The danger of believing in Total Sanctification

I have never heard anyone say they "CANNOT" sin.

With Jesus Christ we now have a choice. It is not that we cannot sin but we can choose not to. We don't have to sin. We are no longer in the grip of Satan.

Is that what Total Sanctification believes that man is incapable of sinning, now? That it is impossible to sin? Because, when you use the word "CANNOT", that is exactly what you are implying/saying.

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it. ”“ 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (NKJV)

As we can see, scripture confirms that we are to be entirely sanctified.

There is a great deal of misunderstanding about what it means. It does NOT mean that a man cannot sin again once he has been ES'ed. He can. It does not mean that once a man becomes a believer he does not sin. There is usually a period of struggle beforehand.

It also does not mean that a man can sin and call it a mistake. There have been many who have given it a bad name because of this.

It merely means that Christ can live within the believer, united with him and the man can be entirely submitted to Him, loving Him with his whole heart. It is the devil who says that man cannot overcome sin. Holiness is the life of Christ living in us and nothing to do with self effort or not needing the blood daily for us to walk in righteousness which is Christ.

There is no danger when we are hungering and thirsting for holiness.

He who calls you and is faithful will do it.

Sree if you mean me, I do not believe in sinless perfection. That was a misunderstanding. We can never reach a stage where we cannot sin if we so choose.

If others see us sin then we have sinned.

Hi sree, Brenda
I think I understand both of you, and agree with both.
The OP I believe speaks about those that don't think that sanctification is a process, while Brenda says that we can live our life clean and holy.
When Christ washed the disciple's feet He said to them that they are clean, but also said to them that they need their feet to be washed by him otherwise they have no communion with him. I believe that we can be clean and also regularly cleansed.
I think regular cleansing results in our growth, whether our growth results in actual literal holiness at the end of our life I don't know. But meanwhile we can be holy in the sense that we do not commit knowingly any sin.
God does not convict us of all sins at ones. He continually brings our sins to our knowledge, as we grow that's why is there a regular cleansing.
I understand OP's concern, and fully agree.
This is only my opinion, and I desire to learn more about this topic.

To repeat: I am not saying that a man does not need the blood daily to keep him cleansed, it must be applied daily. Righteouness is of Christ not us. The moment we step outside of that blood we are down.

Unfortunately there have been many who held scewed beliefs about ES. The verse I gave says that we are to be preserved till His coming, not that the act will be performed then.

I hear Christians say that they have sins and how can they stop. Or they do not have victory over one area. Poonan might teach the overcoming life but does he give that testimony? Does he say when and how it happened?

Yes I agree that there is a process when God shows us more and more of our sins. This is what the law does in order to bring us to Christ to be cleansed. There must come a point though where He is all and we are submitted and no longer have self left.

by brenda7 on 2016/6/11 15:01:32

It does NOT mean that a man cannot sin again once he has been ES'ed. He can.

Sree, I think you read this excerpt from Brenda too fast. It is also a double negative so can be difficult to comprehend. She is not saying that we do not need the blood of Christ daily.

by brenda7 on 2016/6/11 15:01:32

It is the devil who says that man cannot overcome sin. Holiness is the life of Christ living in us and nothing to do with self effort or not needing the blood daily for us to walk in righteousness which is Christ.

Let me try to reword what she is saying and we can let Brenda confirm.

Holiness is the life of Christ living in us and has NOTHING to do with NOT needing the blood daily for us to walk in righteousness.

In other words. WE DO NEED the BLOOD of CHRIST, DAILY.

At least that is what I am comprehending.

By the way, I think you should use scriptures because some of your posts are confusing. Can you please try to use some scriptures? It is not our words that shine the light but rather the Word of God.

Thanks Julius that is what I meant. Double negative oops!

The problem with using scripture is the two ways it is being interpreted and you can argue forever about that.

I understand, but scripture is helpful. I liked your scripture on sanctification. People can argue forever about anything. We all need revelation of what it means that Jesus Christ is now living in us.

Jesus wants us to believe and say the prince of this world "hath nothing in me."

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

tuc has some good posts lately on where sin comes from, or should I say, WHO?

"There must come a point though where He is all and we are submitted and no longer have self left."
There is a point when we are totally surrendered. That does not mean that it remains that way as long as we are in this life. The trials and temptations cause us to move out from that point of "total surrender" but we can go back there by grace. As long as we have the flesh we rely on Christ's grace to be at the point of total surrender. Theoretically we could remain there, and I believe the more mature someone is, the more time he spends there, but we have a corrupted flesh, that remains until we die, plus God would test us according to our maturity so even very mature Christians will face difficult challenges. The purpose of the whole process is strengthening our faith. That point that you are talking about will come at the point of our glorification.

sree, I did not notice. But she explained it later.

I understand, but scripture is helpful. I liked your scripture on sanctification. People can argue forever about anything. We all need revelation of what it means that Jesus Christ is now living in us.

Jesus wants us to believe and say the prince of this world "hath nothing in me."

John 14:30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

tuc has some good posts lately on where sin comes from, or should I say, WHO?

Amen Julius. Where is tuc!

Tozsu wrote: There is a point when we are totally surrendered. That does not mean that it remains that way as long as we are in this life. The trials and temptations cause us to move out from that point of "total surrender" but we can go back there by grace. As long as we have the flesh we rely on Christ's grace to be at the point of total surrender. Theoretically we could remain there, and I believe the more mature someone is, the more time he spends there

I can agree with this. When we are in full surrender, the life of Christ is manifest in us and rivers of living water pour from us to bless others.

To get there requires faith in His power to overcome. When there we rely on His grace alone. Very few are able to remain in full surrender all of the time, but are hopefully restored through repentance if they fall despite Christ giving us the ability to withstand temptation. We will sometimes start to rely on our selves again and down we will go. As tuc says, we are either possessed by God or Satan, the kingdom of God or the kingdom of darkness.

The question is, what is it like to be in grace?

by brenda7 on 2016/6/11 16:37:44

Tozsu wrote: There is a point when we are totally surrendered. That does not mean that it remains that way as long as we are in this life. The trials and temptations cause us to move out from that point of "total surrender" but we can go back there by grace. As long as we have the flesh we rely on Christ's grace to be at the point of total surrender. Theoretically we could remain there, and I believe the more mature someone is, the more time he spends there

I can agree with this. When we are in full surrender, the life of Christ is manifest in us and rivers of living water pour from us to bless others.

To get there requires faith in His power to overcome. When there we rely on His grace alone. Very few are able to remain in full surrender all of the time, but are hopefully restored through repentance if they fall despite Christ giving us the ability to withstand temptation. We will sometimes start to rely on our selves again and down we will go. As tuc says, we are either possessed by God or Satan, the kingdom of God or the kingdom of darkness.

The question is, what is it like to be in grace?

I can agree with that, too.

The maturity that God wants in our lives is for us to mature in godly love and thus we are being conformed to the image of His Son. When we choose to love all men we are choosing to draw our life from Christ. As we mature in love we come to understand what it means to love the Lord our God with all of our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbor as ourselves. This takes the cross and denying "self". We come to know also, why the man that "loveth another hath fulfilled the law".

1Pet 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

I used to think that 1 Peter 4:1 was speaking about people that were being tortured for their faith, but the Lord showed me that He is talking about all Christians who are willing to suffer in the flesh by bearing their Cross, daily which means to deny the flesh and choose to live by His life.

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.

Brenda,
What about this part? It was to bring balance to my post.

" but we have a corrupted flesh, that remains until we die, plus God would test us according to our maturity so even very mature Christians will face difficult challenges. The purpose of the whole process is strengthening our faith. That point that you are talking about will come at the point of our glorification."

Julius and Tozsu

I agree that we are tested to strengthen our faith though not tempted by God, but the flesh is to be crucified so that we walk after the Spirit Romans 6. Flesh that is alive has not been dealt with. Flesh is all things human not just sin. It must be under the cross in this life and not the life to come.

Jesus Christ had the same flesh as we do.

Heb 4:15 For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

added this

Heb 2:17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.

Brenda said:
"There must come a point though where He is all and we are submitted and no longer have self left."

My opinion:
but we have a corrupted flesh, that remains until we die.

That point that you are talking about will come at the point of our glorification.