I ask for prayer related to the "Revival in Burlington, NC" thread in the "News and Current Events Discussion Forum". I responded to that post to talk about that revival. I do not know how to cut and paste it over here so I am asking those of you who will pray to go to my post in that Discussion Forum to read it.
Thank you more than I can say!
Grace and mercy to you all!
In Him...Judy
I am thrilled and honored to pray, Judy!! It's beyond my comprehension, but I've been praying for revival to come to the Chicago area....now that would truly be a miracle!! May you see Jesus....
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you! I am so excited I might not sleep tonight knowing I'm going on a test run over there tomorrow! My steps are ordered and I know it! He wants me to be a part of something and I can hardly wait to see what it will be. I know it's not about me because His greatness and magnificent splendor will break forth for all to see! I wish you could go with me!
In Him...Judy
Are you able to go to the revival meetings, Judy? Pls let us know if you need continued prayer
amen sister, may God bless you as you seek Him. Please do share back on the meeting.
Judy
If you wish God to know that you are serious, you must put right every single thing that is in your life that He does not approve of. Ask Him for clarifiaction and He will give it.
Will pray for you Judy and that God move mightily in N.C.
People are hungry and thirsty for Jesus. May you be refreshed and restored in our beloved Christ.
Brenda: your advice is not sound nor good to Judy. Not interested in arguing with you. May the Lord release you from all false burdens and not bring sheep or lambs to an impossible crevice and say, "Now jump in your own strength."
The Holy Spirit brings conviction and we are not to lay heavy burdens on believers. Jesus said 'My yoke is easy, my burden is light. "
L
Leslie
Your view might be the popular one today, but in the past such as during the Welsh revivals, this was the advice given by Evan Roberts and the advice from others before him.
Repentance involves turning from all known sins then we can await the power and strength to revive us .
Hi Brenda. Glad you mentioned Evan Roberts. His life is a wonderful study. It can be especially relevant within the given context of your advice in this thread.
Ever wonder what caused him to finally collapse with exhaustion and spend the remainder of his life in depression?
Hello Paul
Good to see you posting.
A very good question. Of course a lot of folk blame Jessie Penn-Lewis but provide no substantiative evidence so it is just hearsay and l don't believe it.
From my own observation of the revival state, it is extremely hard to resist the temptation to go beyond the limits our physical and mental state present for us and any weakness makes it doubly hard to keep good discernment in times of extreme pressure on us to perform the ministry we have been given and take on more than our portion of the work.
Whether Roberts was misled by others or whether he refused counsel to slow down, l guess we will never know but operating at that level of ministry in revival leaves us very vulnerable to the devises of Satan, as we see even in the apostles so the best we can do is to take heed and learn from them, all the while taking care that we do not fall into the trap of thinking we would be better than they.
Why he was not able to recuperate, we can only guess.
Paul West wrote:
"Ever wonder what caused him to finally collapse with exhaustion and spend the remainder of his life in depression"
He got mixed up with the heresies of Jessie Penn Lewis and she was effectively used by satan to shut him down. Sad story really.
That may be, but my interest is fixated rather in what caused his initial breakdown, before JPL came on the scene. Every effective minister of the Lord experiences stress and burn-out at some stage. But they can usually get through it, take an extended sabbatical, a furlough. But life-lasting depression is something else altogether.
Isn't it probable that the burden of the theology he held to (the same brand of advice offered up in this thread, btw) may have been the precipitating factor of his initial collapse and depression?
Paul
You can read this from a baptist perspective of Roberts religious background that heavily influenced his later breakdown.
http://faithsaves.net/evan-roberts/
Here is small exerpt
"Concerning one vision, Evan testified: "For the space of four hours I was privileged to speak face to face with Him as a man speaks face to face with a friend,” a privilege Moses alone had among the Old Testament prophets (Exodus 33:11; Numbers 12:8). However, Evan’s visions went beyond even what Moses experienced. The Bible states that nobody has seen God the Father at any time, but only the Son of God has been seen (John 1:18), but Roberts claimed to regularly see "God the Father Almighty . . . and the Holy Spirit,” rather than only "Jesus Christ” as did the prophets of the Bible;[69] his experiences were comparable to those of Teresa of Avila, who likewise claimed she conversed with God the Father rather than Jesus Christ.[70]
Indeed, Roberts testified: "I . . . sp[oke] face to face with Him [the Father] as a man speaks face to face with a friend” for "hours” every night "for three or four months,” and then "again retur[ned] to earth.”[71] Unless Evan Roberts was a false prophet and under Satanic delusion, a greater than Moses was here, and so the possibility that "Roberts [was] . . . intending to set” a "notebook” with his writings "beside the writings of the New Testament” as a record of inspired revelations is explicable.[72] At times "a tremor ran through him, and his face and neck were observed to quiver in a remarkable way.”[73] His work in the Welsh holiness revival teemed with "experiences of visions, voices, and ecstasies.”[74] "His bodily agitations were awful to behold. They filled the hearts of children with fear, bewildered and astounded men of mature years, and caused hysterical women to faint.”[75] On at least one occasion he records
in his diary: "I was commanded not to read my Bible”[76] for an entire day by a voice.[77] It was not necessary, however, for Roberts to get guidance by searching the Scriptures, for he "adopted the practice of writing down a problem, placing the paper on to an open Bible and leaving the room for the Holy Spirit to write down an answer,”[78] and in this way he could get solutions to his problems."
I don't think that his theology had much to do with apart from it making him more likely to have to endure satanic attack, which you would expect if it was the truth.
Other ministers with the same theology like George Fox, Finney, Duncan Campbell, and indeed JPL did not collapse with lifelong depression. I think that Evans displayed a weakness prior to the revival. Will try to remember what l read that made me cone to that conclusion.
Thanks for the link Rev. I'll definitely read it.
Brenda, obviously not everyone who embraces error succumbs to its effects, in the same way that not everyone who smokes develops lung cancer. But they can pass the secondhand smoke over to others who can get cancer.
We serve an amazing God who uses people despite their misgivings and errors in judgment and knowledge. A great example is to be found in His usage to awaken revival through Whitefield and later Finney. You really couldn't get more diametrically-opposed theologically between those two guys! Yet both were used mightily and neither collapsed in their respective convictions.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I tend to see their theology typified as branches shooting off a common trunk, which is Christ. One branch may become more flimsy than the other the further it extends out, though both start off thick nearest to the trunk. As a believer walks and advances, it all becomes a matter of weight. Can the theology of one accommodate the weight of life with its trials and hardship as effectively as the other?
For some, yes. But for others, no. Some have gone out from the tree as far as they could and now sense the branch in which they trusted bending beneath their weight.
Rather than telling them to go out further on the same limb and hang on to the leaves, perhaps a change of branch is in order?
Just speaking from personal experience here, I can attest to what Paul is saying here,
[QUOTE/]Isn't it probable that the burden of the theology he held to (the same brand of advice offered up in this thread, btw) may have been the precipitating factor of his initial collapse and depression?
In my experience, it's very probable, and I wouldn't be so inclined to think so unless it had happened to me. The darkness and heavy burden that that type of teaching and theology can lead to can be very spiritually devastating. I'm not a great one for being able to expound on why or how, all I know that it has the tendency to sound very scriptural, but it's just enough "off" to also have the tendency to eventually ruin your spiritual walk, steal your song, and convince you to give up. I'm so grateful to have since found solid ground in the plain n simple truth of God's word.
Still, Robert Evans has always been one of my spiritual heroes. I learned so, so much from his writings in my early conversion days.
savedtoserve said:
"The darkness and heavy burden that that type of teaching and theology can lead to can be very spiritually devastating. I'm not a great one for being able to expound on why or how, all I know that it has the tendency to sound very scriptural, but it's just enough "off" to also have the tendency to eventually ruin your spiritual walk, steal your song, and convince you to give up. I'm so grateful to have since found solid ground in the plain n simple truth of God's word."
Thats a very good point. A little leaven dropped into a proud heart, a little poison inserted into a rebellious spirit and pretty soon you have the mixture that satan uses to deceive, delude, depress vex and oppress.
Can happen to anyone unless we truly come before the Lord frequently and allow him beak up the crusted veneer that can come over our hearts.
I can attest to the truth that Paul has outlined, in the increasing inability of a false theological system when the rubber hits the road in severe trials, regarding my own foray into Reformed theology. In fact l would have lost my faith, like others l later discovered, had l not stopped listening to what men said the Bible says, and let it speak for itself.
I then discovered that struggling in the flesh leads to a heavy burden on the back and increasing disillusionment but sanctification by faith alone and thereby in an instant, which is what Evans lived and taught, is what gave me my freedom.
However l have heard of many who have had their faith shipwrecked by that teaching, and if course we would expect Satan to be very active in the area which rather proves it's truthfulness rather than the opposite.
Totally agree with you about the freedom that comes in an instant when it is understood by faith alone that Christ is your sanctification. Also agree with you about the field day the powers of darkness have in shipwrecking believers' faith in this area.
I have tremendous sympathy for those who love God but have had their faith hijacked by a burdensome system of performance-based sanctification. To see those flimsy limbs bending beneath their weight, as they clutch at leaves, dreading a fall. The yoke was supposed to be easy, the burden light. This doesn't mean that our trials are light, or that we can downplay our hardships -- but that the branch we stand on is strong and our footing is sure no matter how heavy the weight is put upon us.
Amen Paul.
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