The basis of unity and agreement among Christians

In the Bible when the truth needed to be be decided about something it was always required to bring two witnesses. Truth is very important for righteous judgement, so bearing false witness is a serious sin.
Christians need to worship God in Spirit and truth.
What is the truth?
I believe there is a simple method to find out by using two witnesses: 1 The written word of God, 2 The Holy Spirit testifying in us.
The spirit in us can be identified as the Holy Spirit by this:
If it agrees with the written word it is the Holy Spirit.

With those who do not subject themselves to the authority of the scriptures I can only agree to disagree. Which is OK on this forum for now.

I'm with you Tozsu. The Spirit and the Word must agree (because they are one).

The "sword" which the Spirit utilizes is the Word of God. The Spirit is bound by the word of God. They are in perfect unity. They do not work independent of one another.

Ephesians 6:17
And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

More witnesses:
The disciples witness about Jesus, that he came in the flesh, they are eye witnesses, they saw him and walked with him.
The four gosples witness about the ministry of Jesus. That all those events really happened. Jesus witnesses about the scriptures that they are truth, the OT witnesses about Jesus that He is the Messiah.

Julius, this is a similar one:

John 16:13-15King James Version (KJV)

13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

"Seeing "no man knoweth the Father but the Son, and he to whom the Son revealeth him"; and seeing the "revelation of the Son is in and by the Spirit" (Matt. 11:27); therefore the testimony of the Spirit is that alone by which the true knowledge of God hath been, is, and can be only revealed; who as, by the moving of his own Spirit, he disposed the chaos of this world into that wonderful order wherein it was in the beginning, and created man a living soul, to rule and govern it, so, by the revelation of the same Spirit, he hath manifested himself all along unto the sons of men, both patriarchs, prophets, and apostles; which revelations of God by the Spirit, whether by outward voices and appearances, dreams, or inward objective manifestations in the heart, were of old the formal object of their faith, and remain yet so to be, since the object of the saints' faith is the same in all ages, though held forth under divers administrations. Moreover, these divine inward revelations, which we make absolutely necessary for the building up of true faith, neither do nor can ever contradict the outward testimony of the Scriptures, or right and sound reason. Yet from hence it will not follow, that the divine revelations are to be subjected to the test, either of the outward testimony of the Scriptures, or of the natural reason of man, as to a more noble or certain rule and touchstone; for this divine revelation and inward illumination, is that which is evident and clear of itself, forcing, by its own evidence and clearness, the well-disposed understanding to assent, irresistibly moving the same thereunto, even as the common principles of natural truths do move and incline the mind to a natural assent: as, that the whole is greater than its part, that two contradictories can neither be both true, nor both false.

§I. It is very probable, that many carnal and natural Christians will oppose this proposition; who being wholly unacquainted with the movings and actings of God's Spirit upon their hearts, judge the same nothing necessary; and some are apt to flout at it as ridiculous; yea, to that height are the generality of Christians apostatised and degenerated, that though there be not anything more plainly asserted, more seriously recommended, nor more certainly attested to, in all the writings of the holy Scriptures, yet nothing is less minded and more rejected by all sorts of Christians, than immediate and divine revelation; insomuch that once to lay claim to it is matter of reproach. Whereas of old none were ever judged Christians, but such as "had the Spirit of Christ" (Rom. 8:9).

But now many do boldly call themselves Christians, who make no difficulty of confessing they are without it, and laugh at such as say they have it. Of old they were accounted "the sons of God, who were led by the Spirit of God" (ibid. v. 14). But now many aver themselves sons of God, who know nothing of this leader; and he that affirms himself so led, is, by the pretended orthodox of this age, presently proclaimed a heretic. The reason hereof is very manifest, viz.: Because many in these days, under the name of Christians, do experimentally find, that they are not acted nor led by God's Spirit; yea, many great doctors, divines, teachers, and bishops of Christianity (commonly so called) have wholly shut their ears from hearing, and their eyes from seeing this inward guide, and so are become strangers unto it; whence they are, by their own experience, brought to this strait, either to confess that they are as yet ignorant of God, and have only the shadow of knowledge, and not the true knowledge of him, or that this knowledge is acquired without immediate revelation.

For the better understanding then of this proposition, we do distinguish betwixt the certain knowledge of God, and the uncertain; betwixt the spiritual knowledge, and the literal; the saving heart-knowledge, and the soaring, airy head-knowledge. The last, we confess, may be divers ways obtained; but the first, by no other way than the inward immediate manifestation and revelation of God's Spirit, shining in and upon the heart, enlightening and opening the understanding."

Very important topic and good discussion.
Paul wrote: "When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I decided to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and Him crucified.(1 Corinthians 2:2)

and..."for you are all one in Christ Jesus..."Galatians 3:28

This suggest that we can only have true unity "in Christ Jesus" But it also means that Scripture doesn't require us to have unity and agreement in all the doctrines, I'm using end time doctrines and views as an example.

One more thing, in a church situation the elders have a big responsibility and have to make many decisions. As members we have to submit to the elders even if we might not always agree. Maybe I can use the music style as an example.

What does it mean to be "one in Christ Jesus" ?

by brothagary on 2016/6/18 6:03:02

Obviously if we had paul him self expounding and explaing scripture and his apostolic revalations ,therewould be no disagreement amongst us , wether we liked it or not , would you challenge paul???

The Bereans challenged Paul.

Others challenged him, too as he had to appeal on numerous occasions for the Church to be in agreement and speak the same thing. He did not mean someone could not have differing opinions on non-essentials, but that on major doctrines we should all reflect the mind of Christ.

It is important no matter how we disagree on non-essentials that we realize we are one body and part of the Church together. Our Lord did not ask the disciples to have perfect doctrines in everything but rather love for each other. Something the world really does not have.

--

Having a Right Doctrine but Wrong Spirit

There is a saying: "You can be so right that you become wrong.” Unfortunately, some in Church history were right in their doctrines but in their practice and heart attitudes they were wrong. The goal of Christian life is to know and love God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit, resulting in a glorious and personal relationship with the Triune God. Where we love Him, worship Him, serve Him, obey Him and where we experience His love and His care for us.629
! Scholars and theologians can write about God but at the same time not experientially know Him.630 Doctrines coming from such men in many cases will lead believers into scholastic studies about God but not the very experience of Him. Good doctrines can provide us with foundational principles based on a correct interpretation of the Word of God. But, only the most basic doctrines are necessary to help unify the body of Christ””which is the Church. Too many doctrines divide without being essential to the faith. There was a danger in the early Church of those who looked into many obscure doctrinal teachings but
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were not living in obedience to the simplicity of the faith in Jesus Christ and being led of His Spirit.631 Doctrines rooted in man-made terms, ideas and explanations can even lead a believer away from the Lord Himself. Good doctrines are helpful, but growing in discipleship with the Lord Jesus Christ is more important. 632 Though there is Scriptural warrant and benefit to study the character of God and His ways. God does not call us to be theologians merely but disciples who practice what Jesus taught. "Christians now choose churches based upon particular doctrines, and having the right theology has become the most important thing rather than having the right lifestyle, all because a Biblical model has been abandoned.”633
! A re-reading of the New Testament with this as our mindset helps us to see clearly that the thinking and lifestyle of Christians has changed in many countries of the world. The effects of humanism, secularism, materialism, and entertainment have brought doctrines of Satan into the Church,634 resulting in churches accepting such doctrines as ordaining profane ministers who are living in sin635 and practicing sin,636 and other new doctrines such as the prosperity doctrines.637 Some churches and denominations are misusing the miracles of God for their purposes to obtain money.638 Other churches, denominations and many bible colleges in the world
today deny that the miracles of God took place or
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they deny the power and miracles of God being applicable to our lives today. In some countries, witnessing for Christ has become an exercise of not offending the freedom of other faiths and keeping our mouths closed. If this is true of us then we truly have become the lukewarm Church that Jesus spoke about. He will spit us out of His mouth unless we repent.639 We must return to the principles and doctrines of the early Church as a way of life640 and as a living response to knowing the very Person of God, Jesus Christ.
! "The Pharisees sat in the chair of Moses, which meant that they had gone to Bible colleges and gotten their doctorate degrees and had an abundance of accurate knowledge. Jesus even told His disciples to do all that the Pharisees taught. So what the Pharisees taught must have been right. But they did not obey what they knew to be right.”641 If we do not combine our knowledge with obedience642 it will bring spiritual death and disaster to all around us.643 Salvation is not knowing a doctrine or understanding all the nuances of salvation. Salvation is experiencing the very person, of the Lord Jesus Christ.644 When Paul the Apostle preached the Good News he did not have a specific list of doctrines but rather preached the person of Christ, presenting Him to the people.645 "Not a doctrine, or a religion, or a catechism, but a Person, an exceedingly great and precious Person,
this Preeminent Christ.”646
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! "If ‘Christ is all’ to you, you are Christians; and I, for one, am ready to give you the right hand of brotherhood. I do not mind what place of worship you attend, or by what distinctive name you may call yourselves, we are brethren; and I think, therefore, that we should love one another. If, my friends, you cannot embrace all who love the Lord Jesus Christ, no matter to what denomination they may belong, and cannot regard them as your brethren in the Lord, and as belonging to the universal Church, you have not hearts large enough to go to heaven.”647 As the body of Christ we need to represent God’s love and unity to all fellow believers in the family of God.
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from: https://ia800202.us.archive.org/28/items/principlesv4/27_Principle26.pdf

Yes, He wants us to be "perfected in love", not doctrine.

Though, "doctrine of Christ" is love for His commandments, which is love for Him.

2Jn 1:6 AND THIS IS LOVE, THAT WE WALK AFTER HIS COMMANDMENTS. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.
2Jn 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jn 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jn 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jn 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jn 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

"would you challenge paul???"

This is a good question.
The point of the original post was that I do not make assumptions about the truth without witnesses and evidence. (just as a good judge would do)
The disciples first looked at the evidence (Paul's testimony) and the witness (Barnabas) and the spirit of Paul's teaching.

Acts 9:26-28King James Version (KJV)

26 And when Saul was come to Jerusalem, he assayed to join himself to the disciples: but they were all afraid of him, and believed not that he was a disciple.

27 But Barnabas took him, and brought him to the apostles, and declared unto them how he had seen the Lord in the way, and that he had spoken to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.

28 And he was with them coming in and going out at Jerusalem.

Gary, do I have to agree on everything that you believe? No. If you want to drink wine and I don't believe it is good then on that nonessential I will disagree, but I won't disfellowship you unless you Brenda to my will. Or, vice-versa.

You need scriptures?

Romans 14:1-6

Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations. For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs. Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him. Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind. He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

There are some who will not fellowship with others unless they observe a physical once a week Sabbath. And there are some who will not fellowship with others because they drink a little wine. Surely, you are not one of those people who will disfellowship others over non-essentials.

Ephesians 4:1-3King James Version (KJV)

4 I therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you that ye walk worthy of the vocation wherewith ye are called,

2 With all lowliness and meekness, with longsuffering, forbearing one another in love;

3 Endeavouring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace.

Ephesians 4:11-16King James Version (KJV)

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.