persecution: good or bad?

Should we run to hide in the basement when we hear the warning sirens of a "coming persecution"?

Persecution is already part of our life, through our standing gracefully in persecution we convict the world for repentance. I heard the testimony of this person who angrily threw the tracts at this christian lady threatening and ridiculing her but she kept coming and kept loving him. Seeing her forgiving and loving attitude he finally become broken about his sins, and repented. Similar persecution is shown in recent christian movies such as God is not dead 1 and 2.

1 Peter 2:20-21
"20 For what credit is it if, when you sin and are beaten for it, you endure? But if when you do good and suffer for it you endure, this is a gracious thing in the sight of God. 21 For to this you have been called, because Christ also suffered for you, leaving you an example, so that you might follow in his steps."

Acts 5:41King James Version (KJV)

41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.

Matthew 10:28King James Version (KJV)

"28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Romans 8:35-39King James Version (KJV)

35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?

36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.

Persecution does not kill the church but strengthens it.
I pray that God would give us grace when facing persecution so it could work for His glory whether it comes to us on personal or state level.

Dear brother,

You are right, we should be all the more willing during persecution to share the words of life and we will seek the Lord more desperately for His baptism of love for persecutors.

The challenge to us now is that why will we not witness and share the Lord with people when it is less persecution and easier, a time is coming when speaking for the Lord could end in a jail cell immediately!

Acts 4:23-31 New International Version (NIV)

The Believers Pray
23 On their release, Peter and John went back to their own people and reported all that the chief priests and the elders had said to them. 24 When they heard this, they raised their voices together in prayer to God. "Sovereign Lord,” they said, "you made the heavens and the earth and the sea, and everything in them. 25 You spoke by the Holy Spirit through the mouth of your servant, our father David:

"‘Why do the nations rage
and the peoples plot in vain?
26 The kings of the earth rise up
and the rulers band together
against the Lord
and against his anointed one.[a]’[b]
27 Indeed Herod and Pontius Pilate met together with the Gentiles and the people of Israel in this city to conspire against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed. 28 They did what your power and will had decided beforehand should happen. 29 Now, Lord, consider their threats and enable your servants to speak your word with great boldness. 30 Stretch out your hand to heal and perform signs and wonders through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

31 After they prayed, the place where they were meeting was shaken. And they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the word of God boldly.

Susanna writes..........

"Should we run to hide in the basement when we hear the warning sirens of a "coming persecution"

Wow, way to mix up the analogy with the reality. I read what the brother wrote, He said that we should run deeper into the heart of God when we see the persecution coming. Do you know what happens when you run deeper into the heart of God sister? You love more, you read the word more, you witness more, you forgive more, you are more bold not less.

Maybe you simply misunderstand what an analogy is? It's the comparison between two things, typically on the basis of their structure and for the purpose of explanation or clarification. Blaine was explaining what the purpose of warning was, what the purpose of being a watchman on the wall was. The warning is intended to drive people deeper into the heart of God, not to go to an actual basement and hide, sheesh. Hopefully, at the least you are just being obtuse or we will have to abandon analogies because folks dont know what they mean............bro Frank

PS Here is what the brother actually wrote............

I offer this analogy of the tornado warnings as those who warn of upcoming persecution. Those who speak of upcoming persecution that is coming on the shores of America are doing so to encourage Christiane to go to shelter. I do not mean the shelter of a bunker. But I mean go to the bowels of the Father's Heart. This is the encouragement. The storm of persecution is coming. Our safe room is the father heart of God. Our safe room is to be in the hands of the Holy Spirit.

I apologize for misrepresenting the statement about the sirens.
I understand now that the basement was meant to be God's presence. However I maintain that the analogy is incorrect, because a tornado shelter keeps us uneffected by the tornado, while God would not keep us uneffected by persecution. When we are persecuted we are suffering, and God allows that, as he also allowed the suffering of His Son.

Picturing the persecution as a tornado is also incorrect. Tornadoes only do damage and destruction, while persecution strengthens and purifies the church, and can not destroy it.
I would picture deception as a tornado.

Sister,

There is wonderful truth there that deception is much more dangerous then outward persecution.

In the end the Scriptures are clear that persecution is not really good or bad (for it is both!) but will "happen".

2 Timothy 3:12 New International Version (NIV)

12 In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted,

Dear sister I think you're trying to over analyze the analogy. An analogy only serves to illustrate something. Analogies are not perfect.

Granted the tornado analogy falls short. But I was trying to use it to address your earlier point you were bringing up on the other thread. You said that my post did not have encouragment. You implied that my post was creating fear. Thus the analogy of a tornado siren and tornado. It was meant to convey a warning and enxouragement.

My sister I'm very aware of how God uses persecution to perfect His people. I have had people from the front lines on my prayer call who have testified of the reality of Christ in the midst of their sufferings. Also the devotional thread I opened up, Of The Persecuted, reflects much of what I've heard and read. You may want to check it out sometime.

Tozsu I invite you to come and join our call as we pray for the persecuted church and the global harvest of souls. My email is in my profile. If you write me I will be glad to send you the call information.

Must go now dear sister. Have a bus to catch.

Bro B.

Speaking about his persecution Joseph said to his brothers:

Genesis 50:20King James Version (KJV)

20 But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive.

2 Corinthians 4:15-18King James Version (KJV)

15 For all things are for your sakes, that the abundant grace might through the thanksgiving of many redound to the glory of God.

16 For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

17 For our light affliction, which is but for a moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal weight of glory;

18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.

Agreed my sister.:) We are on the same page ;) Come pray with us for our persecuted brothers and sisters.:)

Breaux B.

I'll open a new thread for discussion about being on the same page, and continue this thread about the OP.

Romans 8:28
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

Good stuff Docs, thanks for sharing the link.
God Bless,
Jeff

3.To demonstrate the power of the resurrection to the heavenlies through testing and weakness.

... Behold I send you out as sheep in the midst of wolves, so be shrewd as serpents and innocent as doves...Matthew 10:16

One must wonder about the strategy of Jesus. Sheep are pretty dumb animals and know nothing. And yet it would be the sheep that would bring down the wolves.

It might be that Jesus is demonstrating the power of His Resurrection in the heavenlies by living His resurrected life through dump sheet like us. But in the end the wolves don't win. That sheep will triumph over the wolves.

Simply my thoughts.

Breaux B.

by docs on 2016/6/18 1:28:57

If the church has a eschatological role to play up until the very last, what would that role be and what process would allow or employ to bring a last days church to a fulness that the world could no longer overlook? I'm just offering a somewhat short but in my opinion insightful article that addresses the subject of suffering and persecution. I'm not asking everyone to agree but we can ponder things together. Israel is mentioned and if that sets you off for good or bad and you want to be uncivil towards other brothers and sisters in Christ who are just as committed as you are even though you disagree with them then stay out of the comments please. But the article speaks to much more than that. The subject of this thread and the OP is growing more and more vital to grasp in my opinion.

Blessings.

http://the.mysteryofisrael.org/courses/apocalyptic-evangelism-2002/what-difference-does-it-make-how-christians-view-prophecy/

Hi David,

I was mildly arrested by the title. Just an observation that I don't see the phrase "Mystery of Israel" anywhere in the Bible (the name of his blog). For that matter and to be fair, I don't see the phrase "Mystery of the Church" (part of his title), either. Just a quick observation, don't really want to talk about eschatology, either.

So, who then makes the definition of the Mystery of Israel or the Mystery of the Church if they are not in the Bible?

Here is what I find:

Mystery of Iniquity
Mystery of Godliness
Mystery of Faith
Mystery of the Kingdom of God
Mystery of His will
Mystery of Christ
Mystery among the Gentiles
Mystery of God
Mystery of Godliness
Mystery of the seven stars
Mystery of the Woman

I think this would count for Mystery of the Church:
This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church. (Eph 5:32)

It is possible that he is coining the phrase "Mystery of Israel" from the following verses:

Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

With that quick study, I now amend my opening remarks and can see where he is getting the two phrases, "Mystery of Israel" and "Mystery of the Church".

Now, I will continue to read the article, even though Reggie is a well-known Hebrew Roots teacher, I will keep an open mind.

Have a good day,

I think you meant to say bro, Not baaad like a sheep.:)

... Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men...1 Cor. 1:25

It seems that God develops the above thought in the last half of 1st Corinthians chapter one. But like you said brother man's wisdom cannot touch what God is doing.

I think this dumb sheep better quit while he's ahead. :-)

Breaux B.

Matthew 10:16-20King James Version (KJV)

16 Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.

17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;

18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles.

19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak.

20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

God never calls us so. We are precious in his sight he would not use a derogatory word when referring to us.

Matthew 9:36King James Version (KJV)

36 But when he saw the multitudes, he was moved with compassion on them, because they fainted, and were scattered abroad, as sheep having no shepherd.

Matthew 25:32-33King James Version (KJV)

32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:

33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.

John 10:11-15King James Version (KJV)

11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.

13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.

14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.

15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.