal with that.
Questioning one to be cautious & test all things is TOTALLY different from calling people basically money loving liars & cultish divination artists.
It's important to mention at the end of the day Cahn really did not assert very much in the way of action. All it did for me is make me realize that I was not prepared for even a 2 week crunch of emergency.
I bought 2 large steel storage units and filled them with stuff we need and use all the time ( we now just rotate new stuff through) and we took 10k ( it took us 3 trips for them to have enough) in cash out of the bank. That's it. And I realized I should have done this years earlier.
In a crisis the stores food is gone in a day and the banks as I discovered don't actually have any money in them anymore. It's all electronic fiction. If you don't believe me go and withdraw $5000 and look at their faces. The manager told me all we can give you is $2500 and I would have to go to the other branch for the the other $2500. Think about it, that's what they said when the sun was shinning and the world was going along its merry way. It's one big cartel.
Marc mc
I do not wish to disparage this man of God, because I am truly thankful that he stands up and speak Gods truths in warning against sin and Gods judgement.
If I have done this then I pray that you would all forgive me.
Even so, I also pray that we might all be caught up in and be entirely focused on Jesus Christ with a simple and pure devotion to our Lord.
May we learn Christ in this way and turn aside from whatever the ever-increasing-heap-of-teachers are saying to our itching ears.
Todd,
To stop more links (& I think I already did this once on here before) I will email you when I have a chance if your email is under your file & you don't mind?
God Bless,
Jeff
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