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Food for Thought: The mark of the beast.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

The idolatrous intent of religion is evidenced as the second beast tells people "to make an image to the beast" (13:14). The Greek word for "image" is eikon from which we get the English word "icon." Religion specializes in making external and idolatrous "graven images." Unable to accept that "Christ is the image of God" (Col. 1:15; II Cor. 4:4), and that God desires that His divine character be visibly expressed in the behavior of man, religion instead seeks to construct an external visible expression. These may take the form of tangible likenesses of creatures or men as well as religious buildings, or they may be intangible constructs of belief-systems and morality, or the ecclesiastical organizations of institutional religion. Idols all the same! Religion proceeds to attempt "to give breath to the image of the beast" (13:15), to make it "come alive," and invest it with spiritual life and activity, while also making it "speak" (13:15) with pompous pronouncements of piety. Those who "do not worship the image of the beast are killed" (13:15). Religion will tolerate no refusal to conform to its tenets. The intolerance of religion is well documented in its destruction and death of nonconformists.

This second beastly form of religion "causes all to be given a mark on their right hand, or on their forehead" (13:16). Conformity of outward identification is important to religion. Religious adherents must be identified by what they do with their "hands" in moral activity and by what they think with their "heads" in an epistemological belief-system. Religion "brands" people so that the whole of society will be "stamped" by their religious adherence and it will "mark" everything they do. This includes the right to economic exchange, for "no one should be able to buy or to sell, except the one who has the mark, of the name of the beast or the number of his name" (13:17). Religion creates an in-bred favoritism for conformists who bear the "mark" of the "name" of the beast, perhaps by expressing the diabolic character of the one who energizes religion, for "name" often represents character. The "number of his name" also represents the character of the devil in "self-effort." Those who do not share the "mark" are stigmatized for economic ostracism and boycott. History adequately records these repressive economic actions of religion, and such can still be seen today in the exclusivistic economic practices of evangelicals with their "sign of the fish" on business cards and advertising.

Christians constantly need the wisdom of Christ (I Cor. 1:24,30) to discern Satan's activity from Christ's activity, to distinguish between religion and genuine Christianity. "Here is wisdom," declares the risen Lord Jesus. "Let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of man; and his number is six hundred and sixty-six" (13:18). Throughout the Revelation numbers have symbolic significance. Seven is the number of divine perfection, and if the number seven were triplicated as seven hundred and seventy-seven it would represent the triune perfection of the Godhead. The number six falls short of that which is of God. Man certainly falls short of that which is of God and brings glory to God (Rom. 3:23). Six hundred and sixty-six is a number that comes short of perfection. It is a parody on the divine trinity of perfection represented by seven hundred and seventy-seven. It is a number that represents the beast of religion, which though inspired and energized by the self-oriented, rebellious activity of Satan, is evidenced by man's self-effort to appease and please God apart from Jesus Christ. Religion is man's best efforts to construct moral systems and theological formulations and institutional structures. It is the best that man can do as he tries to reach God, just as he did at Babel (Gen. 11:1-9).

The "number of the beast" is explicitly identified as "the number of man" (13:18). Many translations and interpretations of this text supply an indefinite article which indicates that the number of the beast is "a man." The original Greek language of the Revelation has no indefinite article, and proper hermeneutic principles allow us to supply such in English translation only if the context demands such for clarity of expression. Such is not the case in this instance. When the indefinite article is supplied it gives the impression that the second beast is to be identified as a singular and particular individual man. This has led to much religious obsession with decoding the cryptographic number of "six hundred and sixty-six" in order to identify a particular person. Speculations have included Nero, Caligula, other Roman emperors, Mohammed, various Roman Catholic popes, Martin Luther, John Calvin, Napoleon, Mussolini, Hitler, various United States presidents, leaders of Russia, etc. The numbers can arbitrarily and subjectively be twisted in order to apply to anyone! When such a procedure is employed the primary emphasis of the vision is missed. There is no need to identify this number as a particular historical individual. When the indefinite article is not supplied, a consistent contextual meaning is evident as the "number of the beast" is explained to be the "number of man" or the "number of mankind" as he engages in religious endeavors. Those who would demand a translation and interpretation that supplies the indefinite article identifying the number of the beast as "a man," must also allow the Jehovah's Witnesses to do the same in their translation of John 1:1, wherein they indicate that the Word was "a god." Few Christian religionists would want to allow such, but equity of translation technique would demand such.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/revbeast.html

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

Makes sense to me.

I have to admit when I was younger the idea of a "giant robot" (Rev. 13:15) enforcing the will of the antichrist-- like Gort in "The Day the Earth Stood Still"-- was pretty frightening.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

This is some of what James A. Fowler author of the article that J promotes teaches . He is a Grade A heretic. These are his own published writings

ALL HUMANITY ...

... is integrally united with God ”“ the separation of sin is but an illusion of a depraved mind.
... is subsumed into God’s being in the union of deity and humanity in the God-man, Jesus.

... is drawn into fellowship and participation with the Triune God via the humanity of Jesus.
... is granted access into the Holy of Holies of God’s presence via Jesus.

... is replaced with the humanity of Christ before God. Jesus was the "Man for all man>”
... has been vicariously substituted for as Jesus was born, lived, and died "in our stead.”

... is baptized into Christ ”“ overwhelmed into Him by His assumption of our humanity.
... is "born again” by the incarnational birth of Jesus in the womb of Mary.

... is relationally "in Christ,” i.e. has a relation with God by the life and work of Jesus.
... is a "new creature in Christ,” for Jesus Christ has recreated humanity in Himself.

... has been transformed from being sub-human to being Christ-humans ”“ a Christ-replaced humanity.
... has undergone an ontological exchange of being, nature, identity & character in union with Christ.

... is imputed with the entire character and being of Christ ”“ human being has become Christ-being.
... is a Christ-instilled race ”“ an ontologically altered race of human creatures.

... became "partakers of the divine nature” when the divine-human Jesus became the redemptive integrator of God and man.
... had the choice made for them, when Christ chose to become Man and live "as us.”
... has exercised faith in God by the "faith of Christ” ”“ Christ is the faith-er for all mankind.
... is considered obedient by God, by the obedience of Jesus Christ in our place. Jesus is the "Obedient One.”
... prayerfully communes with God through the prayers of Jesus ”“ Jesus is the pray-er for us.
... worships God the Father via the worship of Jesus Christ ”“ Jesus is the worshipper as us.
... functions by the enlivening of Christ, for "in Him we live and move and have our being.

... functions by the provision of Christ, for "apart from Him, we can do nothing.”
... has entered "eternal life” in Christ, and "are seated with Christ in the heavenlies.”

... participates in the eternal heavenly destiny in Christ ... can disregard all the religious threats of hell ”“ ain’t no such place, and nobody’s going there.

"Do evangelicals believe in the Triune God who revealed Himself in the Son, Jesus Christ, who by His objective-universal "finished work” has accomplished and continues to implement everything necessary for the restoration of humanity? "

It is a distinctive of evangelicalism to emphasize belief in the Bible, elevating the book and its literalistic interpretation to a place of saving importance in a Biblicism that verges on Bibliolatry.

Those who neglect or deny the "objective-universal” foundation of what God has done in Christ for ALL men are in grave danger of building their thought-edifice on the shifting sands of subjectivity, with an undue emphasis on human action rather than God’s actions.

”“ when we fail to affirm that the "objective-universal” acts of God in the "finished work” of Jesus Christ have effected everything necessary for the salvation of mankind

‘’’''and has given Himself entirely "once and for all” to take the death consequences of our sin and to provide His divine Life to ALL mankind.

"Since all human persons are "spirit-beings” with the "inner light” deep inside, the need amongst men is simply to become aware of their common enlightenment.

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

NDY-

Many mainstream Bible teachers teach the exact same thing regarding the "beast." So your point is not well-taken.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

Good stuff NDY. We shoul not heed the apostates opinions and blatant heresies like this imposter.

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

perhaps if you guys would indicate which points in NDY's post indicate heresy, it would be helpful. The reason I ask is that clearly not everything quoted is heresy.

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

perhaps if you guys would indicate which points in NDY's post indicate heresy, it would be helpful. The reason I ask is that clearly not everything quoted is heresy.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

This is the reason he doesn't want to be taken out of context. Links should be provided for evil motives can proceed by taking people out of context.


T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

Doing a little further checking, the "quote" in NDY's post is not a quote of Jim Fowler believes.

Rather, it is Jim Fowler quoting what "evangelical calvinists" believe who he was apparently debating against. I must say NDY that is a tad disingenuous on your part.

Here is the link to the actual article: https://growrag.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/a-second-response-to-jim-fowler-ec-theological-exegesis-and-dialectic/

PS: I personally have no idea who Jim Fowler is. But I dont like to see people slurred, especially when done so in a disingenuous manner for the sole purpose of trying to discredit by association what another poster has written.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

Of course!! I expect nothing less from those two.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

more writings from Julious's quoted heretic of the month.

Here is some of what fouler teaches as an "objective univeralist he claims to be.

"Objective Universal
ALL
ALL humanity loved by God
ALL humanity graced by God
ALL humanity elected in Christ ALL humanity represented by Christ ALL humanity died in Christ
ALL humanity redeemed in Christ ALL humanity forgiven in Christ ALL humanity reconciled in Christ ALL humanity adopted in Christ ALL humanity saved by Christ ALL humanity has life in Christ ALL humanity righteous in Christ ALL humanity blessed in Christ ALL humanity is "in Christ”
ALL humanity drawn to Christ"

Heresy

And this is the actual source material not what TMK quoted,

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/pdfs/ExtentEfficacyEbook.pdf

These are his heretical beliefs.
And it goes to credibility. When commenting on other doctrinal matters when having even the basic fundamental truths so utterly wrong why should anyone listed to anything else this or any other heretic has to say.

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

Wrong!!!

You are quoting from an item in the appendix to show what objective universalists believe.

He is not a universalist.

See his article at his website titled "Universalism: Forms and Fallacies."

From the conclusion of that article: "The foregoing explanations of the fallacies of universalistic thought in general evidence how such thought violates every major doctrine of the core foundational truths of orthodox Christianity. This is indeed the reason why "universalism” ”“ the teaching that all men, without exception, will be included among the saved in the presence of God in heaven forever ”“ was deemed heretical by the early church and throughout church history. In particular we have noted the philosophical fallacy that approaches God and Christian theology from a mechanical-logical paradigm of thought encasing divine action in necessity, rather than from the revelatory perspective of God’s Self-revelation of the living dynamic of His own Being in the action of His Son, Jesus Christ. Though our critical evaluation of universalism has been primarily philosophical and theological, it can be thoroughly documented that legitimate scriptural exegesis supports the theological perspective we have taken. The proof-texts utilized by universalistic teachers are exegetically unsupportable, for their interpretations fail to take into account the immediate context of the verses they cite, as well as the greater context of the whole of scripture, and the entire tenor of the gospel of grace."

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/universalism.html

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

You got it right NDY.

These are his words and his own beliefs that he is presenting in these passage that you quoted from his book. As an Objective Universalist he misinterprets and twists the scriptures to say what he wants them to say, introducing a false gospel
and ultimately a false God, No hell and all will be saved is the core lie he presents.

"Do evangelicals believe in the Triune God who revealed Himself in the Son, Jesus Christ, who by His objective-universal "finished work” has accomplished and continues to implement everything necessary for the restoration of humanity? "

It is a distinctive of evangelicalism to emphasize belief in the Bible, elevating the book and its literalistic interpretation to a place of saving importance in a Biblicism that verges on Bibliolatry.

Those who neglect or deny the "objective-universal” foundation of what God has done in Christ for ALL men are in grave danger of building their thought-edifice on the shifting sands of subjectivity, with an undue emphasis on human action rather than God’s actions.

”“ when we fail to affirm that the "objective-universal” acts of God in the "finished work” of Jesus Christ have effected everything necessary for the salvation of mankind

‘’’''and has given Himself entirely "once and for all” to take the death consequences of our sin and to provide His divine Life to ALL mankind.

"Since all human persons are "spirit-beings” with the "inner light” deep inside, the need amongst men is simply to become aware of their common enlightenment.

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

Once again-

NDY's post is not Jim Fowler's belief. He is quoting what someone else believes, namely the blogger on the Evangelical Calvinist. Jim Fowler is COUNTERING those quotes. He is not their author. Good Grief!

I linked to the actual article in that blog so you can see for yourself.

https://growrag.wordpress.com/2012/09/06/a-second-response-to-jim-fowler-ec-theological-exegesis-and-dialectic/

NDY conveniently left out the preface of what Jim Fowler wrote which belongs BEFORE the long list of statements NDY has wrongly attributed to Fowler.

Here is the preface:

"But I must go on to explain that the EvangelicalCalvinists” don’t stop there. They go beyond the list that we considered earlier (cf. Addendum F), and they include additional affirmations of the "objective/universal” implications of the life and work of Jesus Christ. For example, they might state that (cf. Addendum P and Q)166..."

its right in the above link. read it for yourselves.

What y'all are doing is disgraceful.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

Read pages 14-14 for Objective-universal doctrine that Fouler is presenting as HIS own doctrines and tell me that this is even remotely orthodox Christ belief.
How can anyone who is a genuine Christian believe this ?

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

Todd

The actual source material is this.

http://www.christinyou.net/pages/pdfs/ExtentEfficacyEbook.pdf

In this he sets forth his own false doctrines and not quoting someone else.
Just read from page 14 to 52 as he pontificates his Objective-universal doctrine heresy clearly.
No hell, all will be saved etc

T
TMK Jun 21, 2016

Rev:

Surely you can understand that that section of the book is **refuting** universalism? He is simply laying out what the universalists arguments are. It is hard to arrgue against something in written form unless you lay out what you are arguing against.

For example, if I am going to argue against mormonism i would first need to lay out what mormons believe.

When I lay out what mormons believe, should I be accused of heresy?

Start reading the book at p. 146 and you will see your error. He is refuting, not endorsing, universalism.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

TMK, they are blinded by their rage and that is why they don't take the time to understand what Jim is saying. They think they found something that serves their purposes. I have been reading Jim for years and have found nothing where he deviates from traditional Christian belief. Since I have read his work, I will save everyone some time: He refutes universalism.

If these objections and accusations were coming from anyone else than these two, I might take them seriously. Consider the source and the motives. You are smart to double-check their quotes.

sermonindex Jun 21, 2016

Saints,

we ask that there is no name-calling, slandering or speaking against the character of brethren on this forum. If you strongly disagree with something at times if you do not have the love of God with you then it is better not to post if you cannot do it with meekness, love, gentleness, patience and self-control.

Galatians 5:22 New International Version (NIV)

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,


What can we learn from these things and apply them to our personal lives, how can we humble ourselves before God and men. How can we pray for others from what we read instead of jabbing back with a comment. Saints, our conversation must be mixed with faith and salt and spoken from a broken heart of love.

R
RogerB Jun 22, 2016

The end time battle is Jacob vs Esau. Esau's religion against Jacob's.

Esau is obviously the anti-christ religion. Esau desires to be what God has ordained and at the same time realizes he can never have what he really desires. Esau longs to be in Isaac's bosom receiving the blessing. Even after he takes over Jerusalem and sits in the temple of God, he knows deep inside that he doesn't have what he yearns for; the blessing missed out on long ago. As he sits there with his crown on he knows it belongs to another. The real power is not there. I believe that realization is the cause of the trouble in the end we see as Jacob's trouble.

Nation against Nation; Jacob against Esau. Esau always nipping at Jacob. Why are the Jews Jacob? They have never wrestled with God. There are many Jacobs who attend church. They still are of the world. They lie, cheat and steal. They haven't become Israel.

When Christ returns he deals with Esau. The Jews see this and will wrestle with God at last.

Obadiah 1:21 Saviors, (deliverers, or even the 2 witnesses) will ascend Mt Zion to judge Mt Esau.... What's Mt Esau doing on MT Zion?

Yes Esau has taken over Mt Zion at the end. When the Pope sat in the upper room with his companions, took communion, and put his crown on his head he was proclaiming Mt Zion as Mt Esau. We are at the end of the age.

The Pope spoke recently and in the audio clip , "When Josephs brothers began to starve from hunger, they went to Egypt to buy so they could eat. They had money, but couldn't eat the money. But they found something more than food, they found their brother. All of us have currency, the currency of culture, the currency of our history, We have a lot of cultural riches and religious riches, and we have a lot of diverse traditions. And we have to encounter one another as brothers. I am yearning that the separation comes to an end and gives us communion."

There is a big meeting coming in America in July and the Pope will be there. There is a big push for unity again. But it is not what believers need. It is poison. In the Popes message I quoted, it appears he is saying; "If you don't come and be united with me you won't eat" Is this something that lies ahead.

There are some awesome lessons in the Book of Genesis. Ever realized that Joseph being a type of Christ, carried away his brothers sins, they were hidden from the father...

I must give credit to a fellow believer who is witnessing to Jews today and operates a news site and also provided much of this text:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLpGqGDDADdlnDI9ZQY0Fs0sd_hwpEQBhP&v=5G3CdZu38_M

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